The satisfaction that you feel when rowing your own vehicle simply doesn't translate to running an AR instead of the SL. I wouldn't expect anyone to enjoy the AR more than the SL if they appreciate road manners.
What makes RockJock better than JKS or BDS? OR Auto VS Man Pt37
- Thread starter TerryD
- Start date
The satisfaction that you feel when rowing your own vehicle simply doesn't translate to running an AR instead of the SL. I wouldn't expect anyone to enjoy the AR more than the SL if they appreciate road manners.
I'm much happier with my 42RLE now after significantly raising the 3-4 and 4-3 shift points.
Driving with OD on is more fun and less frustrating than I could have ever hoped. Using the skinny pedal to kick down from 4-3 used to be awful and only temporary. Now, the kick-down is smooth and 3 holds at the appropriate speeds/RPMs. I'm super happy.
Edit: I used a HP Tuners MPVI2+, which can adjust the 05/06 shift points….I don’t know if it can adjust the shift points in the 04 and earlier models.
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HP Tuners MPVI2+ and two universal credits.
A fellow member showed me how to make the changes.
Edit: The HPTuners device can adjust the 05/06 shift points….I don’t know if it can adjust the shift points in the 04 and earlier models.
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Stock for stock? Who here has a stock jeep? Who here even wants one?
If you would like another example, I can compare my LJ to my fuel injected CJ-7 with a Ford T-19 manual transmission with 6:32:1 1st gear, Dana 300 transfer case with 2.62:1 low range, 4.88 axle gears and 35" tires.
My LJ with 42RLE automatic transmission (2.80:1 1st gear), a similar 2.72:1 low range, 5.38 axle gears and 35" tires is easier to drive at rock crawling speeds than the CJ with manual transmission, can go just as slow, and is comfortable to drive at 75+ mph for hours at a time, something that could not be said about my CJ.
Advocating that a manual transmission is "better" than an automatic off road is old thinking, not uncommon among those who do not have automatics, just as believing that an Antirock is just as good as a SwayLoc on the highway (or good enough as some have written) is a common belief among those with no actual SwayLoc experience.
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This is only true if you look at it from a narrow perspective. There are things a manual is better at than an auto.
Prime example: swinging the rig between forward and backward to get out of a mud/snow bog. This isn’t possible with an auto simply because you lose momentum by the time it shifts.
You also have more “feel” in mud with a manual, preventing unnecessary tire slippage. One can learn this with an auto, but it takes a lot of driver seat time to master.
Neither transmission is better. I have an auto because these days I mainly wheel where it’s benefits shine more often. But I recognize that both have their strengths and weaknesses.
You just proved my point with examples of when a manual transmission is "better" and when an automatic will be just as good as the "better" manual transmission, followed by your acknowledgement that there are pros and cons to each and that neither is "better."
As I said, advocating that a manual transmission is "better" than an automatic off road is old thinking,
That's bullshit. There is no fucking way you can clutch, shift, clutch and shift faster that an auto goes from drive to reverse. If your auto shifts that slow, fix it.
Not really.
You compared the auto vs manual debate to the Antirock vs Swayloc on the highway debate.
In the latter, there is a very clear winner. Clear to those that have tried both.
In the former, there is no clear winner. There are some scenarios where an auto is the better choice, and others where a manual is preferrable.
It is not “old thinking” to prefer a manual, it is a valid preference that can be based on where one primarily wheels.
I don't buy the for the reasons already stated. You aren't faster at manually shifting than the auto transmission is.
I don't buy that either when feeling the loss of traction is the same in mud, rocks, snow, or pavement. The feeling must be learned regardless of the transmission. And in the end, controlling that loss of traction is always going to be done with more nuance with the automatic.
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Not bullshit. The goal is to trample a path in the form of a pendulum arc.
With a manual, you are able to preemptively clutch at the right moment so the shift happens quickly.
Where the autos I’ve driven don’t take kindly to shifting into reverse while in motion. Therefore, by the time you reach the crest of the arc, stop, shift into reverse, 9 times out of 10 you are going to slide back into the hole.
I may not be doing a good job of explaining this technique, but it is very real. It makes a lot more sense once you’ve seen it in action.
The feeling I am describing is tied to the bite point. As you’re letting go of the clutch, if the car doesn’t start moving, you know your tires are slipping. You don’t feel this with an auto, or at least not nearly as much.
We do something similar in the snow in Minnesota on the way to high school in the winter mornings. All I had at the time to do the rocking pendulum swing were automatics. It isn't all that tricky.
I know what you are describing and yes you do.
When the idiot Texans who moved to Colorado get stuck in the snow, I can teach it to them right there in the middle of the road when I feel helpful.
I’m glad you’re such a pro with the auto.
I am simply explaining my observations. I saw many times autos struggle to do what the manuals did in the scenarios described above. These were offroad experienced drivers, not teenager messing around a high school parking lot.
I can't help it that a bunch of Minnesota high schoolers in the 90s understood more about throttle control than your group of experienced off road drivers do.
If we are going off of observation rather than actual experience, I'd never own or drive an auto.
Or perhaps the conditions and their severity was different.
Without an apples to apples comparison, this is no different than arguing with the people that say stock TJ steering is up to 37s.
I don’t need to experience a bolton longarm rig to make a decision on its usefulness to me. Seeing one almost roll over on a climb was enough.
Not really. Learning enough skill and understanding to get a front wheel drive car with all terrain tires out and moving through many of inches of wet snow before the plows arrive translates into relatable skills that can be built upon later in life in other contexts.