What is the best riding and performing lift kit for my 2001 TJ?
- Thread starter 01saharatj
- Start date
This is my viewpoint on springs, and I may be wrong but I believe it aligns with a few on here.
Springs affect the wheels recoil and rebound to and away from the vehicle. Stiffer the spring, the less body roll. Does this translate to more ride comfort? No, not really. The purpose of the shock is to take the input from the forces moving the spring and dampen (hmmm...) them and how it translates that movement through the vehicle which is where 98% of ride quality comes from.
TL/DR: Hard or soft spring, if running a good shock your butt dyno won’t notice much of a difference, if any, at all.
Springs affect the wheels recoil and rebound to and away from the vehicle. Stiffer the spring, the less body roll. Does this translate to more ride comfort? No, not really. The purpose of the shock is to take the input from the forces moving the spring and dampen (hmmm...) them and how it translates that movement through the vehicle which is where 98% of ride quality comes from.
TL/DR: Hard or soft spring, if running a good shock your butt dyno won’t notice much of a difference, if any, at all.
And that is why these discussions are shitfests. There is zero discernible difference in any perceptible aspect amongst any of the TJ spring rates when the suspension cycles while driving the vehicle. You do not alter, improve, degrade, or affect the amount of body roll with ANY TJ spring.
Take off your sway bars. Remove the shocks. I guarantee you will have no trouble whatsoever laying the body over on the bump stops during any halfway spirited turn. It won't matter what springs you have installed, so long as they are appropriate for the vehicle.
Do it again with your normal movement control devices and think again about what is doing what.
I'll remind the crowd of what my 8 point compression adjusters on just two shocks do to the body roll on mine. I can change the body roll from noticably present to barely there with only the shocks.
There is only one spring that should be used, and it’s not based on ride quality (since a spring doesn’t do that). If springs could be swapped for ride comfort, then you’d see a spring that has the following:
Exact same lift height (for a specific vehicle weight)
Exact same free length (for whatever shock length you are using)
Exact same coil bind (for bumpstops)
Different stiffness (lbs/in)
If anyone has two springs that have these same qualities I’d love to see it.
Exact same lift height (for a specific vehicle weight)
Exact same free length (for whatever shock length you are using)
Exact same coil bind (for bumpstops)
Different stiffness (lbs/in)
If anyone has two springs that have these same qualities I’d love to see it.
“But my procomp 3” springs ride way stiffer than my savvy 3” springs at the same ride height”
Okay, sure. So you’re totally okay with your pro comp springs falling off while the savvy springs are still doing their work? Free length is important.
Oh and side note, you’d have to use a cut down dump truck spring to prevent body roll if you don’t have good shocks and a sway bar. But if it’s not rolling due to the stiff springs, it absolutely will not work off road.
Okay, sure. So you’re totally okay with your pro comp springs falling off while the savvy springs are still doing their work? Free length is important.
Oh and side note, you’d have to use a cut down dump truck spring to prevent body roll if you don’t have good shocks and a sway bar. But if it’s not rolling due to the stiff springs, it absolutely will not work off road.
Let's go back to my extreme examples. A solid block of steel and a Slinky that both provide the same ride height. One has a spring rate of several hundred tons per inch. The other can't even support it's own weight before collapsing and going solid. One is hard. The other is soft, until it isn't. Both provide the same ride height.
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Exactly. So then comes the proposition - the stiffer your springs are, the less value and benefit you get out of your shocks. Using the adjuster on your shock or an even better shock (if we are using extremes) like a bypass, let’s you get all the tuning out of an easier cycling spring.
So then the conclusion. Use the longest free length spring you can, that still provides the ride height you want, without having coil bind before your bumpstop. Boom, a great spring. And wait, what springs do this - savvy and Currie? Huh, seems like they know something......
Correct, as long as it is understood that the desire for free length is simply to maintain some amount of spring downforce on the tire for as long as possible and to keep the springs from knocking around at full shock extension.
Right, or loss of pressure on the dropped tire because not enough when the shock are extended. I also edited my post, because someone knows something and I wonder how they know it? Winning races?
You’ll have to ask him if he can hang on but I’ve lost my grip and am currently falling backwards in slow motion while yelling the word “nooooooooooooooooo” GL
Metalcloak pretends to know, but they forgot about the upward half of the equation.
Blaine you win, I agree it is a "shitfest".
Think of the good side though, endless interweb suspension experts make more work for you in the end.
That’s why their “hi lines” work well, extra bump needed for springs means the tires never get thereMetalcloak pretends to know, but they forgot about the upward half of the equation.
Blaine you win, I agree it is a "shitfest".
Does that mean you are now in agreement?
Blaine has been in this industry for a long time, his brake kits are awesome and I buy them from Savvy regularly. Blaine builds some of the best rock crawler rigs in SoCal. Blaine is invaluable asset to this TJ forum, I just wish he would debate his suspension theory so new TJ owner could learn why or how things actually work, but I understand why he calls debate on the interweb a shitfest.
When I join this forum my hope was it was different than Pirate or YellowBullet.
Yes. Well, no. Technically he had his in 2wd the entire time.
The way Blaine builds is equal parts KOH as it is DD.
My wife and I spent a week playing in the JV sand and played in the rocks the last day (unfortunately had a front driveshaft that was barely hanging on so couldn't do more). The next day we went out to grab pizza and drove over 2k miles home comfortably going the speed limit (80mph through a good portion of it).
Glad to hear your had a great week in Johnson Valley and you made it home safely. Sorry you had a driveshaft failure, was it an alignment issue?
Did you defend the indefensible over there, too?
His build philosophy isn't that difficult to figure out. And he is very open about discussing it so long as you make the effort to understand how and why it works as well as it does. You saying nonsense things like his builds limp to the trailhead aren't doing you any favors.