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TJ Dana 44 rear axle seal leak driving me crazy

mrblaine

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Jerry and all, just for some observational input. I have a TJ Rubi with about 308k and have been suffering from this seal issue as well. I had to have the rear dif carrier bearings replaced at around 250k and replaced the original wheel bearings at the same time just because they were old. They were not leaking but one of the carrier bearings were sounding bad so I figured there would be trash in the gear oil because of that. I used Timken bearings and seals and they started leaking shortly after the install. I bought a new set of axles, bearings, seals and retainer plates just to make the change out quick and easy. I again utilized Timken Bearings and seals and they are leaking again. I had purchased another set of bearings and seals but have been putting things off until I can better determine the cause of the seal failure. I also used permatex gear oil silicone on the last install as a precaution. I have read here that the National seals seem to perform better so I bought a set just to compare. The National seals utilize a unique two piece design in the metal ring that compresses slightly to expand the rubber seal on the outside of the seal when the retainer plate is tightened. The inner seal design that seals the rotating axle also looks like a better design than the Timken. The original seals went for around 275k miles so there must be something different with the Timken that is inferior. I would sure like to see a set of original seals just to see to OEM design. I beleive they were Spicer but not sure. I would like to have one of them to compare. The Timken seals and packaging I have look legit, but the seals themselves are manufactured in Indonesia. The Nationals are Mexico so I guess that's just where we are with everything today. I'm going to install a new set of Timken bearings with the National seals and keep my fingers crossed. I am pretty confident the superior design of the National seal will cure the issue. I'll update in a few weeks after i get them changed.
It isn't just a name thing since Timken makes the 9912S.
 

TIMEX

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It isn't just a name thing since Timken makes the 9912S.
Timken makes Timken...maybe. There may be two or three companies that use the Indonesian manufacturer and Timken is one of them. I just can clearly see that the one sold under the National brand is clearly different and is a better design...and I among many others are having problems with the Timkens being sold. The Timken 9912S seals that I have wern't bought through Amazon so if they are counterfit it must be a widespresd thing.
 

mrblaine

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Timken makes Timken...maybe. There may be two or three companies that use the Indonesian manufacturer and Timken is one of them. I just can clearly see that the one sold under the National brand is clearly different and is a better design...and I among many others are having problems with the Timkens being sold. The Timken 9912S seals that I have wern't bought through Amazon so if they are counterfit it must be a widespresd thing.
The Timken 9912S is the same design seal as the National seal you are so enamored with. The 9912 is not the same as the 9912S. That was my point. The seal design is not brand specific.
 

TIMEX

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The Timken 9912S is the same design seal as the National seal you are so enamored with. The 9912 is not the same as the 9912S. That was my point. The seal design is not brand specific.
Save the smart ass cool breeze... I'm not enamared with anything. I just made the point that the Timkien 9912S that I have purchased from a regular parts house is inferior to the National 9912.....and the seal design is brand specific. Seal dimensions are not.
 

mrblaine

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Save the smart ass cool breeze... I'm not enamared with anything. I just made the point that the Timkien 9912S that I have purchased from a regular parts house is inferior to the National 9912.....and the seal design is brand specific. Seal dimensions are not.
Are the Timken 9912S of the expanding skirt design or the double raised ribs around the perimeter?
 

TIMEX

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Are the Timken 9912S of the expanding skirt design or the double raised ribs around the perimeter?
Nope ...they are just Orange with no rubber on the outer rim of the seal. In what says is a printed in the USA Timken 9912S box that states they are made in Taiwan and the seal itself has Indonesia molded in the rubber. May be counterfeit junk or just Timken going on the cheap but the bottom line is what I have are trash....and they clearly say 9912S. From a local independent parts house.
 

mrblaine

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Nope ...they are just Orange with no rubber on the outer rim of the seal. In what says is a printed in the USA Timken 9912S box that states they are made in Taiwan and the seal itself has Indonesia molded in the rubber. May be counterfeit junk or just Timken going on the cheap but the bottom line is what I have are trash....and they clearly say 9912S. From a local independent parts house.
Not sure who is fucking who but those are not 9912S seals.
Timken 9912S box and seal.
DSC_6048.JPG

CR out of a Spicer box.
DSC_6049.JPG

Yukon 9912
DSC_6050.JPG
 

TIMEX

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IMG_1214.JPG
IMG_1215.JPG

The National I have looks legit. The Timkins I have are either fake shit or Timken is going the down the cut corners route. I just ordered a set of Dana Spicers from the site you linked. The original Dana Spicer seals went more than 250k so they must be okay. This whole seal thing should be a non-issue....but we continue to get screwed by the hucksters. This is a perfect example. I'm sure the supposed to be 9912S seals I installed were these garbage seals, thus the leak.
 

mrblaine

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View attachment 284279View attachment 284280
The National I have looks legit. The Timkins I have are either fake shit or Timken is going the down the cut corners route. I just ordered a set of Dana Spicers from the site you linked. The original Dana Spicer seals went more than 250k so they must be okay. This whole seal thing should be a non-issue....but we continue to get screwed by the hucksters. This is a perfect example. I'm sure the supposed to be 9912S seals I installed were these garbage seals, thus the leak.
Either someone at Timken screwed up and put the wrong seals in the box or the vendor is messing about. I've used dozens and dozens of the Timken 9912S with the expandable skirt purely because of that design. The other style with the ribs around the perimeter is far too easy to nick on the way into the housing end which will leak.

The seal with the orange lip will never seal in a housing end, that is simply not how that style works. That is a drive in seal for something like a pinion, or output shaft on a t-case.
 

TIMEX

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Have you reached out to the company you bought it from? I would assume they have some sort of warranty or replacement option?
No...I just took them off my list of vendors. I don't care about the $7 seal. It's the rework and pain and money associated with that is the problem. I'm sure they would give me a new seal and say how sorry they were. Easier just to write them off.....
 

JeepinJake

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Bringing this thread back cuz I’m fighting the same damn leak…this last effort was with a brand new crown assembly shaft, bearing and assembly already pressed on.

It seems the consensus is that the only seals that are proven to work are the nationals or the spicer. Would this be a fair assumption?
 

mrblaine

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Bringing this thread back cuz I’m fighting the same damn leak…this last effort was with a brand new crown assembly shaft, bearing and assembly already pressed on.

It seems the consensus is that the only seals that are proven to work are the nationals or the spicer. Would this be a fair assumption?
You choose your own consensus and I'll keep using the Timken 9912S with the expandable skirts.
 
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Jeffreybomb

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No...I just took them off my list of vendors. I don't care about the $7 seal. It's the rework and pain and money associated with that is the problem. I'm sure they would give me a new seal and say how sorry they were. Easier just to write them off.....
I was talking about the axle, not the seal. You said the axle was new. Did you talk to the company you bought it from?
 

JeepinJake

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You choose your own consensus and I'll keep using the Timken 9912S with the expandable skirts.
Mr Blaine! Glad you weighed in, I forgot about the Timken. Can’t tell you how helpful reading your advice has been to me. Appreciate it.

Couple quick questions about how YOU DO this job:
Rtv on edge of seal or no?
Replace 4 nuts or factory with loctite?
45 foot lbs of torque on those nuts?

Thanks again
 

mrblaine

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Mr Blaine! Glad you weighed in, I forgot about the Timken. Can’t tell you how helpful reading your advice has been to me. Appreciate it.

Couple quick questions about how YOU DO this job:
Rtv on edge of seal or no?
Not with the Timken seal. That is exactly why I use it, so I don't have to seal the outer edge.
Replace 4 nuts or factory with loctite?
We always replace with either a Nyloc or Grade C top lock unless we are out away from where they are then we reuse existing.
45 foot lbs of torque on those nuts?

Thanks again
Don't know, never torqued one. We just tighten them evenly.
 
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machoheadgames

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I was talking about the axle, not the seal. You said the axle was new. Did you talk to the company you bought it from?
Timex responded to you thinking you were talking to him. You were talking to the OP I'm pretty sure, who has not responded to this thread since December 2020 from the looks of it.
 

machoheadgames

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Not with the Timken seal. That is exactly why I use it, so I don't have to seal the outer edge.

We always replace with either a Nyloc or Grade C top lock unless we are out away from where they are then we reuse existing.

Don't know, never torqued one. We just tighten them evenly.
Where do you get your 9912S from? RockAuto? Seems like Amazon is the only place shipping the false one, and that you get a legit one that works from other places.