Return to Center Advice

Yeah, I get it’s a tough one. Yes, I’ve pulled the stabilizer and checked that too. Nothing has made much difference at all.

I’ll try the u-joints and ball joints and see if that gets me anywhere. If not, I suppose I’m back to the reman box may be too tight.
I don't suppose you still have the OE tie rods and such that were replaced with the ZJ parts? It seems to be the only thing you haven't done yet... If you still have them or access to OE without spending all the money, as highly doubtful as it seems to be, it might be worth a shot???
 
I don't suppose you still have the OE tie rods and such that were replaced with the ZJ parts? It seems to be the only thing you haven't done yet... If you still have them or access to OE without spending all the money, as highly doubtful as it seems to be, it might be worth a shot???
I do have them, and I had that thought as well. Might be worth a shot.
 
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Just a shot in the dark (as I'm not even sure if what I'm thinking makes sense) but is it possible the pitman arm is mis-placed on the steering gear shaft by a notch or two in one direction or another? I have never had one off so I'm not sure but maybe the 11:30 position it returns to is actually 12:00. :unsure: Which, in turn, would require a complete realignment from the steering wheel down through the drag link and tie rod ends? I'f my idea is completely impossible or irrelevant, disregard.
 
Just a shot in the dark (as I'm not even sure if what I'm thinking makes sense) but is it possible the pitman arm is mis-placed on the steering gear shaft by a notch or two in one direction or another? I have never had one off so I'm not sure but maybe the 11:30 position it returns to is actually 12:00. :unsure: Which, in turn, would require a complete realignment from the steering wheel down through the drag link and tie rod ends? I'f my idea is completely impossible or irrelevant, disregard.
I appreciate the out of the box thinking, but if I remember correctly, there is a flat spot on the inside of the pitman arm that aligns with a flat spot on the steering box output shaft. Only one way to slide it on.
 
The pitman has a specific alignment to fit the box's splines, but I appreciate good 'out of the box' thinking. We're all scratching the noggin on this one. At this point there is really no bad ideas.
 
Again, have you tried to re-adjust the caster a bit more? I would go as far as I could until the driveshaft complains. And if at that point you still have poor return then it seems the box is the only thing left.
 
Again, have you tried to re-adjust the caster a bit more? I would go as far as I could until the driveshaft complains. And if at that point you still have poor return then it seems the box is the only thing left.
I don't have adjustable control arms, just cam bolts. I had caster maxed out as much as those bolts would allow and it didn't solve the issue.

I ordered front axle u-joints, and I'll get those on and see if it helps.
 
I don't have adjustable control arms, just cam bolts. I had caster maxed out as much as those bolts would allow and it didn't solve the issue.

I ordered front axle u-joints, and I'll get those on and see if it helps.
Just out of blind curiosity, is this your first TJ?

As for the issue at hand,
I keep looking over your alignment sheet and although the angles that have a specified spec range are "within spec" camber is a little on the low side as is caster. SAI and caster work together to affect return to center. I have been trying to find actual specs for SAI and IA, but I haven't been able to find any. One person I have not seen chime in who is Most likely the best one to address SAI and IA and the role they play would be @mrblaine. I could be wholly off target in my theory so maybe he can offer up his expertise.
 
Just out of blind curiosity, is this your first TJ?

As for the issue at hand,
I keep looking over your alignment sheet and although the angles that have a specified spec range are "within spec" camber is a little on the low side as is caster. SAI and caster work together to affect return to center. I have been trying to find actual specs for SAI and IA, but I haven't been able to find any. One person I have not seen chime in who is Most likely the best one to address SAI and IA and the role they play would be @mrblaine. I could be wholly off target in my theory so maybe he can offer up his expertise.
Yes, this is my first TJ...am I giving myself away with dumb questions?

I'll be curious what the consensus is on the alignment data.
 
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Yes, this is my first TJ...am I giving myself away with dumb questions?

I'll be curious what the consensus is on the alignment data.
Thus far I haven't considered any of your questions to be "dumb" or unjustified. We're all here to help when we can and learn from others when the need arises.

I was just wondering if you were comparing the return to center on your TJ to a vehicle with a similar steering set up. Solid axle steering isn't exactly known for having the best road manners or steering characteristics. It might be that you are expecting more than what is normal for a TJ.
 
Just out of blind curiosity, is this your first TJ?

As for the issue at hand,
I keep looking over your alignment sheet and although the angles that have a specified spec range are "within spec" camber is a little on the low side as is caster. SAI and caster work together to affect return to center. I have been trying to find actual specs for SAI and IA, but I haven't been able to find any. One person I have not seen chime in who is Most likely the best one to address SAI and IA and the role they play would be @mrblaine. I could be wholly off target in my theory so maybe he can offer up his expertise.
I read the first post and moved on because I don't know of any TJ that fully returns to center, nor do I recommend that as a test to see if it goes back to 0.
 
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I read the first post and moved on because I don't know of any TJ that fully returns to center, nor do I recommend that as a test to see if it goes back to 0.
That wasn't exactly the answer to my question but it did pretty much speak to my last thoughts posed to the OP.
Thank you!
 
I've certainly considered that my expectations are too high. I have a neighbor with a similarly buily TJ, I'll ask to take it around the block and compare. Thanks guys.
 
I've certainly considered that my expectations are too high. I have a neighbor with a similarly buily TJ, I'll ask to take it around the block and compare. Thanks guys.
Once you become this focused on something, it will be hard to figure out what is normal. Ignore the RTC issue and just go drive it. If there is an issue, that is when it will show up and be easier to spot.
 
Once you become this focused on something, it will be hard to figure out what is normal. Ignore the RTC issue and just go drive it. If there is an issue, that is when it will show up and be easier to spot.
Yes, I have a tendancy to to fixate on things that bother me; I do enjoy the hell out of the Jeep otherwise though.

Incidentally, I drove my neighbors TJ last night and I can confirm I'm not crazy (at least not about this). His returns to center much better than mine, although not all the way to 12:00, which is likely normal TJ behavior. I'll report back if I ever find an issue.
 
If/when you replace your front control arms be sure to get (at least) adjustable upper arms. Double adjustable may be better for you. That way you can adjust the caster easily without having to drop the arms to try a different angle.
 
Finishing up my old thread here in case anyone else runs across this same issue. I finally figured out the problem. Along with the changes noted earlier in the thread, I also replaced the ball joints, axle u-joints, lower steering shaft and both power steering lines with essentially no changes to my issue.

The more I drove it, the more I realized it was not just poor return to center but just overly tight steering in general. Then, I ran across a thread on here about something else and @Chris mentioned something about the bearing on the steering column being somewhat fragile, so I figured it was worth a shot. I ordered a nice used one from eBay.

When I had them both on the bench, I could spin each and compare. The new one spun easily with no binding, and the one I pulled off spun like it was filled with grime and gravel and bound in multiple places. Switched it out and now it steers really smooth and the tightness is gone, left with normal steering. Finally.

Thanks to the forum once again.
 
Finishing up my old thread here in case anyone else runs across this same issue. I finally figured out the problem. Along with the changes noted earlier in the thread, I also replaced the ball joints, axle u-joints, lower steering shaft and both power steering lines with essentially no changes to my issue.

The more I drove it, the more I realized it was not just poor return to center but just overly tight steering in general. Then, I ran across a thread on here about something else and @Chris mentioned something about the bearing on the steering column being somewhat fragile, so I figured it was worth a shot. I ordered a nice used one from eBay.

When I had them both on the bench, I could spin each and compare. The new one spun easily with no binding, and the one I pulled off spun like it was filled with grime and gravel and bound in multiple places. Switched it out and now it steers really smooth and the tightness is gone, left with normal steering. Finally.

Thanks to the forum once again.

Glad you figured it out. I have had a jeep with snappy BMW like return to center, after I axle swapped it went to the dump. I am in the same boat as you were. the only point of play for me when off and parked is box, not shaft or linkage. So far I have this cracked in my shaft, don't know how long or how it effects the steering or the name of it. Adjusting caster even more tomorrow. Had 15 15/16 inch LCA now at 16.75 inch eye to eye not much improvement but less vibration on highway speeds, also rear driveshaft disconnected. gonna try more tire psi, more caster, then toe in/redo/center steering alignment

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