Whats this metal from my differential?

tworley said:
Id confirm your gear ratio. Also check the shims like jjvw suggests. This is the best picture I have of stock shims that are noticeably thicker.

Our buddy took a look and guessed that maybe you do have a thin shim from factory (hes seen them before) and that it was nicked just enough when you put your new shafts in that it caused it to catch on something and finally tore apart

View attachment 63707


My wife picked it up at the Southwest Mall here in Littleton. Tungston in what I would call a brushed silver outside, inside is gold colored.
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I will start with that. Gear ratio should be stamped on the gear, right?

Does your friend does this for work and would want a new client? Is the cost to have a shim like this replaced almost worth it to just upgrade to new gear ratio since I'm guessing the carrier has to be out, or is it cheap enough that it's worth just replacing the shim and saving the money till next year.
 
That is a shim... That looks like a Rubicon so get ready to deal with the sensor pain when you pull that carrier.

It may have just been something that's been floating around there since some previous owner did it but that is pretty weird.
 
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MaloStapalo said:
I will start with that. Gear ratio should be stamped on the gear, right?

Does your friend does this for work and would want a new client? Is the cost to have a shim like this replaced almost worth it to just upgrade to new gear ratio since I'm guessing the carrier has to be out, or is it cheap enough that it's worth just replacing the shim and saving the money till next year.
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How many miles since the axle shafts went in?

I would assume replacing the shim means a new setup. In this case, you run a pattern with the replacement on either side to see where it fits best. That should be no more than 3 tests.

Again, this assumes the loose shim came from the one of the main bearings. I also wonder where the other half is. Is it still in place? Is so, then you know which side it came from and I think I would replace it and keep an eye on the diff until spring.

The plunger sensor isn't that troublesome. I cut my stick out of a 2x4 and tied I thin piece of wire around it. It's hanging off the guy's tool box and is still used occasionally.
 
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MaloStapalo said:
Recently I had new revolution axle shafts installed on my dana 44 since I had a small leak passenger side at the wheel seal from the oem. Everything has been feeling normal and lockers still work like they should.

I drained my diff to put in new oil and these were stuck to the magnetic drain plug. Are they a chewed up shim? The carrier wasn't removed for the axle shaft change and I really dont want to pull my diff cover. I am doing a regear and overhaul next spring so as long as nothing is in danger of exploding I can rest easy. View attachment 63667View attachment 63668
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OOH-YEA SHIM
 
AndyG said:
That is a shim... That looks like a Rubicon so get ready to deal with the sensor pain when you pull that carrier.

It may have just been something that's been floating around there since some previous owner did it but that is pretty weird.
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It is a Rubicon. When I put the diff cover on I cleaned everything out really well with brake cleaner so its recent within the last 5 months
 
jjvw said:
How many miles since the axle shafts went in?

I would assume replacing the shim means a new setup. In this case, you run a pattern with the replacement on either side to see where it fits best. That should be no more than 3 tests.

Again, this assumes the loose shim came from the one of the main bearings. I also wonder where the other half is. Is it still in place? Is so, then you know which side it came from and I think I would replace it and keep an eye on the diff until spring.

The plunger sensor isn't that troublesome. I cut my stick out of a 2x4 and tied I thin piece of wire around it. It's hanging off the guy's tool box and is still used occasionally.
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It's been about 500 miles since the shafts were installed. Did it on 10/30.

I really think this may be out of my skill level if I have to have the gears remarked and aligned. Any suggestions on the front range? If I have to I'll bring it there.
 
MaloStapalo said:
I will start with that. Gear ratio should be stamped on the gear, right?

Does your friend does this for work and would want a new client? Is the cost to have a shim like this replaced almost worth it to just upgrade to new gear ratio since I'm guessing the carrier has to be out, or is it cheap enough that it's worth just replacing the shim and saving the money till next year.
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No just a very skilled buddy of ours. He's building a new shop right now and has his hands full. Seems like a minor repair all things considered. I've used Edge Automotive in Englewood when I installed a vibrating Dana 30 last year. The pinion depth was incorrect from the PO and they rebuilt it for me. IIRC it was $500. All they did was remove a shim, ran a pattern, and put it all back together
 
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tworley said:
No just a very skilled buddy of ours. He's building a new shop right now and has his hands full. Seems like a minor repair all things considered. I've used Edge Automotive in Englewood when I installed a vibrating Dana 30 last year. The pinion depth was incorrect from the PO and they rebuilt it for me. IIRC it was $500. All they did was remove a shim, ran a pattern, and put it all back together
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I'm going to send them an email. Either way it looks like my jeep wont be moving for a little while. It's going to be at least December before I am able to take 2 days to go down to Denver.

Now, we are probably all in agreement that I should not drive it 65mph a 100 miles through mountain roads? I can sign up for premier AAA and get the 100 miles towed. Its 106 miles from my house to Edge, but I can meet the tow truck in east vail and that will drop it below 100 miles. What a rough month.

For those that wanted to see the diff pulled, if i have to take it to a shop then it's out of my skill level and i will leave the diff cover on and fill with cheap oil to transport.
 
MaloStapalo said:
View attachment 63667
View attachment 63668
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For comparison, this is a Dana 44 shim.
1ace6e2da3104926907ebabfd95c48cd.jpg
 
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@Rob5589 @tworley @Boinked @jjvw

Alright so got it to the shop in Denver and *drumroll*.....it was a pinion shim. First, thanks to all of you. You all gave the right advice to not drive it. The shop yall recommended in Denver is great, super great guys and I felt perfectly comfortable leaving my jeep with them.

So, iirc, they said what happened was something started to let the bearing race spin on the pinion and then that created friction and heat and chewed up the shim. Eventually that friction would have heated up enough that the bearings would have begun to melt and everything would have met a very dangerous ending. Also, stock 4.10 gears.

On a positive note, since this was pretty unavoidable, I am extremely lucky I found it when I did. No damage to the housing, shafts, or locker. Fluid changes really pay off, which is the only way I would have found this.

Now, the fix. Since this was completely a surprise, I have no real budget left for the jeep. I was planning on a regear in the spring for the 35"s next year and considered pulling f and r to do it now but I am already missing one day of work and have to get back home soon. Put in a new master install kit from Dana, T
they are going to try to dimple the race bearing on the pinion to make it grab and hope this holds as a band aid till spring. I should hear today if they were successful in this.

Thanks for everyone's help!
 
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MaloStapalo said:
@Rob5589 @tworley @Boinked @jjvw

So, iirc, they said what happened was something started to let the bearing race spin on the pinion and then that created friction and heat and chewed up the shim. Eventually that friction would have heated up enough that the bearings would have begun to melt and everything would have met a very dangerous ending. Also, stock 4.10 gears.

On a positive note, since this was pretty unavoidable, I am extremely lucky I found it when I did. No damage to the housing, shafts, or locker. Fluid changes really pay off, which is the only way I would have found this.

Now, the fix....Put in a new master install kit from Dana...they are going to try to dimple the race bearing on the pinion to make it grab and hope this holds as a band aid till spring. I should hear today if they were successful in this.
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Glad they were able to help you out!

If they are putting in a new master install kit that should include new races. I would call and confirm.

The minimum kits only include new pinion nut/seal/shims, carrier shims, crush sleeve and ring gear bolts.

The master kits include all of that plus new bearings (which include new races).
 
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tworley said:
Glad they were able to help you out!

If they are putting in a new master install kit that should include new races. I would call and confirm.

The minimum kits only include new pinion nut/seal/shims, carrier shims, crush sleeve and ring gear bolts.

The master kits include all of that plus new bearings (which include new races).
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Oh yeah, new bearings and races. They were great to work with and kept me updated. I felt bad because it took 4 hours for the tow truck to come and I hope I didnt waste too much of their time. I'm going to go pick it up after lunch. I'm in cherry creek now eating.

They were able to band aid it and he said they're confident I won't have any problems for a very long time, especially considering I will probably drive it 3,000 miles total before I get the regear done.
 
If you have new races then I wouldn't call it a band-aid but rather a permanent fix. Unless there is something else going on that caused the old race to start spinning...

Either way, glad you will be up and running again. Ive been debating whether or not I want those guys to regear my new high pinion Dana 30 and weld my brackets on or if I want to try and do it all myself. It would be quick and easy work for them but I also want the experience.
 
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Don't even get me started! I nearly needed therapy after my last differential experience.
 
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Rob5589 said:
I can say I never saw a pinion race spin (that I recall anyway), carrier races a bunch, never a pinion. Weird.
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Yeah, thats what they said. But I did double check, it was the race spinning on the pinion and that heated everything up and the thinest shim is what deformed first. I also had some pitting on a side bearing as well. Looks like it was just time to have the axle redone. I am at 102xxx.
 
tworley said:
If you have new races then I wouldn't call it a band-aid but rather a permanent fix. Unless there is something else going on that caused the old race to start spinning...

Either way, glad you will be up and running again. Ive been debating whether or not I want those guys to regear my new high pinion Dana 30 and weld my brackets on or if I want to try and do it all myself. It would be quick and easy work for them but I also want the experience.
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Drove it back and everything seemed good. I will have them do my regear sometime early 2019. You really only get one shot to make those brackets on there correctly, right? I dont know if I would want that kind of learning experience if I got it wrong
 
MaloStapalo said:
Drove it back and everything seemed good. I will have them do my regear sometime early 2019. You really only get one shot to make those brackets on there correctly, right? I dont know if I would want that kind of learning experience if I got it wrong
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Glad its working out. Chris and Scott are pretty standup guys. Always willing to chat and have stayed late to help me out on a couple of things. I had a set of G2 gears I purchased thru them and it had the incorrect ring gear bolts. I called them back and they found an unopened set for me within a couple of minutes, gave me a discount on a ARB compressor the next weekend for my troubles.

The brackets are a trial and error process. Tack them on, cycle the suspension, then grind off and re-adjust. Though for a front axle I dont see much adjustment needed. I can compare to the other one on the garage floor but as long as the perches are flat (to a certain degree) I think it wont be as difficult as it is on a rear axle.
 
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