Suspension Decisions: Can’t Make Up My Mind

[Tronner]

comes with all control arms and front and rear adjustable track bar

The adjustable track bars are not needed at 0 and will not adjust small enough to retain the factory geometry. Additionally they do not have the same clearance the factory bar has, especially up front. You can run the factory bar at 0- about 2in of lift and get away fine, any higher and then you need adjustable and bump stop modification. Still wouldn’t use Cores trac bar at higher lift height as it has some design issues when it comes to clearance at full bump. Ask me how I know.

 

[JMT]

This feels like a dumb question, but Core 4x4’s cruise series adjustable control arms/track bar combo say they fit a lift 0” -6”. It comes with all control arms and front and rear adjustable track bar. I just want confirmation that I can use all that even without a lift. That I’m not gonna buy this and then find out it doesn’t fit or something.

Yes I know I don’t need adjustable without a lift but I’d much rather buy them now and when I inevitably want a lift in a few years I already have them. They seem sturdier than stock arms, and having the ability to adjust geometry is never bad in my mind.

Before doing anything you’re supposed to decide your final tire size. Otherwise you buy crap now you will replace later, and it’s better to bite the bullet now and buy the good stuff. Be honest with yourself and figure out what you want now.

The factory control arms are good up to 2.5-3” of suspension lift. Their U-channel design allows for twist under articulation. Their thick rubber bushings are great for damping vibrations. Of course, rocks are not nice to them. When you go to an aftermarket arm you go to a solid bar link and the end joints are where all the flex is permitted, so the right joints are critical. Poly sucks and squeaks. Rubber is good in some respects but deformation is your allowable articulation. There are plenty of others but JJ are the best.

 

[MikekiM]

Bought my TJ with RC N3 shocks and 2.5" springs.
The bad.. it was half a job. The good.. fewer things to replace.
I daily drive it and at this point the only OE suspension parts left are the upper CAs and I am replacing them in two weeks.
The ride is on par with my other, newer Jeeps.

First thing to go were the RC shocks. They were brand new and were brutally uncomfortable. I still have the springs and what you have there don't look like what I have.. The powder coating on mine is still perfect even though the Jeep has seen multiple NE winters. That leaves the springs you have there suspect to me. Either serious abuse or they aren't RC.

Either way.. have fun. The TJ can definitely be dialed in to handle very comfortably.

 

[Cameron23]

So the TJ and ZJ share the same steering geometry.

Parts are bolt in interchangeable.

The ZJ and TJ drag link are the same, but the ZJ has a beefier tie rod.

Search the How To Guide section, and you’ll see many posts.

It is bolt in, great chance to refresh all the joints and get a touch beefier tie rod when you get rid of that drip Pitman. I did it exactly the same, got rid of drop Pitman that was on mine, and put the ZJ setup.

I then went to Currie Currectlync when I went 4” with 35’s.

Either way, it’s an inexpensive upgrade while you put on a stock Pitman arm.

Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like I should be ordering the ZJ components.

 

[Cameron23]

Before doing anything you’re supposed to decide your final tire size. Otherwise you buy crap now you will replace later, and it’s better to bite the bullet now and buy the good stuff. Be honest with yourself and figure out what you want now.

The factory control arms are good up to 2.5-3” of suspension lift. Their U-channel design allows for twist under articulation. Their thick rubber bushings are great for damping vibrations. Of course, rocks are not nice to them. When you go to an aftermarket arm you go to a solid bar link and the end joints are where all the flex is permitted, so the right joints are critical. Poly sucks and squeaks. Rubber is good in some respects but deformation is your allowable articulation. There are plenty of others but JJ are the best.

If I’m bluntly honest with myself maintaining the 4” lift just isn’t in the cards right now. I bought it solely because of reliability + top down weekend fun factor.

Realistically I’ll probably daily this thing for 2-3 years and then do an engine/transmission overhaul and lift it when I get bored. I’m thinking at this point I’ll go full stock. I grabbed ZJ wheels with 225s on them that have about 50% life left. I’ll run those until they wear down and then get 31s. Priority for me right now is get this thing safe to drive daily, and find a hardtop and full doors for an affordable price (which will probably be the hard part).

 

[Tronner]

Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like I should be ordering the ZJ components.

Slight correction to @cpwolf explanation. The TJ tie rod is slightly different than the ZJ tie rod and they are different Part numbers. The angle at the passenger side knuckle is different. I am currently running the ZJ tie rod and have not had any issues but the position of the ball joint is extreme. I would suggest keeping the TJ tie rod and just add the ZJ drag link instead. Especially if you are retaining the stock height.

 

[Cameron23]

Slight correction to @cpwolf explanation. The TJ tie rod is slightly different than the ZJ tie rod and they are different Part numbers. The angle at the passenger side knuckle is different. I am currently running the ZJ tie rod and have not had any issues but the position of the ball joint is extreme. I would suggest keeping the TJ tie rod and just add the ZJ drag link instead. Especially if you are retaining the stock height.

My decision is to take it back to stock height no lift, but try to refresh as many components that I can. Already doing pitman arm, and ball joints (and inner seals if they’re leaking) this weekend.

I’ll make a plan this weekend and post on here before I order my springs, shocks, CAs, track bar, and drag link, TRs, etc. Would be really appreciative if everyone would take a look at it before I hit order.

Then I really need to find tips and tricks on removing a shitty built 4 inch lift and returning to stock height, cause unsurprisingly I don’t see any videos on that

 

[Tronner]

Then I really need to find tips and tricks on removing a shitty built 4 inch lift and returning to stock height, cause unsurprisingly I don’t see any videos on tha

It is the easiest part LOL, Jack up the frame, SUPPORT IT!, Disconnect the track bar, sway bar links and front brakes, Shocks. Drop the front axle, remove front springs, install stock springs, Re-assemble. For the rear, remove shocks, droop the rear axle, pull springs, replace with stock springs. My tip is to have a good pry bar for the springs if you are not able to get enough droop on the axles and to take your time.

 

[cpwolf]

Slight correction to @cpwolf explanation. The TJ tie rod is slightly different than the ZJ tie rod and they are different Part numbers. The angle at the passenger side knuckle is different. I am currently running the ZJ tie rod and have not had any issues but the position of the ball joint is extreme. I would suggest keeping the TJ tie rod and just add the ZJ drag link instead. Especially if you are retaining the stock height.

So, unless others can chime in, I'm going to disagree here. I put the ZJ conversion on my TJ.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/zj-tie-rod-conversion.2373/ Here is the How To that @Chris has up on that section.

My experience with it, but granted I did have a lift, but I'm very confident that doesn't matter.

1. The drag link size and weight beefiness is zero difference. The TJ and ZJ drag links were just same. It was worth the purchase, because it refreshed the joints, but after reading Chris' information etc, getting the TJ Wrangler Drag link replacement was what I did, the ZJ is not any beefier.
2. The ZJ Tie rod bolts right in, no mods, BUT, it is much beefier. Solid, and I believe the OEM TJ tie rod is hollow, and threads on each end to a Tie Rod End. The ZJ uses an adjuster sleeve that threads on the solid tie rod. The ZJ Tie Rod is actually what makes it worth doing, along with the refreshing all the components.
3. Mine I think was all Moog, I got it off Amazon.

This is the Drag Link ZJ,
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C5406S?tag=wranglerorg-20


This is the "Tie Rod End" they call it, but it's the whole bar:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C5400E?tag=wranglerorg-20


Then you need I believe 2 TREs
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C59W7U?tag=wranglerorg-20



Then needed 2 of these adjusters, says I purchased 3 of these and the TREs, not sure why, I think I accidentally got 1 extra?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C57VBY?tag=wranglerorg-20




This is my TJ in 2020 I think when I got this, they don't have paint (Cheap ass) so I painted it all with silver, I had silver paint for some reason and I had put on aluminum Savvy Control arms that look silver ish, ha.


Here is a pic I found of it on:

I have since gone to the Currie Curreclync steering, here is a pic of that:

 

[Tronner]

So, unless others can chime in, I'm going to disagree here. I put the ZJ conversion on my TJ.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/zj-tie-rod-conversion.2373/ Here is the How To that @Chris has up on that section.

My experience with it, but granted I did have a lift, but I'm very confident that doesn't matter.

1. The drag link size and weight beefiness is zero difference. The TJ and ZJ drag links were just same. It was worth the purchase, because it refreshed the joints, but after reading Chris' information etc, getting the TJ Wrangler Drag link replacement was what I did, the ZJ is not any beefier.
2. The ZJ Tie rod bolts right in, no mods, BUT, it is much beefier. Solid, and I believe the OEM TJ tie rod is hollow, and threads on each end to a Tie Rod End. The ZJ uses an adjuster sleeve that threads on the solid tie rod. The ZJ Tie Rod is actually what makes it worth doing, along with the refreshing all the components.
3. Mine I think was all Moog, I got it off Amazon.

This is the Drag Link ZJ,
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C5406S?tag=wranglerorg-20
View attachment 646752

This is the "Tie Rod End" they call it, but it's the whole bar:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C5400E?tag=wranglerorg-20
View attachment 646754

Then you need I believe 2 TREs
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C59W7U?tag=wranglerorg-20

View attachment 646755

Then needed 2 of these adjusters, says I purchased 3 of these and the TREs, not sure why, I think I accidentally got 1 extra?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C57VBY?tag=wranglerorg-20

View attachment 646756


This is my TJ in 2020 I think when I got this, they don't have paint (Cheap ass) so I painted it all with silver, I had silver paint for some reason and I had put on aluminum Savvy Control arms that look silver ish, ha.


Here is a pic I found of it on:

View attachment 646757

I have since gone to the Currie Curreclync steering, here is a pic of that:


View attachment 646758

My apologies I am conflating terms. The drag link for the TJ and ZJ are slightly different in the angle that is present at mating surface of the passenger side knuckle, The TJ drag link will sit flatter against the knuckle, where as the ZJ drag link has more of an angle. It is recommended to just use the TJ one but there is no harm in using the ZJ one, the angle at the mating surface is just slightly different. The full extent of the 'ZJ upgrade' is the beefier solid tie rod that goes to the drivers side knuckle. Currently, I am running full ZJ steering up front Drag link and tie rod. I plan to go to curie once I complete my 4inch lift. The currectlync drag is similar to the TJ drag link as it sits flat against the knuckle and not at an angle (at least at 4in of list) Your parts list above is the same I used when I did the 'ZJ upgrade' though I have since replaced most of the moog parts as they failed at worryingly short intervals.

 

[cpwolf]

My decision is to take it back to stock height no lift, but try to refresh as many components that I can. Already doing pitman arm, and ball joints (and inner seals if they’re leaking) this weekend.

I’ll make a plan this weekend and post on here before I order my springs, shocks, CAs, track bar, and drag link, TRs, etc. Would be really appreciative if everyone would take a look at it before I hit order.

Then I really need to find tips and tricks on removing a shitty built 4 inch lift and returning to stock height, cause unsurprisingly I don’t see any videos on that

This shows a guy removing springs. I'm by far not the expert of experts on here, but I've done it and the video shows it mostly. I'm always careful with videos, they give me a visual, but they can be idiots. Not saying this person is or isn't but it's just a reference.

My suggestions, for what it's worth:

If they are 4", you may need to disconnect a little more. I'd start by lifting the TJ and jack standing under the frame. Sometimes (not saying always) you can just unhook the shock, and use a jack on the opposite side of the axle to articulate it, and squeeze the spring out, then do the other side. With my 4" springs swap, I had to unhook a lower control arm. I didn't want to use a spring compressor, just personally don't like to.

The brakes, if you have extended lines on it, maybe maybe not take off the caliper.

Word to the wise...the rear shocks, the upper MFers are notorious for taking a 2 bolt a side 20 minute project to a 4 days freaking disaster to fix. They rust up there etc. I'd hit them with a Penetrant (I'm not suggesting a brand, you'll get your head chewed off if it's not the right one). No one likes PB Blaster, and I stopped using it because their suggestions are usually good, ha.

You could also pull the whole axle to do it, but that would be over kill, ha. I swapped to Dana 44's made the spring part kinda easy, just pointing out that I did this in my garage with mostly just normal tools, so it's not overwhelming, just saying. Anything you need, guys in here can get you on track.

 

[cpwolf]

My apologies I am conflating terms. The drag link for the TJ and ZJ are slightly different in the angle that is present at mating surface of the passenger side knuckle, The TJ drag link will sit flatter against the knuckle, where as the ZJ drag link has more of an angle. It is recommended to just use the TJ one but there is no harm in using the ZJ one, the angle at the mating surface is just slightly different. The full extent of the 'ZJ upgrade' is the beefier solid tie rod that goes to the drivers side knuckle. Currently, I am running full ZJ steering up front Drag link and tie rod. I plan to go to curie once I complete my 4inch lift. The currectlync drag is similar to the TJ drag link as it sits flat against the knuckle and not at an angle (at least at 4in of list) Your parts list above is the same I used when I did the 'ZJ upgrade' though I have since replaced most of the moog parts as they failed at worryingly short intervals.

Fair, sorry, yeah the one I got was just the TJ, because the ZJ isn't any stronger from what I read.

 

[Cameron23]

This shows a guy removing springs. I'm by far not the expert of experts on here, but I've done it and the video shows it mostly. I'm always careful with videos, they give me a visual, but they can be idiots. Not saying this person is or isn't but it's just a reference.

My suggestions, for what it's worth:

If they are 4", you may need to disconnect a little more. I'd start by lifting the TJ and jack standing under the frame. Sometimes (not saying always) you can just unhook the shock, and use a jack on the opposite side of the axle to articulate it, and squeeze the spring out, then do the other side. With my 4" springs swap, I had to unhook a lower control arm. I didn't want to use a spring compressor, just personally don't like to.

The brakes, if you have extended lines on it, maybe maybe not take off the caliper.

Word to the wise...the rear shocks, the upper MFers are notorious for taking a 2 bolt a side 20 minute project to a 4 days freaking disaster to fix. They rust up there etc. I'd hit them with a Penetrant (I'm not suggesting a brand, you'll get your head chewed off if it's not the right one). No one likes PB Blaster, and I stopped using it because their suggestions are usually good, ha.

You could also pull the whole axle to do it, but that would be over kill, ha. I swapped to Dana 44's made the spring part kinda easy, just pointing out that I did this in my garage with mostly just normal tools, so it's not overwhelming, just saying. Anything you need, guys in here can get you on track.


View attachment 646761View attachment 646762

Lucky for me the shocks are new so the bolts that hold them in are clean AF. Should come out fairly easy (if I didn’t just jinx myself) and if they're stuck I have a Dewalt ugga dugga that stripped the threads off my rusted ubolts on my Tundra when I first got it.

Also your frame is a masterpiece.

 

[Moglocker]

There’s lots of help on here. I did my SYE several years ago and I’m coming from no background on cars. Can be done from underneath or pull the whole case and do on the bench.

No way you’re getting your caster back without going back to stock or getting adjustable control arms along with the SYE.

Go back to stock pitman arm. Consider Skyjacker Blackmax shocks or Rancho 5000X. ZJ tie rod conversion. Alignment is toe only and there’s a thread on it. Super easy. And yes, ball joints. There’s a kit that’s commonly recommended for the tool. Spicer is the go to brand there. No Rough Country unless you like to repeat all this a year from now.

Welcome to the forum.

My apologies I am conflating terms. The drag link for the TJ and ZJ are slightly different in the angle that is present at mating surface of the passenger side knuckle, The TJ drag link will sit flatter against the knuckle, where as the ZJ drag link has more of an angle. It is recommended to just use the TJ one but there is no harm in using the ZJ one, the angle at the mating surface is just slightly different. The full extent of the 'ZJ upgrade' is the beefier solid tie rod that goes to the drivers side knuckle. Currently, I am running full ZJ steering up front Drag link and tie rod. I plan to go to curie once I complete my 4inch lift. The currectlync drag is similar to the TJ drag link as it sits flat against the knuckle and not at an angle (at least at 4in of list) Your parts list above is the same I used when I did the 'ZJ upgrade' though I have since replaced most of the moog parts as they failed at worryingly short intervals.

Yes,it gets rid of the hollow tj part