Popping, creaking, clicking when steering

[danredtj]

@AndyG The steering box was snug before I replaced it, and is definitely snug after

Isolators are there and in good condition. I'll fondle the spring and shock on that side to see how prominent the noise is on them, but it definitely seems to be loudest well forward of them (I know, noise will travel through metal).

@SoCalTJ Good thought, but no I think that's just the funky angle:

No shiny metal on either the spring or the knuckle.

 

[AndyG]

I would have somebody turn the wheel back and forth and selectively spray WD-40 on each connection and as quick as it stops - focus on that

That is provided the dry steering test does not show you anything

I’ve been through the same thing and it is just amazing how exposed to everything is- And how elusive these can be

 

[danredtj]

Yeah, dry steering (jeep running) is how I've been reproducing the noise. My wife and I are both rather sick of it Can't see anything moving (that shouldn't be) and the things that do move seem to be smooth (i.e. no visible hopping or binding). I can try squirting lube on everything I guess, that's a good idea. I dunno where to start since I have no suspects, but I guess maybe the lower steering U-joint.

The noise seems loudest at/above the steering box, so my plan for today was to take my front bumper (and winch/plate) off to look at the end of the frame and cross-tube there. I was thinking maybe a cracked weld or maybe even some rock wedged up in there could be causing the noise where it is. Is that that crazy?

I definitely appreciate the moral support about this being a thing and hard to track down. I started down this path to make sure I wasn't heading towards a steering box failure in a string of upcoming summer offroad events. Once I ruled that out, I felt pretty confident that it wasn't something major about to fail (unless it's a weld I can't find). But now that I'm ass-deep in it, I feel compelled to make the noise stop

 

[CharlesHS]

When you stated you checked for cracks in welds; did you check the inner frame rail where the steering box bolts onto ?
You may not see the crack until force is exerted on the area.
Observation from picture; the drivers side front coil spring does not appear to be oriented properly (lower coil is not seated in the detent).

 

[danredtj]

When you stated you checked for cracks in welds; did you check the inner frame rail where the steering box bolts onto ?
You may not see the crack until force is exerted on the area.

Yeah, that's what I'm looking for, and yeah, while my wife is dry steering. I think taking the bumper off will get me better visibility in there. I was just guessing about cracked welds because that's my only thought of what could be moving that shouldn't be. Is that a common place for that problem?

Observation from picture; the drivers side front coil spring does not appear to be oriented properly (lower coil is not seated in the detent).

Yep, didn't notice until the comment about it looking too close to the knuckle. Will fix

 

[CharlesHS]

Yeah, that's what I'm looking for, and yeah, while my wife is dry steering. I think taking the bumper off will get me better visibility in there. I was just guessing about cracked welds because that's my only thought of what could be moving that shouldn't be. Is that a common place for that problem?



Yep, didn't notice until the comment about it looking too close to the knuckle. Will fix

Cracks can occur in numerous places on the frame. The steering box area can have problems with the steering box bolt sleeve welds that bolts transit thru can crack due to a poor factory welds or loose steering box bolts. IIRC the steering box bolts torque is around 70 ft lbs.

 

[SoCalTJ]

Cracks can occur in numerous places on the frame. The steering box area can have problems with the steering box bolt sleeve welds that bolts transit thru can crack due to a poor factory welds or loose steering box bolts. IIRC the steering box bolts torque is around 70 ft lbs.

Correct on the 70ft lbs torque. I just replaced mine last week.

 

[AndyG]

Every post on here is beneficial and I know what you mean.... You’re a man on a mission now.

One of the first steps to making these things nice is to eliminate noises...And you’re usually eliminating unnecessary movement which is beneficial.

The most counter force against the axle moving is the track bar- And even control arm bushings can be at play.

Keep us posted -we will appreciate learning what you learn

 

[danredtj]

Thanks @AndyG for the kind words. I hope to read them over and over as I'm licking my wounds tonight. Root cause analysis follows.

I removed the bumper and winch to get a better view of the front and top of the steering box, mounts, and frame. Once I did, the noise moved decidedly back towards the axle. My thought is that the bumper was basically acting like a resonator or tuning fork of sorts, becoming the thing that wanted to "sing" the most. Once that was gone, I was able to trace the noise back. Unfortunately (for my ego and the people here whose time I wasted) I found it pretty quick, and it was the #1 thing to check: the frame-side trackbar mount. Even though I had put my hand on it several times while reproducing the noise, even though I had watched it with multiple lights many many times, even though I had checked the torque, this time I spotted just the tiniest bit of movement as the noise manifested.

I broke out the torque wrench again, looked up the torque on the sheet, and checked.. Yep, 60 ft-lbs easy. I sat back, thought WTF, followed by OMG. I pulled up the torque sheet for the RE track bar and... 115 ft-lbs. Dialed up the BFTW and got at least 1/8th of a turn out of it before the torque click. Sure enough, noise gone.

So, I'm obviously very happy to have it gone, but I feel pretty stupid. Like the classic ripping apart the car only to figure out that it was coins in the coin tray rattling. I replaced the steering gear, tore apart all my front lights, winch, etc all for nothing, and of course, aired all my embarrassment here for the audience. At least I've got fresh fluid in my power steering system now.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback here, sorry for the goose chase.

 

[SoCalTJ]

Thanks @AndyG for the kind words. I hope to read them over and over as I'm licking my wounds tonight. Root cause analysis follows.

I removed the bumper and winch to get a better view of the front and top of the steering box, mounts, and frame. Once I did, the noise moved decidedly back towards the axle. My thought is that the bumper was basically acting like a resonator or tuning fork of sorts, becoming the thing that wanted to "sing" the most. Once that was gone, I was able to trace the noise back. Unfortunately (for my ego and the people here whose time I wasted) I found it pretty quick, and it was the #1 thing to check: the frame-side trackbar mount. Even though I had put my hand on it several times while reproducing the noise, even though I had watched it with multiple lights many many times, even though I had checked the torque, this time I spotted just the tiniest bit of movement as the noise manifested.

I broke out the torque wrench again, looked up the torque on the sheet, and checked.. Yep, 60 ft-lbs easy. I sat back, thought WTF, followed by OMG. I pulled up the torque sheet for the RE track bar and... 115 ft-lbs. Dialed up the BFTR and got at least 1/8th of a turn out of it before the torque click. Sure enough, noise gone.

So, I'm obviously very happy to have it gone, but I feel pretty stupid. Like the classic ripping apart the car only to figure out that it was coins in the coin tray rattling. I replaced the steering gear, tore apart all my front lights, winch, etc all for nothing, and of course, aired all my embarrassment here for the audience. At least I've got fresh fluid in my power steering system now.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback here, sorry for the goose chase.

Hey, we’ve all been there. Glad you found it!

 

[AndyG]

Thanks @AndyG for the kind words. I hope to read them over and over as I'm licking my wounds tonight. Root cause analysis follows.

I removed the bumper and winch to get a better view of the front and top of the steering box, mounts, and frame. Once I did, the noise moved decidedly back towards the axle. My thought is that the bumper was basically acting like a resonator or tuning fork of sorts, becoming the thing that wanted to "sing" the most. Once that was gone, I was able to trace the noise back. Unfortunately (for my ego and the people here whose time I wasted) I found it pretty quick, and it was the #1 thing to check: the frame-side trackbar mount. Even though I had put my hand on it several times while reproducing the noise, even though I had watched it with multiple lights many many times, even though I had checked the torque, this time I spotted just the tiniest bit of movement as the noise manifested.

I broke out the torque wrench again, looked up the torque on the sheet, and checked.. Yep, 60 ft-lbs easy. I sat back, thought WTF, followed by OMG. I pulled up the torque sheet for the RE track bar and... 115 ft-lbs. Dialed up the BFTR and got at least 1/8th of a turn out of it before the torque click. Sure enough, noise gone.

So, I'm obviously very happy to have it gone, but I feel pretty stupid. Like the classic ripping apart the car only to figure out that it was coins in the coin tray rattling. I replaced the steering gear, tore apart all my front lights, winch, etc all for nothing, and of course, aired all my embarrassment here for the audience. At least I've got fresh fluid in my power steering system now.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback here, sorry for the goose chase.

We ‘ve been on many , as long as no ducks get involved we are ok