What does a locker do? Do I need a locker?

[Stinger]

I've never had the rear auto locker give me any problems. I never even hear it besides the ratcheting sound. I mean it's a jeep not a sports car.

Also this began about slow speed turning with a front auto locker. Nothing to do with high speed high power turns. From a dead stop I can turn my wheel to full lock and make a sharp hairpin turn without any issues or sounds from my rear tires or rear auto locker. The problem I have is the front auto locker, put it in 4WD and steering becomes much much harder. The discussion was about this wether is was the front or rear auto locker that causes the steering issue.

I have proved that the front being an auto locker is my problem and has nothing to do with the rear.


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Maybe, just maybe, I can lend some assistance. On my Spider Tracs IF I backed off power it would unlock. Thus making it easy to turn. If I did not it would stay locked. Now I have had a couple of types of lockers in the front and will say that IF it is locked is is hard to turn! If it is unlocked as in backing off the power and it unlocks it is easy to turn.

Like I have said many times. I line up on my obstacle, engage the lockers and drive over the obstacle. The minute I am clear I hit my master switch and disengage both lockers. I would suspect you do the same thing unintentionally when you get over it and back off the throttle.

 

[TheFrenchMan]

Maybe, just maybe, I can lend some assistance. On my Spider Tracs IF I backed off power it would unlock. Thus making it easy to turn. If I did not it would stay locked. Now I have had a couple of types of lockers in the front and will say that IF it is locked is is hard to turn! If it is unlocked as in backing off the power and it unlocks it is easy to turn.

Like I have said many times. I line up on my obstacle, engage the lockers and drive over the obstacle. The minute I am clear I hit my master switch and disengage both lockers. I would suspect you do the same thing unintentionally when you get over it and back off the throttle.

That's what I think happens in the rear but once that front locker get any power it locks up completely unlike the rear where a small amount of power doesn't lock up both axles.

I'm going to be doing the rear brakes tomorrow and so I'll pull the rear driveshaft since I'll have my tools handy. I'll see if taking the rear out of the picture will change and steering at all in 4WD.


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[Stinger]

That's what I think happens in the rear but once that front locker get any power it locks up completely unlike the rear where a small amount of power doesn't lock up both axles.

I'm going to be doing the rear brakes tomorrow and so I'll pull the rear driveshaft since I'll have my tools handy. I'll see if taking the rear out of the picture will change and steering at all in 4WD.


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Please post your findings!

 

[mrblaine]

Well if you want to come by and drive a jeep that has auto lockers front and back you can see for yourself. If I floored it in 2WD both rears will lock up in a straight line. That's what it's supposed to do. If you turn the wheel and let out the clutch slowly and ease into the turn you will feel the rear outside disconnect as it needs to spin faster, even if I add more skinny pedal. That's it doing its job. Like I said before. The rear axle has more leverage on them in a turn then the front. You can stick with your "its not the front axle that makes you unable to steer" but I feel like that is completely incorrect. Goes completely against logic and everyone else's opinion I have talked to. If I can steer fine on turns in 2WD with my rear auto locker and in 4WD the steering becomes tighter and harder to turn on tight corners, the only thing that has changed is the front auto locker is now in the mix. The answer should be common sense! I've had fun going back and forth you but I don't think I can explain it any better.

"I rest my case!"

Happy wheeling!


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One of your sources that is leading you down the garden path which I explained very clearly to you has not made a single bit of difference in how you understand things and that's your buddy who incorrectly thinks he is unlocking the front when he hits the switch to turn. I can hold his front locker engaged with the switch off with one finger on a tire so if you and he believe it is unlocking, then there is no need to try and help you learn much.

I wheel in JV, I watch folks on the trail with me all day long day in and day out hit the front switch trying to turn and it never helps. Then when we get back to camp I break out the floor jack and give them a locker lesson. They are always astounded and from time to time you'll see the light bulb go on and they quit trying to ease the steering by wearing out their air compressor.

As for common sense, it isn't, it is just a common misconception. When you've got some more experience and some more education as to how this stuff works, you'll be fascinated to learn that the most experienced competitive rock crawlers use a selectable rear with cutting brakes and a Detroit in the front to get the most maneuverability and tight turning when it comes to dodging cones on tight courses. If there was a scintilla of merit to the case you're resting, they could not do that and the reason they can is because the front axle push comes from the rear being locked. They leave the rear open and just ease into the brake for whichever side is spinning or they lock the inside tire with the brake and drive the outside tire to help them turn when the front pulls them around.

You clearly don't understand two things, one is leverage and the other is that there is something wrong with your rear locker. I suspect that the front is adding enough torque to lock it up fully like it should be under power and you aren't quite understanding what is going on.

If your locker is ratcheting under power, then something is wrong. It doesn't get any more simple than that.

 

[JimmyMac]

Please excuse me as aim a newbe to this arena, but considering lockers for my 2002 TJ. From the discussions, I am migrating to Detroit locker on the front Dana 30, with Warn manual hub lockers. For the rear Dana 35, an Eaton electrical locker. Any feedback would be appreciated


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[Jerry Bransford]

Please excuse me as aim a newbe to this arena, but considering lockers for my 2002 TJ. From the discussions, I am migrating to Detroit locker on the front Dana 30, with Warn manual hub lockers. For the rear Dana 35, an Eaton electrical locker. Any feedback would be appreciated

Stock Dana 35 axle shafts are simply not strong enough for a locker. Once a locker is installed into a stock Dana 35, it's not a matter of if an axle shaft will break, it's more a matter of when it will break.

To lock a Dana 35 without fear of future breakage, you'd want to install a Super 35 kit like from Revolution Gear & Axle to upgrade the shafts with substantially stronger replacements. If the cost of a Super 35 is too much, you could instead install a Detroit Truetrac limited slip differential but its benefits are primarily only available on fairly flat terrain where both tires on the axle can remain in contact with the road or trail surface. Or you could replace the Dana 35 with a stronger axle like a Ford 8.8 but its costs are up there too by the time it has been converted so it could be bolted into a Wrangler TJ.

Where the front axle is concerned, while the Detroit Locker is a superb locker which I loved ran for years in my previous TJ, it's not a good choice for the front Dana 30. The Dana 30's housing is not strong enough to resist the kind of flex that can take out a Detroit Locker. There are lots of other locker options available for the Dana 30 including a lunchbox locker like an Aussie, or a full carrier locker like an ARB AIr Locker, though with big tires like 35's, upgraded shafts would be recommended up front too. With smaller tires, like 33" or smaller, the front Dana 30 would hold up fairly well with those types of lockers with its OE factory shafts.

By the way, "manual hub lockers" should really be called "manual hub unlockers" as the factory hubs are always locked. Manual hubs only give the ability to unlock them. And how are you going to install the Warn conversion kit? Warn stopped making the manual hub conversion kits years ago.

 

[billiebob]

Please excuse me as aim a newbe to this arena, but considering lockers for my 2002 TJ. From the discussions, I am migrating to Detroit locker on the front Dana 30, with Warn manual hub lockers. For the rear Dana 35, an Eaton electrical locker. Any feedback would be appreciated

Lockers are a fabulous choice. Breakage is related to horsepower, use/abuse. If you want to do the stupid stuff which will break anything and lead you down the road of endless upgrades start with D60s, fronr and rear. If you have not broken anything yet in that Dana 30/Dana 35 combination and just want to gain the traction selectable lockers will give any 4x4 then I lean toward the Eaton lockers which only require a switch and wire.... No need for an air compressor etc. AND I do recommend the SELECTABLE locker over any auto locker system. The auto lockers can engage when you are under throttle and WILL result in breakage. The SELECTABLE lockers only engage after you turn the switch. AND you can be judicace on how much throttle you apply. Me, I never break anything. But then I never do those stupid things which lead to breaking things. Common sense, a bit of restraint, a tight wallet will all help. But ultimately...... LOCKERS will out perform a winch. I've been stuck and lockers have pulled me out. Sometimes when an anchor was beyond the length of my winch line.

Anyone telling you do not add selectable lockers to the Dana 30/Dana 35 is speaking from a limited and excessive background. Flat out.... everything locked up works wonders. SELECTABLE lockers,,,, air or electric,,,, are the best AND you need to build according to YOUR use/abuse ratio.


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[mrblaine]

By the way, "manual hub lockers" should really be called "manual hub unlockers" as the factory hubs are always locked. Manual hubs only give the ability to unlock them. And how are you going to install the Warn conversion kit? Warn stopped making the manual hub conversion kits years ago.

Warn only quit because they sold the product line to Randy's Ring and Pinion who still sells their version under the Yukon brand.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

My last confusing conversation with a Randy's representative several years ago left me believing the conversion kit as I knew it was history. That's good news if it's definitely available from them but I still don't see a conversion kit on their website. Perhaps they have all the parts needed available separately?

 

[JimmyMac]

Thanks for the clarification. BTW the Warn site is still on line, however I did see kits under the Yukon brand
So from what I understand now, do not put any lockers on the Dana 35 (rear)
On the front, the Aussie or the ARB Air locker, however the comments on the Air locker were not convincing.
Maybe my misunderstanding, but I assumed from what I read that lockers on the front could at times make maneuvering difficult. I presumed that if I could unlock the hubs (on the front), I could avoid trouble while in 2WD.
Cost is not the only issue, but going forth with the right approach is


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[Jerry Bransford]

Thanks for the clarification. BTW the Warn site is still on line, however I did see kits under the Yukon brand.

Edit: I was caught up on Randy's site and wasn't thinking Yukon. Yukon does have their conversion kits. Warn sold their line to Randy's so I forget Yukon is who actually has it.

 

[mrblaine]

My last confusing conversation with a Randy's representative several years ago left me believing the conversion kit as I knew it was history. That's good news if it's definitely available from them but I still don't see a conversion kit on their website. Perhaps they have all the parts needed available separately?

You are correct in that the kit as you knew is no longer in production but the kit as Randy has bastardized it is still in production. I just adapted the 5.5 version to a 17" brake kit and they didn't even bother to remove the big Made in India tags from the stub shafts and the spindles are made overseas as well. They have also changed some dimensions for the flange offset which prevents total interchangeability between the Warn parts and the Yukon parts.

I purchased the 4.5" spindle to keep on hand for brake kit conversions and after doing one, the spacing was wrong when the customer tried to install with his Warn kit.