Tunable Shock Options for Factory Mounts?

[Arthurius]

I will say @ChadH is not wrong. I can't afford to drop this money on my rig tomorrow but I also don't intend to. I have an excel spreadsheet that I am compiling with all of the wish list items for my LJ.

I recently went on an 8 hour drive and 5 day weekend to Moab. While im not a major rock crawler, I saw limitations in my rig that left me wanting more. Couple dents and scrapes in the shovel skid and a LOUD bang on the fuel skid tells me I need more lift and less belly. Trips to the Parker 425 race track have told me that I need more shock travel. I know doing that requires major mods.

I also drove 8-9 hours in a TJ at freeway speeds, so I also have a set of mass-backed ACC carpet or Bedrug, and some sound deadening on the list. I don't have money for that either, but I've been doing research on it nonetheless. Hell, I was researching coilovers before I started this thread.

 

[mrblaine]

I understand that. I will do more research into the process of outboarding, fab, and the shock selection that that opens one up to. My hope was that there was an option between off the shelf shocks and a fully custom setup in terms of cost.

I suppose I had better take up welding.. lol

To be very clear since Chad seems to struggle with the basics for some reason. My response that a bolt in shock should exist is very telling of how hard you should feel you are being pushed into something that you may or may not want.

I'll tend to operate from the position that you may not know what you don't know. If you aren't aware that there is a bit of performance left on the table by not doing an outboard, well then, now you are.

I've not been in touch with shock selection and availability for many years when I quit buying Fox shocks due to them not being available due to their restructuring. I don't know what is out there, I tend to stick with stuff I'm familiar with that I've been able to make work for what I want it to do.

That limits MY options but should not limit yours. Do some research, find some options you can post up and we'll take a look for you and see if it is something that may be doable.

 

[ChadH]

Your entire framing of this thread is dishonest and is full of the exaggerated hyperbole you are pretending to react against.

Here's your proof, since everyone here apparently thinks I'm full of shit.

 

[mrblaine]

I will say @ChadH is not wrong. I can't afford to drop this money on my rig tomorrow but I also don't intend to. I have an excel spreadsheet that I am compiling with all of the wish list items for my LJ.

I recently went on an 8 hour drive and 5 day weekend to Moab. While im not a major rock crawler, I saw limitations in my rig that left me wanting more. Couple dents and scrapes in the shovel skid and a LOUD bang on the fuel skid tells me I need more lift and less belly. Trips to the Parker 425 race track have told me that I need more shock travel. I know doing that requires major mods.

I also drove 8-9 hours in a TJ at freeway speeds, so I also have a set of mass-backed ACC carpet or Bedrug, and some sound deadening on the list. I don't have money for that either, but I've been doing research on it nonetheless. Hell, I was researching coilovers before I started this thread.

I would encourage you to avoid the sound deadening bullshit. I've been around several and for the time and expense, it doesn't deliver. Whatever you do, DO NOT tell Chad what the mass backed ACC carpet costs. He will stroke out on us and we might have to feel bad.

Second bit of advice, there was a comment that the outboarding was pennies compared to shock price. First off, that is completely backwards. But, if you think outboarding shocks is out of reach for your budget, coil overs will make your eyes water. Stick with shocks, there is no reason to do coil overs expect to dial in a ride height that is not able to be done easily with off the shelf springs and that would not be common.

 

[Arthurius]

My response that a bolt in shock should exist is very telling

To keep the thread on track, what about the King 2.5" shocks I posted in OP makes them too large of a piston for an LJ? Can this not be overcome by tuning?

And what if the use case is wanting to pre-run the Parker 425 track, for example? Fast and hard. Sounds like big pistons would be my friend. Is it the cost-to-travel ratio that you mentioned?

 

[mrblaine]

Here's your proof, since everyone here apparently thinks I'm full of shit.
View attachment 548796

Knock it off. I've not put anyone on ignore in awhile but you're just about there.

 

[jjvw]

Here's your proof, since everyone here apparently thinks I'm full of shit.
View attachment 548796

Oh yeah?

 

[jjvw]

Nothing about what I said was dishonest in any way. but if that's what you want to believe so you feel better about pushing people into something they cannot afford then go right ahead. Thats how I wound up in my current situation. By taking bad advice from people who did not understand, nor care to understand, somebody's situation that is not their own.

Your situation is not our problem. Quit trying to make it our problem. It's annoying.

 

[mrblaine]

To keep the thread on track, what about the King 2.5" shocks I posted in OP makes them too large of a piston for an LJ? Can this not be overcome by tuning?

And what if the use case is wanting to pre-run the Parker 425 track, for example? Fast and hard. Sounds like big pistons would be my friend. Is it the cost-to-travel ratio that you mentioned?

Here is the difficulty. Basic numbers for the sake of comparison.
A 2" piston has 3.14 square inches of surface area.
A 2.5" piston has 4.91 square inches of surface area.
That means the 2.5" is roughly 56% larger just to push the piston through the oil which is a big increase in resistance. That makes them inherently difficult to tune, not impossible by any stretch, just more difficult. It can be overcome, you just might have to work with a tuner that is familiar with the problems and will work with you. And for all we know, King may have done the work and has it figured out. Again, doubtful, but not impossible.

The harder you work the suspension, the more travel it needs to do the work. If you were to try it with bolt in shocks, you need a way to keep them from bottoming out hard. That comes from the tune to start and the tune will have to a be a lot firmer with less travel.

And just for the record, your comment about Chad being right is very wrong if you in the next breath mention wanting to run the Parker track fast and hard.

 

[mrblaine]

I understand that. I will do more research into the process of outboarding, fab, and the shock selection that that opens one up to. My hope was that there was an option between off the shelf shocks and a fully custom setup in terms of cost.

I suppose I had better take up welding.. lol

The fab work is pretty basic, tedious but basic and I've spent 100's of hours on the phone with folks walking them through the process and will do so again if needs be. It would not be outside the realm of common sense and basic economics to get all the cutting fitting done with a borrowed 110V welder to tack stuff in place and then pull in a hired mobile welder to do the final welding. It is just metal, it isn't like once you tack it in, it can't be changed very easily.

I'd certainly do that before I invested all the funds in getting set up to fab and weld if those are the only projects on the horizon. I also suspect that if you wanted to learn some fab work, you'd already be on the way to owning a good collection of tools to do so. There is zero shame in not building your own. I work with lots of folks who I have to show how to hold a nutdriver. I think no less of them because we have different skill sets. I guarantee you I suck at their jobs.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

FWIW OP, I wouldn't be spending that sort of money on shocks unless I was going with an outboard setup.

That's not to say you wouldn't benefit from tuned shocks at all. It is to say however that with shocks that fit in the factory locations you're going to be severely limited.

I can't stress how much an outboard conversion is worth it. We are talking a night and day difference in the handling and performance of your TJ. My TJ went from driving like a TJ to driving more like a sports car.

That sounds a lot like an exaggeration, but I promise you, it's not.

I think the issue lies with what actually made the difference? No one does this that I know of, but I suspect if you outboarded and put extra long ranchos on it, it would ride pretty much like any other TJ with ranchos, which would imply that the vast majority of the benefit you experienced were due to the shocks, and the outboard probably just got you a couple more inches of travel. (And possibly the opportunity to put those nice shocks on)

Hence, the reason for the original post looking for a way to get the benefit from the shocks without doing the outboard.

Farming out an outboard to a shop in Oklahoma or shipping cross country is an absolute non starter for me, so if I'm gonna do it I need to buy a real welder and get in some practice and then plan on having my Jeep out of commission for weeks while I scratch together enough 2-3 hour windows of time to get it done. As such, if there's an option to get most of the benefit (acknowledging that I'd be leaving some travel on the table), with bolt on parts I'm all about it.

I have 11" at each end right now, haven't identified a need for more, and would easily entertain going to 10" for a good performing bolt-on shock. 8.5" and I'd probably just stick with ranchos and blackmaxx until I'm ready to diy an outboard.

 

[Arthurius]

It can be overcome, you just might have to work with a tuner that is familiar with the problems and will work with you. And for all we know, King may have done the work and has it figured out. Again, doubtful, but not impossible.

The harder you work the suspension, the more travel it needs to do the work. If you were to try it with bolt in shocks, you need a way to keep them from bottoming out hard. That comes from the tune to start and the tune will have to a be a lot firmer with less travel.

I see, this picture is starting to be painted pretty clearly. While the Kings may be a great option, they are built within restraints. They may be the best option within those restraints but you're spending $3000 on that gamble from King or however much money with a tuner, when it may be better to do a cutsom setup for the shock travel increases alone. Plus the shock selection opens up i would assume.

I enjoy doing work myself, but this is outside of my current skillset. By trade I am an avionics tech, and specifically an expert in CCA soldering. I am very steady at working with my hands and I have done stick welding with minimal success in High School. I also have several friends that are paid welders today.

 

[Mr. Bills]

. . . I just spoke with them [Fox?] about this a few weeks ago as I have their older 2.0's with reservoirs, well overdue for a rebuild. Those are the 'lowest' quality shock that accutune says they can or will tune. The monotone shocks are not tunable according to them. Maybe someone out there can, but it's probably expensive. . . .

I recently had Fox 2.0 reservoir shocks for my 4x4 Sprinter van tuned by Tony Huff at https://www.overlandvehicledynamics.com. Tony is a long time jeeper who knows what he is doing and will tell you the truth about what can and cannot be done to Fox shocks.

Tony is also a friend, so please don't burden him with philosophical nonsense about jeep builds or adding a "fuse" to your recovery gear.

 

[Arthurius]

if I'm gonna do it I need to buy a real welder and get in some practice and then plan on having my Jeep out of commission for weeks while I scratch together enough 2-3 hour windows of time to get it done. As such, if there's an option to get most of the benefit (acknowledging that I'd be leaving some travel on the table), with bolt on parts I'm all about it.

I have 11" at each end right now, haven't identified a need for more, and would easily entertain going to 10" for a good performing bolt-on shock. 8.5" and I'd probably just stick with ranchos and blackmaxx until I'm ready to diy an outboard.

This is a great explanation of why the thread started.

I recently had Fox 2.0 reservoir shocks for my 4x4 Sprinter van tuned

Many have mentioned the Fox 2.0 reservoir shock and it sounds like that is my best option to have any type of tunability and rebuildability from the factory shock mounts? Is this correct? I think for the time being i will add those to the wish list but also price out the cost of going custom. This Jeep isn't my primary vehicle but i also don't want it sitting around and spending more time building it than driving it.

 

[mrblaine]

I have 11" at each end right now, haven't identified a need for more, and would easily entertain going to 10" for a good performing bolt-on shock. 8.5" and I'd probably just stick with ranchos and blackmaxx until I'm ready to diy an outboard.

But you have not expressed an interest in slamming around on the Parker track either.

 

[mrblaine]

This is a great explanation of why the thread started.




Many have mentioned the Fox 2.0 reservoir shock and it sounds like that is my best option to have any type of tunability and rebuildability from the factory shock mounts? Is this correct? I think for the time being i will add those to the wish list but also price out the cost of going custom. This Jeep isn't my primary vehicle but i also don't want it sitting around and spending more time building it than driving it.

The distinction between the steel body and aluminum body Fox remote reservoir shocks is not one that should be overlooked. Don't bother with the aluminum shocks.

 

[Mr. Bills]

. . . Many have mentioned the Fox 2.0 reservoir shock and it sounds like that is my best option to have any type of tunability and rebuildability from the factory shock mounts? Is this correct? I think for the time being i will add those to the wish list but also price out the cost of going custom. This Jeep isn't my primary vehicle but i also don't want it sitting around and spending more time building it than driving it.

Fox 2.0 steel body shocks may work for you if the extended and compressed lengths are appropriate for your suspension, if the shock ends fit your jeep, and if those shocks fit your budget.

Your first step should be to determine the shock ends and shock travel you have now, confirmed with actual measurements, so that you can catalog shop various shock brands and models with greater specificity.

 

[mrblaine]

I see, this picture is starting to be painted pretty clearly. While the Kings may be a great option, they are built within restraints. They may be the best option within those restraints but you're spending $3000 on that gamble from King or however much money with a tuner, when it may be better to do a cutsom setup for the shock travel increases alone. Plus the shock selection opens up i would assume.

I enjoy doing work myself, but this is outside of my current skillset. By trade I am an avionics tech, and specifically an expert in CCA soldering. I am very steady at working with my hands and I have done stick welding with minimal success in High School. I also have several friends that are paid welders today.

If it wasn't clear, you can make a shorter shock work. The limit may be how much abuse you can endure since the tune will have to be pretty stiff to slow down bottoming out and how much the shock is tearing up the mount(s) or itself/themselves. If the shock can't dampen the event, the extra force gets transferred into the chassis at much higher levels. At some point you will have to either slow down, accept the abuse, destroy the suspension or some combination thereof.

 

[mrblaine]

Fox 2.0 steel body shocks may work for you if the extended and compressed lengths are appropriate for your suspension and if those shocks fit your budget. Your first step should be to determine the travel you have now, and confirm with actual measurements, so that you can catalog shop with greater specificity.

Are they making the stem top for the fronts again?

 

[deadbeat son]

Are they making the stem top for the fronts again?

I don't think so. I bought a pair of eyelet adapters to bolt into the stem mount and take measurements to see if I can realistically fit an 8.5" eyelet mount Fox in the factory locations, but haven't gotten around to doing so yet.