Steering won't return to center (6.1 degree caster - 1/8" toe-in)
- Thread starter zachpeakee
- Start date
No pics, as I don’t think I’ve ever actually used them on my rig. But if you google race ramps, you will see their site. Downside is they are not cheap.
Yowsa I found them and you are right. Too rich for my blood, thanks for the reply!
Thank you guys for the replies.
I'm going to give my best attempt to answer everything.
I've only had the TJ for 6 months. Bought it in fairly rough mechanical shape, and have spent my time with it getting everything back "nice".
Blown tie rods, busted control arms, loose track bar, grinding transmission, etc. It was rough.
So the only "baseline" I have to judge from is that hunk of 45mph deathtrap on the day I bought it.
I've spent a LOT of money building it up how I want it (something I can hit the mountain gulches with, but also drive 6 hours away if I want)
I've pretty much been troubleshooting/fixing things as I find them, and there's not much underneath that I HAVEN'T checked.
All modifications were done in the last 6 months, and Steering issue has been part of that for the entire time.
(Hence why I point fingers at Ball-Joints and/or Steering box. They're the only steering components I have checked, but not replaced)
Toe was measured using 3' flat-stock on the rotor surface (actually followed @Jerry Bransford 's alignment thread for this) , as well as verified on an alignment rack.
I am entertaining the idea of the steering box being the culprit. When I first got the TJ, one of the first things I messed with was the adjustment screw, because I had about 3" of play in the steering wheel. Return to Center was NOT okay before the adjustment, so I disregarded the adjustment as causing the issue. Although I am willing to admit, I could be 100% incorrect, or maybe the steering box was already too far gone?
It's really an odd issue, and it's more than irritating because I am willing to bet it's something uber simple.
I'll throw the TJ on some stands tonight, yank the tie rod off, and see if the BJ's are binding.
Also, If I disconnect Pitman arm and rotate the arm by hand, should the steering box feel relatively loose? or would it have some resistance?
I guess what I'm asking is how do I "check" the steering box for abnormal binding?
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@Jerry Bransford
I LOVE my ramps. They are the number 2 thing I've ever bought for the garage. (number 1 being my toolbox. lol)
I've had them for years, across multiple vehicles.
They're the Schwaben 67" 2-Piece Ramps. $500...
ALSO TO NOTE, They are one of the only ramps I've seen that are backed with a LIFETIME WARRANTY.
(Not sure how to post links yet, but hopefully this works?)
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwabe...pc-67-low-profile-car-ramp-pair/006160sch01a/
I was a Vinyl Wrap Installer, so mine are the Low Profile ramps for getting some of the Sports cars onto.
But for the TJ's or "normal" vehicles, don't waste your money on the Low-Profile ones.
They make a 40" pair for only $200.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben-by-race-ramps-parts/40-car-ramp-pair/006140sch01a/
I think they're advertised as weighing only 15lb each for the 2-piece designs, or like 5lb? for the 1-piece ramps.
They're made out of EPS Foam, and coated with some type of hard-rubberized "bedliner" type coating.
I prefer them over metal/plastic ramps, because of the build-materials.
I don't have to worry about being underneath cracked welds, or shitty designs/materials.
I never have an issue with them sliding, and not once have I felt unsafe underneath them.
Have used them for years and they still clean up like brand new.
I would buy another set right now without hesitation.
I'm going to give my best attempt to answer everything.
I've only had the TJ for 6 months. Bought it in fairly rough mechanical shape, and have spent my time with it getting everything back "nice".
Blown tie rods, busted control arms, loose track bar, grinding transmission, etc. It was rough.
So the only "baseline" I have to judge from is that hunk of 45mph deathtrap on the day I bought it.
I've spent a LOT of money building it up how I want it (something I can hit the mountain gulches with, but also drive 6 hours away if I want)
I've pretty much been troubleshooting/fixing things as I find them, and there's not much underneath that I HAVEN'T checked.
All modifications were done in the last 6 months, and Steering issue has been part of that for the entire time.
(Hence why I point fingers at Ball-Joints and/or Steering box. They're the only steering components I have checked, but not replaced)
Toe was measured using 3' flat-stock on the rotor surface (actually followed @Jerry Bransford 's alignment thread for this) , as well as verified on an alignment rack.
I am entertaining the idea of the steering box being the culprit. When I first got the TJ, one of the first things I messed with was the adjustment screw, because I had about 3" of play in the steering wheel. Return to Center was NOT okay before the adjustment, so I disregarded the adjustment as causing the issue. Although I am willing to admit, I could be 100% incorrect, or maybe the steering box was already too far gone?
It's really an odd issue, and it's more than irritating because I am willing to bet it's something uber simple.
I'll throw the TJ on some stands tonight, yank the tie rod off, and see if the BJ's are binding.
Also, If I disconnect Pitman arm and rotate the arm by hand, should the steering box feel relatively loose? or would it have some resistance?
I guess what I'm asking is how do I "check" the steering box for abnormal binding?
-
-
-
@Jerry Bransford
I LOVE my ramps. They are the number 2 thing I've ever bought for the garage. (number 1 being my toolbox. lol)
I've had them for years, across multiple vehicles.
They're the Schwaben 67" 2-Piece Ramps. $500...
ALSO TO NOTE, They are one of the only ramps I've seen that are backed with a LIFETIME WARRANTY.
(Not sure how to post links yet, but hopefully this works?)
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwabe...pc-67-low-profile-car-ramp-pair/006160sch01a/
I was a Vinyl Wrap Installer, so mine are the Low Profile ramps for getting some of the Sports cars onto.
But for the TJ's or "normal" vehicles, don't waste your money on the Low-Profile ones.
They make a 40" pair for only $200.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben-by-race-ramps-parts/40-car-ramp-pair/006140sch01a/
I think they're advertised as weighing only 15lb each for the 2-piece designs, or like 5lb? for the 1-piece ramps.
They're made out of EPS Foam, and coated with some type of hard-rubberized "bedliner" type coating.
I prefer them over metal/plastic ramps, because of the build-materials.
I don't have to worry about being underneath cracked welds, or shitty designs/materials.
I never have an issue with them sliding, and not once have I felt unsafe underneath them.
Have used them for years and they still clean up like brand new.
I would buy another set right now without hesitation.
My money's now on the steering gear. That adjustment screw isn't really meant for tightening up a worn-out gear. When you tighten it, you're getting play out where the bore is worn, but then when you turn the wheel and the piston moves to a less-worn spot, it's too tight. @mrblaine, if the screw is too tight, would he feel it get tight as he turned the wheel if the drag link was disconnected from the pitman arm? Would that confirm where the problem is?
Depends on how tight it is. Only a slight bit of over tight will or can kill RTC. Also depends on how worn the bore is.
Best way to tell is to back off the adjuster screw, keep track of the turns you make to it and then test drive.
When I tightened it, I only went about 1/2 turn.
Just enough to pull the majority of the steering slop out.
The only issue I have, which is to be expected with something I have no history with, is I'm not sure if it was ever adjusted before.
I might have just polished a turd.
Just enough to pull the majority of the steering slop out.
The only issue I have, which is to be expected with something I have no history with, is I'm not sure if it was ever adjusted before.
I might have just polished a turd.
You should have led with that nugget of info which is not in the first post.
Not very tall, but here's some that are a little cheaper.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NF6NSSC/?tag=wranglerorg-20
My apologies.
I followed a guide here on the forums, so thought that it was kind of "standard practice".
Either way, tightening the box cured my loose steering wheel, but did not affect my return to center in any way.
Now that's not to say that the Steering box wasn't already worn/adjusted, because the one obvious issue since both before AND after me tightening the box, is that the RTC is improper/unchanged.
For that price, I would argue that the Schwaben 40" ramps are a better deal.
I just don't trust plastic materials enough. Although EastWood is a highly reputable company.
Even at that price, they're only $40 cheaper than the 40" Schwaben's.
But then again, I have no real experience with the plastic ramps.
I bought my Schwaben's almost 5 years ago now, and they're the only ramps I've ever owned.
Those (40"s) aren't 2 piece.
I believe that was the appeal of the ones in your original post.
That is true. However, according to the measurements..
The one piece 40" design is only 1/2 the size of the two-piece design.
Again, if you have vehicles that DONT need the low approach angle, it would be fine.
I only bought the two-piece due to working around a lot of sportscars, and vehicles with low approach angles.
ALSO, the 30" version of the ramps is the exact same length as the front 1/2 of my 2-piece style.
The only issue being, the shorter you go in ramp length, the shorter the lift height will be.
(and obviously the more aggressive approach angle, if you have lower vehicles you also want to use)
$500 for the 2-piece "Low Profile" design - Only $200 for the 40" 1-piece - and only $130 for the 30" 1-piece
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Positive caster IS rotated 6* towards the rear of the vehicle.
Negative Caster would be rolling the axle towards the front of the vehicle.
It sounds ass-backwards from what it means.
Caster is essentially measured on a 360* spectrum when viewed from the side.
TDC would be 0 degrees, and scale up in a clockwise rotation.
Caster angle is measured in relevancy to this.
Hence why "negative" caster is basically subtracting degrees from 0.
Positive is adding degrees from zero.
Like I said, it's always felt "backwards" to me.
Yes -You are right and I’m wrong.
I had the same situation with a Ford truck recently and the ball joints were overtightened and the new parts not greased. It was miserable to drive.
This is the direction i'm currently leaning towards.
The TJ goes in the shop on the 11th for Axles to be Rebuilt, 4.88's installed, and ARB Air Lockers.
I'm going to more than likely tear into the axles and replace BJ's while it's in for surgery.
