Here is a good thread on cutting brakes.
https://www.rockcrawler.com/forum/threads/cutting-brakes.3806/
https://www.rockcrawler.com/forum/threads/cutting-brakes.3806/
Someguys 04
- Thread starter someguysjeep
- Start date
OP
been diggin around over there at lugnut 4x4.
seems the 'kits" are not really any deal, riddled with suggestive sales and hidden markups.
ex: the 14B "kit" adds 40$ rubber hoses i won't use, with no opt out on the menu.
the E caliper and the non E caliper are both 100$ ea. and the E bracket kits runs 60$ (does both sides). but yet it's a 140$ markup @200$ on the kit menu.
to buy the "kit" it's 590$.
to break it apart. into the lessor E brake caliper kit @299$.
then add the brackets i need @ 69$ pr. we are under 400$ at this point. just gotta figure the right rotor cost into that.
** this gets tricky, as not all parts seem to be available on individual menus**
the kit offers a rotor that fits over the hub like my newer 14 does, for a 75$ upcharge over the older standard behind the hub @ 100$ a pr. there is no offering of an over the hub rotor on the individual parts menu. this requires a phone call to figure.
flippin the rotor in is an option but at the cost of more BS, like machining the hubs and shorter wheel studs, also change the WMS and could likely make the 75$ mark up much more enticing or easier to swallow anyways. or maybe the over the hub rotor is stock and the difference could be in the bracket. definitely requires a phone call.
again for me this is a more affordable way to ensure i have adequate brakes........i don't think i can run those massive rear stock calipers on the existing TJ brake power sys is the bottom line. i can make a 500$ adjustment to the rear braking sys instead of a more expensive upgrade to the brake power sys. those JB7's are rated for 15k and won't strain the sys anymore than what i now have.
being able to have a mechanical E brake is desired and the loss of up to 20# off that pig is not a negative.
but if you shop the lugnut site dig around and check the $ break down on individual parts and be sure your gettin the best deal you can even if you gotta piece it all together.
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OP
was sorta mild yesterday so i was able to get the garage cleaned up a bit more.
finally got the casters onto the axle stand, and the 14B is nestled in there. i have a pinion support rigged for now but will add something permanent eventually. it rolls good and makes it much easier to move this beast. i had to try the new stand out so the passenger side OE brackets are pfffffttt.
that allowed more room for me to work on the trailer axles that i was able to also get those onto stands to make the work more comfortable. all hubs and bearings look great, just to test those magnets now.
looking at parts.
i'm finding the shoes to be rather expensive, add hardware kits to that and your approaching what a whole new assembly costs. a new magnet puts it's over. so if anything more than hardware needs replaced it's just gonna get a new assembly.
i received the trailer coupler yesterday. Curt 12.5k sleeve lock for 2 5/16"ball, 2" channel mount so it can be handled by vehicles with different hitch heights if needed.
i got a nice rectangular scrap of 1/2" from the laser. and we got lots of 5/16" drops in the bins to make the mounting rails.
finally got the casters onto the axle stand, and the 14B is nestled in there. i have a pinion support rigged for now but will add something permanent eventually. it rolls good and makes it much easier to move this beast. i had to try the new stand out so the passenger side OE brackets are pfffffttt.
that allowed more room for me to work on the trailer axles that i was able to also get those onto stands to make the work more comfortable. all hubs and bearings look great, just to test those magnets now.
looking at parts.
i'm finding the shoes to be rather expensive, add hardware kits to that and your approaching what a whole new assembly costs. a new magnet puts it's over. so if anything more than hardware needs replaced it's just gonna get a new assembly.
i received the trailer coupler yesterday. Curt 12.5k sleeve lock for 2 5/16"ball, 2" channel mount so it can be handled by vehicles with different hitch heights if needed.
i got a nice rectangular scrap of 1/2" from the laser. and we got lots of 5/16" drops in the bins to make the mounting rails.
OP
i got out there again yesterday for a bit. the nuts holdin the caliper brackets and backing plates had to be soaked b4 they felt like givin in but i was able to get both free and ready to be cleaned up.
i got his odd sweating thing from the fuel filler hose. i often see an oily residue around the neck of the filler inlet at the bottom of the filler hose. i dry it up when i see it. it does not smell like raw fuel.
what i think it is, is condensation or evaporation that gathers into the filler tube. i don't have any leaks or drips when filling it. the neck is a 3 ridge push on and i use a common adjustable hose clamp. maybe i'm not squeezing it right on a ridge of the clamps not got enough pressure to dent the tube for a tighter seal. anyways i slid that clamp down low and cranked it tight and added another above it...............if that doesn't stop it i'm gonna get a HD wide band exhaust clamp that'll have enough meat to compress the tube onto multiple ridges with more pressure.
i got his odd sweating thing from the fuel filler hose. i often see an oily residue around the neck of the filler inlet at the bottom of the filler hose. i dry it up when i see it. it does not smell like raw fuel.
what i think it is, is condensation or evaporation that gathers into the filler tube. i don't have any leaks or drips when filling it. the neck is a 3 ridge push on and i use a common adjustable hose clamp. maybe i'm not squeezing it right on a ridge of the clamps not got enough pressure to dent the tube for a tighter seal. anyways i slid that clamp down low and cranked it tight and added another above it...............if that doesn't stop it i'm gonna get a HD wide band exhaust clamp that'll have enough meat to compress the tube onto multiple ridges with more pressure.
OP
today was rather disappointing............i got the carrier out of the pig and started to break the pinion bolts loose and that's exactly what happened.............. 3 of them bastards broke right of. so that'll give me something fun to do this wk. the pinion case holes are not tapped and should allow the pinion come free and then i can deal with the studs.
I found that I had to be really careful with the pinion bolts when I did mine. My pinion support was tight enough that it required a hammer to get it in or out. When installing it, I’d drive it in and the bolt holes would not be aligned - and there was no twisting it once it was in. The trick I found was to set the pinion in place, get all the bolts started, and then drive the pinion in.
In theory setting the pinion height on 14 bolt is easy - but in practice when the pinion is tight it’s a pain in the ass.
In theory setting the pinion height on 14 bolt is easy - but in practice when the pinion is tight it’s a pain in the ass.
OP
i really didn't tug any harder, than the rest, it was a slow steady pull. almost seems like those 3 were super tight and the others not so much.
i can see a tin gasket in there hope thats kept the surfaces from lockin.
and big nasty gobs (all fine dust) on the magnet in the diff but no evidence of anything being the culprit.
That not a gasket - that's the shim for setting the pinion depth.
Your install kit will have a bunch of 'em.
OP
thank you..........i intend on lookin but wanted to ask.
behind my hubs there were 2 loose rings on each side, they look to me like the rear seal came apart. what is left in rear of the hub is just a rubber ring. i was guessing the rubber and the 2 rings should all be 1 part. any thoughts?
i'm about to dig into the billavista 14B bible again
It does sound like the seal came apart. If memory serves, the hub seal is certainly one piece.
Edit: Pulled up a picture of the hub and seal:
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OP
kinda mild today so i'm tryin to make some progress on this trailer frame, down to the last cross member to be fit then i can start leveling and tacking the box frame together. mostly 4" channel with a couple 4" I beams about where the jeep will be setting it's weight. frame in that pic is just my workbench for the new 1.
got that coupler mount done, 1/2" plate and 5/16" rails, green for a 1st coat and i'll black it later. it'll give a good bit of adjustability.
i'll get some pics of the "trash bin trailer" when i make a bit more progress.
got that coupler mount done, 1/2" plate and 5/16" rails, green for a 1st coat and i'll black it later. it'll give a good bit of adjustability.
i'll get some pics of the "trash bin trailer" when i make a bit more progress.
OP
been diggin around through 14B parts for a couple wks now. gettin info from vendors.
seems the RnP's are all pretty close in price from many suppliers, same for lockers or traction devices.
i contacted Lugnut 4x4 and they claim they make no brackets for a newer 14B axle that already has factory disc's. i had several E mails asking about the brackets that state "14 bolt newer style w/ slide on rotors".
https://lugnut4x4.com/product/brackets/and i was told they make no bracket that fits my 2001 disc brake axle and didn't get an answer when i asked what those brackets listed as "14 bolt newer style w/slide on rotors" were made for. in the end i was told that to make this work i would require a weld on bracket that would have to be fit.
it's fast becoming apparent the older 14's with drums have more options across the board.
i been lookin at hubs also. maybe goin to a 5x5.5 BP. but again cannot find many options that will directly say they fit this axle.
most of the stuff available is just 8 lugs hubs made from aluminum (Ballistic fab and Keck's machine about 700$ for no gain other than weight loss).
or steel hubs (Solid Axle) that change the WMS and bolt pattern, but in several instances claim they only replace 6" hubs. mine measure 5.75" so another contact needs made.
read through the 14B bible about 10x now. lots of info, but i also came across this video that i thought was pretty good.
i trimmed my truss to touch the diff but i think i'm goin further. we grind the bottom why not the top, so i think i'll fit that Crane cover and anything that's higher/over it gets ground away. and we'll see if the truss can come down more. the pinion guard also plays a part in truss deck level and needs considered.
i also took that Barnes pinion guard and lopped off some if it. it was made to fit their wide top truss. mines just big enough to cap the diff and span the tube sockets, any extra is just more dead weight. added a few holes in the side gussets (to shed a whopping 19oz.
) it offers me a reach in to get to the underside hardware easier, really.
seems the RnP's are all pretty close in price from many suppliers, same for lockers or traction devices.
i contacted Lugnut 4x4 and they claim they make no brackets for a newer 14B axle that already has factory disc's. i had several E mails asking about the brackets that state "14 bolt newer style w/ slide on rotors".
https://lugnut4x4.com/product/brackets/and i was told they make no bracket that fits my 2001 disc brake axle and didn't get an answer when i asked what those brackets listed as "14 bolt newer style w/slide on rotors" were made for. in the end i was told that to make this work i would require a weld on bracket that would have to be fit.
it's fast becoming apparent the older 14's with drums have more options across the board.
i been lookin at hubs also. maybe goin to a 5x5.5 BP. but again cannot find many options that will directly say they fit this axle.
most of the stuff available is just 8 lugs hubs made from aluminum (Ballistic fab and Keck's machine about 700$ for no gain other than weight loss).
or steel hubs (Solid Axle) that change the WMS and bolt pattern, but in several instances claim they only replace 6" hubs. mine measure 5.75" so another contact needs made.
read through the 14B bible about 10x now. lots of info, but i also came across this video that i thought was pretty good.
i trimmed my truss to touch the diff but i think i'm goin further. we grind the bottom why not the top, so i think i'll fit that Crane cover and anything that's higher/over it gets ground away. and we'll see if the truss can come down more. the pinion guard also plays a part in truss deck level and needs considered.
i also took that Barnes pinion guard and lopped off some if it. it was made to fit their wide top truss. mines just big enough to cap the diff and span the tube sockets, any extra is just more dead weight. added a few holes in the side gussets (to shed a whopping 19oz.
) it offers me a reach in to get to the underside hardware easier, really.
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OP
yesterday was no fun, that pinion assy is locked, it's not budgin. i beat the collar to try and break the corrosion bond on those busted bolts........ i beat the head to try and drive it out and it ain't movin yet. i left it to soak overnight.
today i'm gonna try a bit of heat see if i can warm the housing around the pinion assy flange and those busted bolts.
so i moved along to get the rest of the old link brackets off, just needs some work with a grinder and all that's done.
then the good 1.......... i rolled the housing and discovered a F'N drain plug in the bottom of the housing (buried in goo). right in the path of the chunk i need to lop off. i did not catch this plug buried in the sludge in a divot under the ring gear. and of course the older axles don't seem to have this plug in that spot.
i looked over @NashvilleTJ thread and he also had this plug (i never noticed), but he also did a full shave that totally eliminated it.
this may pose a serious issue for me, that divot may be down at a level where the cut i need to make leaves a very thin area of housing material on the bottom (where i expect it to take hits, no bueno) and i'll still have to weld the plug in.
i'm gonna make a call to WOD/Crane Mon. and see what they know about it or how they deal with it.
pic of the divot from Nashville's thread and an older 14 w/o the plug and divot, that well is about a 1/4" deep, i know i'm cutting into the bottom of the lowest bolt hole and the plane can be changed some based on pinion elevation. but i gotta be careful here.
TBH i thought i was doin better with a newer disk brake axle but in the end the 99 and older w/ drums would have been given me the brakes i want and the diff i need to do this easier. i let those drums intimidate me into thinkin it would be more expensive, and a bigger PITA but that's just not the case. it would have been harder to unload from the truck is all.
today i'm gonna try a bit of heat see if i can warm the housing around the pinion assy flange and those busted bolts.
so i moved along to get the rest of the old link brackets off, just needs some work with a grinder and all that's done.
then the good 1.......... i rolled the housing and discovered a F'N drain plug in the bottom of the housing (buried in goo). right in the path of the chunk i need to lop off. i did not catch this plug buried in the sludge in a divot under the ring gear. and of course the older axles don't seem to have this plug in that spot.
i looked over @NashvilleTJ thread and he also had this plug (i never noticed), but he also did a full shave that totally eliminated it.
this may pose a serious issue for me, that divot may be down at a level where the cut i need to make leaves a very thin area of housing material on the bottom (where i expect it to take hits, no bueno) and i'll still have to weld the plug in.
i'm gonna make a call to WOD/Crane Mon. and see what they know about it or how they deal with it.
pic of the divot from Nashville's thread and an older 14 w/o the plug and divot, that well is about a 1/4" deep, i know i'm cutting into the bottom of the lowest bolt hole and the plane can be changed some based on pinion elevation. but i gotta be careful here.
TBH i thought i was doin better with a newer disk brake axle but in the end the 99 and older w/ drums would have been given me the brakes i want and the diff i need to do this easier. i let those drums intimidate me into thinkin it would be more expensive, and a bigger PITA but that's just not the case. it would have been harder to unload from the truck is all.
The only way I could ever remove the pinion was to use a heavy punch directly on the pinion gear, and a 4 or 5 pound hammer - hard. It was that way even pulling it out over and over doing the gear setup. That’s definiately what I meant ealier when I said it was a pain in the ass. Good luck, man.
Why such an aversion to the stock disk brake setup - is it all about the weight?
Why such an aversion to the stock disk brake setup - is it all about the weight?
OP
no, not weight.....just my being unsure the sys can support the addition of those huge calipers without problems. i already increased the caliper piston mass by 100% from stock and now i'm trying to move that needle to more like 200%.
@Fluxor mentioned "right master booster combo" what is that vs what i got? (just a larger bore MC).
Blaine could tell me in like 3 seconds but i hate draggin him into my messes, i'm sure he would label a waste of time.
i'ma fill a bucket with some rags and put it under the assy as a catch, so i can give it a few nice whacks after i warm it some.
The rags in a bucket trick is exactly how I did it….well, after the first time anyway.
My advice would be to upgrade the brakes all the way around to match the big stuff on the 14 bolt. That’s what I wound up doing and I’m glad that I did.
I used the ram 2500 master. Worked great. It’s a volume thing. Your booster provides the force the master distributes the volume. They need to be matched to work. The more volume your calipers require the larger the bore in the master cylinde.
Sorry it may be in your thread but what is your current combo? Tj booster and what master?
There are other master cylinders that will also work.
Sorry it may be in your thread but what is your current combo? Tj booster and what master?
There are other master cylinders that will also work.
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OP
the 2500 MC has a 37mm bore, i assume that ain't goona fit a TJ booster the 2500 booster is affordable but whats involved in getting that in place of what i have now, not to mention i think that sucker is about 3" larger in diameter. if i read correctly.
googlin it now.
I was using a YJ dual diaphragm booster. From what Blain says and I’m sure he’s correct, the TJ booster puts out plenty of pressure. i Would start by researching what master guys are using.
your next issue will be flaring lines that don’t leak. The only tool I have used with consistent success is the Eastwood. It’s expensive but works amazingly well.
you may also need a adjustable proportioning valve to dial the rear down if they are locking up before the fronts in a panic stop.
For reference I’m running a 77 ford dana 44 front narrowed to waggy width. The calipers are a little larger then then stock TJ and the TJ booster master combo is fine. The pedal goes down a very small amount more then before but due to the larger brake rotors and calipers I can easily lock up 35s. The amount of pressure the booster makes works.
your next issue will be flaring lines that don’t leak. The only tool I have used with consistent success is the Eastwood. It’s expensive but works amazingly well.
you may also need a adjustable proportioning valve to dial the rear down if they are locking up before the fronts in a panic stop.
For reference I’m running a 77 ford dana 44 front narrowed to waggy width. The calipers are a little larger then then stock TJ and the TJ booster master combo is fine. The pedal goes down a very small amount more then before but due to the larger brake rotors and calipers I can easily lock up 35s. The amount of pressure the booster makes works.
OP
i got that bastard, put some heat to it and really had to lay into it......knockin on the back of the yoke proved better......., some prick put lock tight on that F'r. all over the assy flange and on the bolts. the 3 that broke were full of it. got those bitches out too.
the shim was glued on with it.
and i found the problem or source for all the debris on the magnet, they busted the shit out of the pilot bearing cup rim when seating it over 1/3 of it is broken away.
it's a bare housing now.