Rock Sliders / Rocker Guards Guide

[mrblaine]

That's going way way back in time! I never knew to look for those back then.

Some unique at the time parts on that rig since Jon knew lots of folks in the industry. Nth Degree suck down winch bumper. Nth Degree tub rails. First set of GR steel high line fenders that we built on the rig to get both sides perfectly parallel to each other. First set of mini boatsides. First set of GR raised frame side body mounts.

 

[PNW_LJ]

I've been playing around with my rudimentary CAD and it has raised a question in my mind about the Savvy sliders I can't quite answer with certainty from the pictures I have seen of them.

One of the advantages quoted is that they have two 45 degree bends, rather than a sharp 90 degree bend. The aluminium part is made of 3/16" 6061T6, my understanding is the recommended minium bend radius for that is 4.5x thickness, so for 3/16" that would be an internal radius of 27/32". When I measure the drop between the bottom of the side of the body to the underside of the torque box it is a very similar distance to that radius (I actually make it slightly less, but my measurements may not be 100% accurate). That would imply that there is not enough room to form a 45 degree bend, run a flat section and then form a second 45 degree bend - unless I am missing something there is just about enough room to form a 90 degree bend. From the picture above it looks like a 90 degree bend in the aluminium - but I have learnt that the angle pictures are taken at can mean you misread them.

Again from the picture above it is clear that the steel section that attaches to the aluminium does have a 45 degree bend with a flat section then another 45 degree bend. This makes sense as my understanding is the steel can be bent more sharply than the aluminium (is there a minimum bend radius for mild steel?).

When people refer to the two 45 degree bends being a benefit of the Savvy sliders, are they referring to the steel section rather than the aluminium?

Yes, they are referring to the steel section.

There would be no way for the slider base to have 2 x 45-degree bends without changing material and requiring bending of the tub pinch seam a la mini-boatside.

 

[jjvw]

I've been playing around with my rudimentary CAD and it has raised a question in my mind about the Savvy sliders I can't quite answer with certainty from the pictures I have seen of them.

One of the advantages quoted is that they have two 45 degree bends, rather than a sharp 90 degree bend. The aluminium part is made of 3/16" 6061T6, my understanding is the recommended minium bend radius for that is 4.5x thickness, so for 3/16" that would be an internal radius of 27/32". When I measure the drop between the bottom of the side of the body to the underside of the torque box it is a very similar distance to that radius (I actually make it slightly less, but my measurements may not be 100% accurate). That would imply that there is not enough room to form a 45 degree bend, run a flat section and then form a second 45 degree bend - unless I am missing something there is just about enough room to form a 90 degree bend. From the picture above it looks like a 90 degree bend in the aluminium - but I have learnt that the angle pictures are taken at can mean you misread them.

Again from the picture above it is clear that the steel section that attaches to the aluminium does have a 45 degree bend with a flat section then another 45 degree bend. This makes sense as my understanding is the steel can be bent more sharply than the aluminium (is there a minimum bend radius for mild steel?).

When people refer to the two 45 degree bends being a benefit of the Savvy sliders, are they referring to the steel section rather than the aluminium?

While the DIY mini boatside does have two bends, neither one is 45 degrees. You really need to start with the cardboard template I showed a bit earlier. From there, you can take measurements of what you need to build into and design the material to fit.

I have a couple early iterations of the boatsides that I planned to make out of aluminum with a steel overlay skin similar in spirit to Savvy. What I eventually realized was that the 6061t6 minimum bend radius consumed ground clearance. Then trying to add the steel skin to fit tight over the aluminum was fussy and heavy.

It wasn't worth the difficulty and all reasonable design paths led to steel. It was a very enjoyable and educational process to go through.

 

[sourbluff]

I DO!!!

Where do I place my sticker order and where do I send shipping label to cover 100 lb package?

 

[UKTJ]

While the DIY mini boatside does have two bends, neither one is 45 degrees. You really need to start with the cardboard template I showed a bit earlier. From there, you can take measurements of what you need to build into and design the material to fit.

I have a couple early iterations of the boatsides that I planned to make out of aluminum with a steel overlay skin similar in spirit to Savvy. What I eventually realized was that the 6061t6 minimum bend radius consumed ground clearance. Then trying to add the steel skin to fit tight over the aluminum was fussy and heavy.

It wasn't worth the difficulty and all reasonable design paths led to steel. It was a very enjoyable and educational process to go through.

I agree, even my rudimentary thought process has been interesting and informative so far.

Yes, the reference to 45 degrees comes from the comments on the Savvy sliders, as that second 'rail' is not fitted to the body I guess one could choose any reasonable angles, but as you say, fitting close to the Jeep requires following the angles that already exist.

At the moment I am probably shying away from the mini boatside approach, the type of locations I am offroad in are rarely those where a fraction of an inch of clearance around the rockers is the factor that determines getting through or not. And bending the pinch seams up would be a 'never going back' option that I'm not convinced I'm ready for.

I'm also pondering the strength versus weight question. I don't typically find myself in rocks - it can be the case in a few places here, but not many. But as the folds in my fenders make clear a bad decision close to a tree can cause issues. Aluminium appeals, but the flip side is that the secondary steel section on the Savvy style approach is of necessity larger than the rub rail on the mini boat sides. But overall the Savvy approach is about 20lbs less and if I am not going mini boatside maybe that 20lbs is worth saving. Still mulling it over though.

 

[chudlet]

Hey folks, my CavFab sliders showed up this week and I am gathering tools, bits and pieces to install. Got an extra 5/16 nutsert pack coming from BMB for additional connection points. I have some 1/8" sheet steel I can cut a couple backer plates from and some scrap in the pile for spacer material. I have questions on the hole sizes.

For body holes that just get a 5/16 th nut and bolt then a standard 3/8 bit or Rota Broach or spotweld cutter?

For body holes that are getting a 5/16 nutsert, what size hole do I need to make, and which is the better cutting tool for that purpose? I am thinking 7/16" because @bluescapegoat used a 3/8 spot weld cutter -> step bit -> 7/16 bit but in the BFH video @hosejockey61 likes the Rota Broach,

I did find 3 packs of both 3/8ths and 7/16th Blair Rota Broach on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0093U4V0S/?tag=wranglerorg-20 I would assume and hope they come with a centering pin of some sort? Guidance and suggestions are appreciated.

 

[bluescapegoat]

Hey folks, my CavFab sliders showed up this week and I am gathering tools, bits and pieces to install. Got an extra 5/16 nutsert pack coming from BMB for additional connection points. I have some 1/8" sheet steel I can cut a couple backer plates from and some scrap in the pile for spacer material. I have questions on the hole sizes.

For body holes that just get a 5/16 th nut and bolt then a standard 3/8 bit or Rota Broach or spotweld cutter?

For body holes that are getting a 5/16 nutsert, what size hole do I need to make, and which is the better cutting tool for that purpose? I am thinking 7/16" because @bluescapegoat used a 3/8 spot weld cutter -> step bit -> 7/16 bit but in the BFH video @hosejockey61 likes the Rota Broach,

I did find 3 packs of both 3/8ths and 7/16th Blair Rota Broach on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0093U4V0S/?tag=wranglerorg-20 I would assume and hope they come with a centering pin of some sort? Guidance and suggestions are appreciated.

This is why I wrote the post, it's partly to share with others and partly because I won't remember how I did it.

If you go back to my post here I list what I used. The 3/8" spotweld cutter (aka rotabroach) works well for the bottom because the existing holes are 3/8" on the rail. So it allows you to get a perfectly centered hole. The rail itself, when clamped into place, is your guide. No "centering pin" or anything like that needed. In fact, remove the drill bit from the cutter (as I outlined.) Then after removing the rails I enlarged that hole in the tub to 17/32 (not 7/16) because that was the diameter of my 5/16-18 nutserts measured with a pair of calipers.

That doesn't mean that the CavFab rail design is the same as the ones I ordered, so some double checking and common sense is required. It will all make sense when you start doing it.

 

[JMT]

This^^^

 

[chudlet]

This is why I wrote the post, it's partly to share with others and partly because I won't remember how I did it.

If you go back to my post here I list what I used. The 3/8" spotweld cutter (aka rotabroach) works well for the bottom because the existing holes are 3/8" on the rail. So it allows you to get a perfectly centered hole. The rail itself, when clamped into place, is your guide. No "centering pin" or anything like that needed. In fact, remove the drill bit from the cutter (as I outlined.) Then after removing the rails I enlarged that hole in the tub to 17/32 (not 7/16) because that was the diameter of my 5/16-18 nutserts measured with a pair of calipers.

That doesn't mean that the CavFab rail design is the same as the ones I ordered, so some double checking and common sense is required. It will all make sense when you start doing it.

Right on, thanks for the quick reply. That helps to tie it together a bit better in my mind. Much appreciated.

I have seen it asked before, but I am not sure if I recall a good answer. Do you all put welting or a bead of silicone at the top edge of the slider to keep general crap out?

 

[bluescapegoat]

I haven't watched all of BFH's video but I just skimmed to the part where he talks about tools. Just to clear up any confusion, the spotweld cutter is essentially the same thing just with a spring loaded drill bit in the middle and only a 3/8" cutter. BFH's kit has multiple sized cutters and what seems to be a centering pin in the mandrel, which is good if you're drilling holes without a guide.

I had the spotweld cutter kit already for (drumroll)... cutting spot welds. I used it for replacing the floor in my Comanche. I might pick up the kit with the different sized cutters though, they really are pretty handy. So let your budget and use-case dictate what you need. The bigger kit is roughly double the price, I think. And doesn't come with spare 3/8 cutters. I actually just broke one of the 3/8 cutters earlier today impatiently mounting an engine skid.

Right on, thanks for the quick reply. That helps to tie it together a bit better in my mind. Much appreciated.

I have seen it asked before, but I am not sure if I recall a good answer. Do you all put welting or a bead of silicone at the top edge of the slider to keep general crap out?

I didn't.

 

[chudlet]

I haven't watched all of BFH's video but I just skimmed to the part where he talks about tools. Just to clear up any confusion, the spotweld cutter is essentially the same thing just with a spring loaded drill bit in the middle and only a 3/8" cutter. BFH's kit has multiple sized cutters and what seems to be a centering pin in the mandrel, which is good if you're drilling holes without a guide.

I had the spotweld cutter kit already for (drumroll)... cutting spot welds. I used it for replacing the floor in my Comanche. I might pick up the kit with the different sized cutters though, they really are pretty handy. So let your budget and use-case dictate what you need. The bigger kit is roughly double the price, I think. And doesn't come with spare 3/8 cutters. I actually just broke one of the 3/8 cutters earlier today impatiently mounting an engine skid.



I didn't.

Harbor Freight has a cheap 3/8 cutter for $5, might be just the ticket for a one job use. Otherwise there is a 3 pack of Blair Rota Broach on Amazon for $33.

 

[bluescapegoat]

Harbor Freight has a cheap 3/8 cutter for $5, might be just the ticket for a one job use. Otherwise there is a 3 pack of Blair Rota Broach on Amazon for $33.

That's the kit I have.

I don't go cheap out on cutting tools, it's a waste of time.

Again, depends on your budget I suppose.

 

[JMT]

Do you all put welting or a bead of silicone at the top edge of the slider to keep general crap out?

Some people add welting or something else. I’m one of the people that argued with Blaine about welting about 5 years ago. He was right. Don’t put anything. If there’s bare metal as a result of the holes you’ll drill for the nutserts, just paint over the edges before adding the nutserts. Everything should be fine. You really don’t want to change the thickness that welting causes because later if you add armor they won’t match up. You really don’t want the slider to have any way to move or compress either, and welting could permit that.

 

[jjvw]

Hey folks, my CavFab sliders showed up this week and I am gathering tools, bits and pieces to install. Got an extra 5/16 nutsert pack coming from BMB for additional connection points. I have some 1/8" sheet steel I can cut a couple backer plates from and some scrap in the pile for spacer material. I have questions on the hole sizes.

For body holes that just get a 5/16 th nut and bolt then a standard 3/8 bit or Rota Broach or spotweld cutter?

For body holes that are getting a 5/16 nutsert, what size hole do I need to make, and which is the better cutting tool for that purpose? I am thinking 7/16" because @bluescapegoat used a 3/8 spot weld cutter -> step bit -> 7/16 bit but in the BFH video @hosejockey61 likes the Rota Broach,

I did find 3 packs of both 3/8ths and 7/16th Blair Rota Broach on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0093U4V0S/?tag=wranglerorg-20 I would assume and hope they come with a centering pin of some sort? Guidance and suggestions are appreciated.

The slider is your template for the Rotabroach. You use the size Rotabroach that matches the mounting hole size in the sliders. A 3/8" hole in the slider uses a 3/8" Rotabroach.

Clamp the slider into place where you want it and drill through the slider into the body with the rotabroach. No center punch. No centering pin. No pilot hole. The mounting holes in the slider are what locates the Rotabroach. Drill all the mounting holes.

For any hole that requires a nutsert, enlarge that hole with the appropriate sized drill bit for the nutsert.

 

[Andymc79]

Just finished installing my armor. Found this 17/32 step drill from Matco to be awesome for enlarging the match drilled holes. No snagging, no swearing, just perfectly round holes. Pricey, but worth it after seeing the ease of enlarging the holes in sheet metal.

https://www.matcotools.com/catalog/...EliXKcZyQ9DJum0t_yoyOTvorKJukEHwIiz3GXVlTrcxY

 

[voodooridr]

Right on, thanks for the quick reply. That helps to tie it together a bit better in my mind. Much appreciated.

I have seen it asked before, but I am not sure if I recall a good answer. Do you all put welting or a bead of silicone at the top edge of the slider to keep general crap out?

Let me know if you need another set of hands drilling holes in your jeep

 

[chudlet]

Let me know if you need another set of hands drilling holes in your jeep

I took Friday off so I am hoping Thursday evening all day Friday is enough to get it knocked out. I still have to drop one side of my skid plate to pull out the hitch hiker log that jammed itself in there last weekend at Denver Creek. I would love to have some help if you have the inclination!

 

[voodooridr]

I took Friday off so I am hoping Thursday evening all day Friday is enough to get it knocked out. I still have to drop one side of my skid plate to pull out the hitch hiker log that jammed itself in there last weekend at Denver Creek. I would love to have some help if you have the inclination!

What is this "took Friday off" thing you speak of?

 

[hosejockey61]

The only reason I used the center punch was because it was the first time I experimented doing this. With everything, there are always things I might do differently. I just wanted to be 100% confident the hole was where it needed to be. Now that I have a template, any future sliders will be much easier. A little pilot hole wouldn't be an issue to fill in or ignore if it wasn't where I wanted it to be, but a 3/8" hole could be a different story. Measure twice, cut once.

 

[JMT]

P.s. if anyone is currently looking at sliders you may want to wait till @Fluxor has his available.