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The Church of Cutting Brakes of Atlas-Front Digs
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What a project!! Way to do it right and reap the rewards. Hope your trip is a total success.
The Silver Fox LJ Build
- Thread starter JMT
- Start date
We've all done stupid stuff. I can't see what is wrong in blurry pics. I can't get headed in the right direction to a solution if the info is poor. The common 9/16-18 thread that -6 ORB and JIC/AN -6 male flare share poses a scenario where either end can be screwed into the ORB female port.
It never occurred to me that it would actually be possible that one would do it that way. It should have, especially since I spent several hours trying to solve a brake bleeding problem with new parts we sent out. I always start with the basics, bleeders on top, right? Absolutely, the bleeders are on top. Hard pedal, start it, goes right to the floor.
We finally get to the "send me pictures" so I can try and figure it out. This is about what I got and he was correct, bleeders are on top. What I missed and he failed to mention is he didn't know that the banjo bolt hole has sealing rings for the crush washers and my mistake was not putting together that the banjo bolt and bleed screw both share the same 3/8-24 thread.
To be fair though, had you borrowed that non potato camera that already got me in trouble once, I would have seen the tube nut bottomed out on the hex and that would have joggled me into a better answer.
This is very hard to use to tell what is going on.
There is supposed to be a gap there.
All this time I've been laying under the jeep trying to wrap my brain around where to mount a cooler thermostat i never once thought about mounting it directly to the hard lines, that's brilliant. I have a Derale thermostat from another project but I like that one a lot better
What is the mounting bracket bolted to?
What is the mounting bracket bolted to?
I used a conveniently located empty threaded bolt boss on the engine block. What are the ports on yours? Most might not know that you can get ORB x female swivel to hook up to the hard lines. The pic above I silver brazed male flares to the SS hard lines because I can. There are other ways.
Not sure what size the ports are on the Derale stat, haven't had it out of the box in a long minute, I do remember they're NPT to 3/8 barbed fittings.
If you want to attach it directly to the hard line, the easiest method is -6 JIC/AN male flare by 3/8" flareless bite fittings. That gives you a male flare on the end of the hard line and they are available in zinc plated steel or stainless steel. Then you can adapt the ports to female swivel in -6.
https://www.titanfittings.com/adapt...aulic-adapters/37-degree-jic-an-fittings/6505
After that, pick how you want to connect to the soft lines.
More details for someone who might need to add a thermal bypass, hydro steering assist, or Setrab transmission cooler. Or this is just me trying to explain what was explained to me and please correct me so I can learn and correct the post.
It’s been reiterated, and search and read threads, but it can be said again that hydro steering assist setup should not be gauged by a single metric, namely how easy it is to turn the steering wheel offroad. You can spend virtually the same money and get good steering on and offroad. I almost messed up royally because I didn’t understand what I was doing and Blaine started asking me questions so I could understand. This was after I put in an order at BMB for his nearly bolt in hydro assist. What business calls you and says, “What the f—are you doing?” He asked me about hydraulics and used tractors as an example. How much input and feedback do you get from hydraulic lift on a tractor? None. That is a problem onroad because you need feedback so your steering isn’t twitchy and you’re constantly correcting. That’s the point of the larger diameter torsion bar in the steering box. That metric should be addressed if you want nice onroad steering. Boy is it nice too. I drove my Red TJ today with a stick Mercedes box and it’s not even a comparison. The other parts he specified from PSC and do it’s not a “get in PSC website and buy a pump and reservoir.” What I did get is awesome. Only after discussing did he let me buy the nearly bolt on hydro assist. Install was straightforward, @Chris has a write-up in the How-To section. I went way out of order because I got parts at three different times and so I worked with what I had till more parts came in. Pay attention if you have a midarm bc you have a bit of cutting and welding to do at the cylinder axle mount. Also pay attention to the hose routing and reservoir placement. I did have trouble getting the system to take steering fluid. No matter how much I turned the wheel I couldn’t get more than about 9/10 of a quart. I started cracking nuts/connections to deal with an air lock. Didn’t help. I finally put my mouth in the reservoir and sealed my face on the edges as good as I could and gave it all the pressure I could. That got things moving.
A few more times and then steering took care of the rest. Problem when I started it for first 30 seconds I had ATF leaking everywhere. This was due to my stupidness with the fittings at the Improved Racing compact thermal bypass (-6AN). Blaine sent me links to the 4 fittings (2 each). I had installed 2 of them backwards 
. Only took 4 days to figure that out. Once I did I finished bleeding the steering system. OSC has instructions on their website, Chris has them in his how-to, and @hosejockey61 explained it on BFH Garage video. Anyway, the most important thing is learning from Blaine, getting the right parts to have good on and offroad steering.
It’s awesome. Drive down the highway one finger on the wheel nice and relaxed and not constantly correcting. It drives the same everywhere it goes. It’s a well-thought-out, tried-and-true system.
It’s been reiterated, and search and read threads, but it can be said again that hydro steering assist setup should not be gauged by a single metric, namely how easy it is to turn the steering wheel offroad. You can spend virtually the same money and get good steering on and offroad. I almost messed up royally because I didn’t understand what I was doing and Blaine started asking me questions so I could understand. This was after I put in an order at BMB for his nearly bolt in hydro assist. What business calls you and says, “What the f—are you doing?” He asked me about hydraulics and used tractors as an example. How much input and feedback do you get from hydraulic lift on a tractor? None. That is a problem onroad because you need feedback so your steering isn’t twitchy and you’re constantly correcting. That’s the point of the larger diameter torsion bar in the steering box. That metric should be addressed if you want nice onroad steering. Boy is it nice too. I drove my Red TJ today with a stick Mercedes box and it’s not even a comparison. The other parts he specified from PSC and do it’s not a “get in PSC website and buy a pump and reservoir.” What I did get is awesome. Only after discussing did he let me buy the nearly bolt on hydro assist. Install was straightforward, @Chris has a write-up in the How-To section. I went way out of order because I got parts at three different times and so I worked with what I had till more parts came in. Pay attention if you have a midarm bc you have a bit of cutting and welding to do at the cylinder axle mount. Also pay attention to the hose routing and reservoir placement. I did have trouble getting the system to take steering fluid. No matter how much I turned the wheel I couldn’t get more than about 9/10 of a quart. I started cracking nuts/connections to deal with an air lock. Didn’t help. I finally put my mouth in the reservoir and sealed my face on the edges as good as I could and gave it all the pressure I could. That got things moving.
A few more times and then steering took care of the rest. Problem when I started it for first 30 seconds I had ATF leaking everywhere. This was due to my stupidness with the fittings at the Improved Racing compact thermal bypass (-6AN). Blaine sent me links to the 4 fittings (2 each). I had installed 2 of them backwards . Only took 4 days to figure that out. Once I did I finished bleeding the steering system. OSC has instructions on their website, Chris has them in his how-to, and @hosejockey61 explained it on BFH Garage video. Anyway, the most important thing is learning from Blaine, getting the right parts to have good on and offroad steering.It’s awesome. Drive down the highway one finger on the wheel nice and relaxed and not constantly correcting. It drives the same everywhere it goes. It’s a well-thought-out, tried-and-true system.
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Setrab and Transmission Thermostats Installation
These modifications are for those running an auto transmission, and especially the 42rle, and who live or wheel in environments that fluctuate between extreme hot and cold. If your goal is to get the transmission up to and keep it at a more static temperature then this is for you.
The 42rle is known to run hot. If you don’t have a temp gauge, get one. The sensor should be in the pan. ATF begins to break down in the 230+F range. You don’t want that. In the winter your transmission won’t even get to 100F. You don’t want that either. A Setrab 53-10748-01 and an Improved Racing Compact Thermostat together are one possible solution.
Setrab
The Setrab can mount in front of the radiator. It’s a good idea to purchase the Black Magic Brakes V-Bar here. If you plan a steering cooler too then you can find the setup here. Make sure and buy enough hose as well. See Blaine's pictorial guide to installing the Setrab here. See @sunnysideup_lj write up for installing the Setrab here.
Thermostat
The Improved Racing Compact Transmisssion Thermostat constantly allows 10% of ATF to pass through to the radiator and opens to 100% when the bypass temp is reached. There are a number of bypass temperatures you can select. I chose 165*F, so I will use that number below for illustration only.
On a stock rig the ATF flows from the bottom line on the transmission through the line that goes into the right side of the radiator. Then it comes out the left side of the radiator and goes back to the transmission top inlet.
With the Setrab and thermal bypass, ATF flows from the bottom line on the transmission and into the inline thermostat. If temps are below 165*F the fluid simply returns to the transmission through the top line on the transmission. Once the ATF warms up to 165*F it passes through the thermostat and goes to the right side of radiator, then out the left side of radiator, turns 90* and goes to the right side of the Setrab, out the left side of the Setrab, back through the thermostat and through the hard line into the transmission top inlet.
Parts you will need:
Thermostat:
https://www.improvedracing.com/comp...bGuxwIDxlk8_G9u35hsiaLgiHih9Gsdlshv7IdaK7wBUE
Fittings, purchase 2 of each:
1. -6 female swivel push lock
Hose Fitting, Push-Lock -6 AN JIC Female, Black (FIT-200106): Push-Lock Rubber Hose Fittings - Straight | Racetronix
2. -6 male x -6 ORB (O-ring boss)
Adapter, -6 AN ORB Male to -6 AN JIC Male, Black (ADF-495100): AN JIC Male » AN ORB Male Adapters | Racetronix
3. -6 ORB x -6 female swivel
Adapter, -6 AN JIC Female to -6 AN ORB Male, Black (ADF-6JF6R): AN JIC Female » AN ORB Male Adapters | Racetronix
4. -6 male flare x 3/8” flareless bite (compression)
3/8" JIC 37° x 3/8" Tube Fitting | Titan Fittings
The hose is 3/8" and you need enough to go from the thermostat to the right side of the radiator and from the left side of the Setrab to the upper inlet on the Thermostat. You also need 4 Oetiker clamps. Blaine uses the Insta-grip hose and I sourced it from him.
The numbers of the fittings above correspond to the numbers in pic 1 below (Blaine's)
Pic 1
Pic 2 shows how they fit together with the thermostat.
Pic 2
1. Note in pic 3 below that the location of the mount is in front of the exhaust and engine skid alongside the oil pan. You can see the type of bracket you need to fab up to mount the thermostat. I used a piece of 3/16" sheet aluminum. There are two possible bolt holes in the engine block you can use to mount the bracket. One holds the bracket for the 02 sensor. The other is empty. I think the holes are M10x1.5 (2004). I can correct this later if I find out that's wrong.
Pic 3
2. The thermostat comes with some mounting hardware. Use that to attach it to your bracket.
3. Make sure and mock up your bracket with attached thermostat several times to make sure everything will work before cutting your hard lines. The input and output on the thermostat are separated further than the lines in the stock routing. You will need to pull them apart when you mock it up so you cut them in line with each other. Otherwise the lower line will be too short when you separate them. I used a mini tubing cutter.
4. File off any sharp edges. Clean off any shavings and make sure the inside of the tube is clean. You can carefully use a q-tip dipped in ATF.
5. Connect fitting 3 to the thermostat.
6. Connect fitting 4 to fitting 3.
7. Connect fitting 2 to the thermostat.
8. Now put your bracket in place and loosely bolt the assembly to the engine block with your M10x1.5.
9. Connect fitting 4 to the hard lines.
10. Press fitting 1 on to the 3/8” hose. Some ATF in the lip of the hose and on the fitting helps. Heating the end of the hose for about 30 seconds with a heat gun helps too. You’re just trying to get it warm, don’t overdo it. The hose should slip on relatively easy then.
11. Now that you have one push fitting on the hose slide 2 Oetiker clamps on the hose (or constant tension clamps). 1 will go on each end (see Pic 3).
12. Measure hose from upper port to the left side of the Setrab. You route under the left side of the grill and up in the headlight cavity through the hole you drilled in the plastic. Don’t forget your Oetiker clamps (or constant tension clamps). Cut the hose the right length with hose cutters.
13. Measure hose from the lower port to the right side of the radiator. I route it straight forward and under the fan shroud to the right side of radiator to keep it away from the harmonic balancer. Use a hose cutter for a clean cut.
14. Make your final connections at the Thermostat. Attach the top one first so it’s easier to get to the bottom one after. Snug, not overly tight. No loctite on these fittings.
15. Start the Jeep and make sure there are no leaks.
16. If you lost some ATF when you breached the system be sure to check the level as described here and add as needed.
These modifications are for those running an auto transmission, and especially the 42rle, and who live or wheel in environments that fluctuate between extreme hot and cold. If your goal is to get the transmission up to and keep it at a more static temperature then this is for you.
The 42rle is known to run hot. If you don’t have a temp gauge, get one. The sensor should be in the pan. ATF begins to break down in the 230+F range. You don’t want that. In the winter your transmission won’t even get to 100F. You don’t want that either. A Setrab 53-10748-01 and an Improved Racing Compact Thermostat together are one possible solution.
Setrab
The Setrab can mount in front of the radiator. It’s a good idea to purchase the Black Magic Brakes V-Bar here. If you plan a steering cooler too then you can find the setup here. Make sure and buy enough hose as well. See Blaine's pictorial guide to installing the Setrab here. See @sunnysideup_lj write up for installing the Setrab here.
Thermostat
The Improved Racing Compact Transmisssion Thermostat constantly allows 10% of ATF to pass through to the radiator and opens to 100% when the bypass temp is reached. There are a number of bypass temperatures you can select. I chose 165*F, so I will use that number below for illustration only.
On a stock rig the ATF flows from the bottom line on the transmission through the line that goes into the right side of the radiator. Then it comes out the left side of the radiator and goes back to the transmission top inlet.
With the Setrab and thermal bypass, ATF flows from the bottom line on the transmission and into the inline thermostat. If temps are below 165*F the fluid simply returns to the transmission through the top line on the transmission. Once the ATF warms up to 165*F it passes through the thermostat and goes to the right side of radiator, then out the left side of radiator, turns 90* and goes to the right side of the Setrab, out the left side of the Setrab, back through the thermostat and through the hard line into the transmission top inlet.
Parts you will need:
Thermostat:
https://www.improvedracing.com/comp...bGuxwIDxlk8_G9u35hsiaLgiHih9Gsdlshv7IdaK7wBUE
Fittings, purchase 2 of each:
1. -6 female swivel push lock
Hose Fitting, Push-Lock -6 AN JIC Female, Black (FIT-200106): Push-Lock Rubber Hose Fittings - Straight | Racetronix
2. -6 male x -6 ORB (O-ring boss)
Adapter, -6 AN ORB Male to -6 AN JIC Male, Black (ADF-495100): AN JIC Male » AN ORB Male Adapters | Racetronix
3. -6 ORB x -6 female swivel
Adapter, -6 AN JIC Female to -6 AN ORB Male, Black (ADF-6JF6R): AN JIC Female » AN ORB Male Adapters | Racetronix
4. -6 male flare x 3/8” flareless bite (compression)
3/8" JIC 37° x 3/8" Tube Fitting | Titan Fittings
The hose is 3/8" and you need enough to go from the thermostat to the right side of the radiator and from the left side of the Setrab to the upper inlet on the Thermostat. You also need 4 Oetiker clamps. Blaine uses the Insta-grip hose and I sourced it from him.
The numbers of the fittings above correspond to the numbers in pic 1 below (Blaine's)
Pic 1
Pic 2 shows how they fit together with the thermostat.
Pic 2
1. Note in pic 3 below that the location of the mount is in front of the exhaust and engine skid alongside the oil pan. You can see the type of bracket you need to fab up to mount the thermostat. I used a piece of 3/16" sheet aluminum. There are two possible bolt holes in the engine block you can use to mount the bracket. One holds the bracket for the 02 sensor. The other is empty. I think the holes are M10x1.5 (2004). I can correct this later if I find out that's wrong.
Pic 3
2. The thermostat comes with some mounting hardware. Use that to attach it to your bracket.
3. Make sure and mock up your bracket with attached thermostat several times to make sure everything will work before cutting your hard lines. The input and output on the thermostat are separated further than the lines in the stock routing. You will need to pull them apart when you mock it up so you cut them in line with each other. Otherwise the lower line will be too short when you separate them. I used a mini tubing cutter.
4. File off any sharp edges. Clean off any shavings and make sure the inside of the tube is clean. You can carefully use a q-tip dipped in ATF.
5. Connect fitting 3 to the thermostat.
6. Connect fitting 4 to fitting 3.
7. Connect fitting 2 to the thermostat.
8. Now put your bracket in place and loosely bolt the assembly to the engine block with your M10x1.5.
9. Connect fitting 4 to the hard lines.
10. Press fitting 1 on to the 3/8” hose. Some ATF in the lip of the hose and on the fitting helps. Heating the end of the hose for about 30 seconds with a heat gun helps too. You’re just trying to get it warm, don’t overdo it. The hose should slip on relatively easy then.
11. Now that you have one push fitting on the hose slide 2 Oetiker clamps on the hose (or constant tension clamps). 1 will go on each end (see Pic 3).
12. Measure hose from upper port to the left side of the Setrab. You route under the left side of the grill and up in the headlight cavity through the hole you drilled in the plastic. Don’t forget your Oetiker clamps (or constant tension clamps). Cut the hose the right length with hose cutters.
13. Measure hose from the lower port to the right side of the radiator. I route it straight forward and under the fan shroud to the right side of radiator to keep it away from the harmonic balancer. Use a hose cutter for a clean cut.
14. Make your final connections at the Thermostat. Attach the top one first so it’s easier to get to the bottom one after. Snug, not overly tight. No loctite on these fittings.
15. Start the Jeep and make sure there are no leaks.
16. If you lost some ATF when you breached the system be sure to check the level as described here and add as needed.
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We don't live where you would consider it to be a colder place and that's not really the reason you would run one. For us, it is we live where it is a good idea to have a cooler that works as well as the Setrab does but we also go to places like Johnson Valley in the winter which is the most appropriate time for comfort to be out there. I've been there when the temps were 14 degrees F. Average is 40-50 degrees F.
Not mentioned but one of the things about the IR product that intrigued me is the fact that it is not a 100% bypass. It allows about 10% of the fluid to circulate to keep the system functioning as normal just with lower flow. It works like a radiator thermostat to go from that flow level to fully open with 100% flow as the temp dictates.
If anyone is in need, I've been using the Milwaukee hose cutters for a couple of years now and have found them to be an excellent tool.
Point of clarification on the heating of the hose to allow the push lock fittings to be installed easier. Don't over heat them. You are just warming them up to about where you can barely touch them with bare hands. Much more than that and you can start breaking down the hose and compromise it.
Thanks for the feedback. I can update those items, add some pictures, and post in the How-To section.
Half Brummel with unburied tail to re-spool the winch line. I did not know you could cut winch line easily and cleanly by heating up a steel putty knife with a propane or map gas torch and simply pressing it through the rope. Quick, effective, clean!
Blaine’s ST -Fairlead finally installed!
Blaine’s ST -Fairlead finally installed!
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Back of the LJ is getting aluminum rails for anchors to tie down bags and a small cooler. Two more to go.
Nice, How did you attach those Jeremy? I used 4 eye bolts into where the seat brackets attached.
Good morning. I attached them with 1/4-20 nutserts. There’s a double wall in the floorboard of the tub, but enough space in between for the nutsert wall to crimp.
Using the OEM bolt holes is a good solution too.
These are transom mount ratchet straps. 1.6” wide and about 4’ at longest. Using to hold my bags with tools and parts and fluids in to the floor anchors.
Got the Midland GMRS installed. Still need power. Reversed the winch controls so the top button is out and the bottom is in. More intuitive to me.
Went to try out the new steering off-road and check clearance of the cylinder hoses. I’m going to move the front axle back 1/8” on the driver side. Everything else clears well.
Getting flexy
Went to try out the new steering off-road and check clearance of the cylinder hoses. I’m going to move the front axle back 1/8” on the driver side. Everything else clears well.
Getting flexy
Final ride height points of interest:
Center of TCase Skid: 20”
Gas Tank Skid: 20”
Rt Rear Corner: 30 1/2”
Lt Rear Corner: 30 7/8”
Frame @ Rear CA: 22”
Frame @ Front CA: 21 1/4”
Rt Front Corner: 25 1/2”
Lt Front Corner: 25 11/16”
Center of TCase Skid: 20”
Gas Tank Skid: 20”
Rt Rear Corner: 30 1/2”
Lt Rear Corner: 30 7/8”
Frame @ Rear CA: 22”
Frame @ Front CA: 21 1/4”
Rt Front Corner: 25 1/2”
Lt Front Corner: 25 11/16”
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