Chinese Antirock

[Zorba]

Then perhaps you can get out of your own skin for a second or two and stop bitching quite so much about how the auto industry is abusing you. What I said is how the vast majority of folks use keys and vehicles, you and a few other exceptions does not change that nor does it lend any credence whatsoever to your griping.

But its *FUN* to bitch about things! People who don't do things my OBVIOUSLY superior way are lacking in the brain department, dontcha know? *JOKE*

Besides, the auto industry really IS causing me grief with their bullshit - minority or not, the annoyance is real.

 

[williambmac]

No, its removing a useful feature and replacing it with a bullshit feature instead. Its quite simple. I very often need to unlock and access the passenger side door. Your way has me walking around to the driver's side, unlocking that, opening the door, hitting the unlock switch, closing the door, then walking back to the passenger side to open that.

Of course, that was "solved" with the application of more stupid "technology" and now everyone has a GINORMOUS key fob that uses batteries that die, wears out, gets fucked up, etc, etc, etc. Never mind that is expensive to replace. Wife's car has one - it works but at what cost?

It's useful if you don't have remote keyless entry. If you have RKE, there is no use for it. You want to open the passenger door for your wife, girlfriend, boyfriend,kid....... walk up to the door and hit the remote 2x , then open the door. Done.
Now if you don't have RKE like on our TJ's thats a different story. I use my passenger lock cylinder all the time.

If you call todays technology stupid, I do partially agree with you. It's more shit to go wrong in a vehicle. I hate it because I get to diagnose the shit all the time. But..... unfortunately this is what the majority of todays population wants.

 

[Zorba]

But..... unfortunately this is what the majority of today's population wants.

Oh, I'm well aware. Effete Americans and all that. If I could buy a new car by LINE ITEM instead of money sucking "packages" I would. If I could buy a new car without all the bullshit, I would. As it is, I think/hope I can keep my old junk running for about another 25 years, then it won't matter anymore.

 

[TheBoogieman]

But its *FUN* to bitch about things! People who don't do things my OBVIOUSLY superior way are lacking in the brain department, dontcha know? *JOKE*

Besides, the auto industry really IS causing me grief with their bullshit - minority or not, the annoyance is real.

A Dem has hacked Zorba's account!

 

[mrblaine]

It's useful if you don't have remote keyless entry. If you have RKE, there is not use for it. You want to open the passenger door for your wife, girlfriend, boyfriend,kid....... walk up to the door and hit the remote 2x , then open the door. Done.
Now if you don't have RKE like on our TJ's thats a different story. I use my passenger lock cylinder all the time.

If you call todays technology stupid, I do partially agree with you. It's more shit to go wrong in a vehicle. I hate it because I get to diagnose the shit all the time. But..... unfortunately this is what the majority of todays population wants.

It ain't that hard to add RKE to the TJ. Even easier if you don't take the doors off very often.

 

[Zorba]

This reminds me of our old '63 GMC. Yes, it had a keyhole on the passenger side, but its usefulness was limited. You could lock/unlock the door from the inside or the outside (with key), but not both. If the door had been locked from the inside, the key wouldn't unlock it from the outside!

 

[Mrholland]

I wonder if consumers had this same conversation 60yrs ago resulting in trucks having lock cylinders added to the drivers door?

Is it a way to save money, or a shift in our culture?

 

[mrblaine]

I wonder if consumers had this same conversation 60yrs ago resulting in trucks having lock cylinders added to the drivers door?

Is it a way to save money, or a shift in our culture?

Oh I'm sure there was a group of folks who bitched about keys and electric starters over the arm breaking old reliable hand crank in the front. Having cycled the flywheel on the side of my dad's Model B John Deere tractor until I thought my arms were gonna fall off, fuck that hand start shit.

 

[Zorba]

Is it a way to save money, or a shift in our culture?

Yes!

Auto industry has a way of removing useful features, then using far more expensive "technology" to compensate. The door locks are but one example. They fucked up rearward visibility to the point of our benevolent OverLords decreeing backup cameras in all vehicles - which requires the ever detested screen in the dash. That was thanx to the "high beltline" styling that hit sometime post Y2K. Wing windows (and fenderwell vents) were removed, so they could sell more cars with A/C - even in climates that otherwise wouldn't really need it. Increasingly small rearview mirrors - especially on trucks - generated the "need" for "blind spot monitoring", when all that is really needed is a convex spot mirror (such as I added to my Jeep).

 

[Mrholland]

I do get the cultural shift towards technology, a way to make money and to feed the needs of lazy people.

Perhaps my earlier message was too cryptic. @Zorba you were right there with your door lock comment on your 63. Not many years before that, Chevy trucks didn't have a lock cylinder on the drivers handle.

 

[mrblaine]

Yes!

Auto industry has a way of removing useful features, then using far more expensive "technology" to compensate. The door locks are but one example. They fucked up rearward visibility to the point of our benevolent OverLords decreeing backup cameras in all vehicles - which requires the ever detested screen in the dash. That was thanx to the "high beltline" styling that hit sometime post Y2K. Wing windows (and fenderwell vents) were removed, so they could sell more cars with A/C - even in climates that otherwise wouldn't really need it. Increasingly small rearview mirrors - especially on trucks - generated the "need" for "blind spot monitoring", when all that is really needed is a convex spot mirror (such as I added to my Jeep).

When your only tool is a hammer, every solution is a nail. Or put another way, when you are predisposed to be the victim, the oppressors are picking on you.

They didn't fuck up rear visibility on purpose to sell cameras. There were lots of little tykes and bikes squashed in driveways hiding behind cars long before that styling became more prevalent. There were and still are lots of pick-ups with tail gates always up that benefit from back up cameras. There are crap tons of SUV's that benefit from them. And lest we forget, cargo vans have never had good rearward visibility. There isn't much in this world that looks nicer than an old Suburban panel but you ain't seeing shit out the back.

Wing windows are an added complexity that only appealed to a few once reliable AC became viable. They complicate clean styling, they add another piece of glass and the carrier is problematic at best and lest we forget, very easy to break into. They didn't delete them to sell more AC, they deleted them because they needed to go. At large scale production levels, the vagaries of small climate pockets fail to have much sway.

I'm okay with you missing certain items, we all like what we like. I'm not okay with the logic used to bitch about it.

And just so you know, it is doubtful that I will ever own another new vehicle since I despise the technology carriers they have become.

 

[SvtLdr]

Yes!

Auto industry has a way of removing useful features, then using far more expensive "technology" to compensate. The door locks are but one example. They fucked up rearward visibility to the point of our benevolent OverLords decreeing backup cameras in all vehicles - which requires the ever detested screen in the dash. That was thanx to the "high beltline" styling that hit sometime post Y2K. Wing windows (and fenderwell vents) were removed, so they could sell more cars with A/C - even in climates that otherwise wouldn't really need it. Increasingly small rearview mirrors - especially on trucks - generated the "need" for "blind spot monitoring", when all that is really needed is a convex spot mirror (such as I added to my Jeep).

How well does your new convex mirror work when it's dark outside?

 

[SvtLdr]

it is doubtful that I will ever own another new vehicle since I despise the technology carriers they have become.

^^^ sad but true.

 

[Zorba]

How well does your new convex mirror work when it's dark outside?

Its fine, why? I've run convex spot mirrors on every vehicle that I've ever owned. Many/most of the more recent ones came with them from the factory, but for those that didn't, the stick on ones work.

 

[Zorba]

They didn't fuck up rear visibility on purpose to sell cameras. There were lots of little tykes and bikes squashed in driveways hiding behind cars long before that styling became more prevalent. There were and still are lots of pick-ups with tail gates always up that benefit from back up cameras. There are crap tons of SUV's that benefit from them. And lest we forget, cargo vans have never had good rearward visibility. There isn't much in this world that looks nicer than an old Suburban panel but you ain't seeing shit out the back.

Even with those, decent side mirrors and the ability to be able to back up using them precludes the need for expensive technology. Americans have become effete idiots. I was taught how to back my vehicle using only the mirrors, which I still do very often to this day. The other trick is to open the driver's door and look back! Used that technique just last night backing my Jeep into my driveway, I learned that from my dad (dates from the days when cars didn't always have passenger side mirrors, but can be useful even when they're present.). Funny story: My mother tried it once, and almost fell out!

As for tykes and bikes, checking behind the vehicle before getting into it coupled with a modicum of SA prevents those kinds of tragedies. But Americans are too busy with their fucking smartphones to be bothered with anything resembling correct vehicle operating techniques. So our OverLords felt compelled to be perceived as "doing something about it".

Just to illustrate how stupid most drivers apparently are these days: I had a new engine put in the old MBZ a few years ago. It shouldn't have needed one that soon, but it did, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, there was a problem with the throttle linkage and it got stuck with the car accelerating with no control from the pedal. While completely NOT desirable behavior in a motor vehicle, I was able to control it and safely pull off using a combination of the gearshift's neutral feature, limited braking, and the ignition key! Complete common sense to me, but my mechanic (after I chewed his ass...) expressed surprise/admiration that I was able to control the car! The only thing surprising to me was that he was surprised!

Another one: Ran over a screwdriver and got a horrid bump, bump, bump from a rear tire. Pulled off, coincidentally right by a road crew. They felt compelled to tell me that they weren't allowed to assist me - that's fine, don't need help anyway. I didn't at first know if it was a flat or if I'd lost a rear halfshaft. The guy asked me "What are you going to do?" like it was something horrid. "Easy. If its a flat tire, I'm going to change it and be on my way. If I've lost a halfshaft, I'll call a tow truck." I guess most/many people are helpless in situations like this? Anyway, it was a flat so I changed it.

Hell, I even had someone express surprise that it was possible to fix a bathroom fart fan by replacing the motor when the bearings wear out - much less that I was up on a ladder doing it. Its just fucking basic shit - I don't get it! That's why I bitch about effete (dare I say "pussified"?) Americans.

 

[mrblaine]

Even with those, decent side mirrors and the ability to be able to back up using them precludes the need for expensive technology. Americans have become effete idiots. I was taught how to back my vehicle using only the mirrors, which I still do very often to this day. The other trick is to open the driver's door and look back! Used that technique just last night backing my Jeep into my driveway, I learned that from my dad (dates from the days when cars didn't always have passenger side mirrors, but can be useful even when they're present.). Funny story: My mother tried it once, and almost fell out!

As for tykes and bikes, checking behind the vehicle before getting into it coupled with a modicum of SA prevents those kinds of tragedies. But Americans are too busy with their fucking smartphones to be bothered with anything resembling correct vehicle operating techniques. So our OverLords felt compelled to be perceived as "doing something about it".

Just to illustrate how stupid most drivers apparently are these days: I had a new engine put in the old MBZ a few years ago. It shouldn't have needed one that soon, but it did, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, there was a problem with the throttle linkage and it got stuck with the car accelerating with no control from the pedal. While completely NOT desirable behavior in a motor vehicle, I was able to control it and safely pull off using a combination of the gearshift's neutral feature, limited braking, and the ignition key! Complete common sense to me, but my mechanic (after I chewed his ass...) expressed surprise/admiration that I was able to control the car! The only thing surprising to me was that he was surprised!

Another one: Ran over a screwdriver and got a horrid bump, bump, bump from a rear tire. Pulled off, coincidentally right by a road crew. They felt compelled to tell me that they weren't allowed to assist me - that's fine, don't need help anyway. I didn't at first know if it was a flat or if I'd lost a rear halfshaft. The guy asked me "What are you going to do?" like it was something horrid. "Easy. If its a flat tire, I'm going to change it and be on my way. If I've lost a halfshaft, I'll call a tow truck." I guess most/many people are helpless in situations like this? Anyway, it was a flat so I changed it.

Hell, I even had someone express surprise that it was possible to fix a bathroom fart fan by replacing the motor when the bearings wear out - much less that I was up on a ladder doing it. Its just fucking basic shit - I don't get it! That's why I bitch about effete (dare I say "pussified"?) Americans.

When your only tool is a hammer, every solution is a nail. Or again, I'm fully aware of all of that but the logic is still highly flawed due to an insubstantial sampling rate.

 

[machoheadgames]

Yes!

Auto industry has a way of removing useful features, then using far more expensive "technology" to compensate. The door locks are but one example. They fucked up rearward visibility to the point of our benevolent OverLords decreeing backup cameras in all vehicles - which requires the ever detested screen in the dash. That was thanx to the "high beltline" styling that hit sometime post Y2K. Wing windows (and fenderwell vents) were removed, so they could sell more cars with A/C - even in climates that otherwise wouldn't really need it. Increasingly small rearview mirrors - especially on trucks - generated the "need" for "blind spot monitoring", when all that is really needed is a convex spot mirror (such as I added to my Jeep).

I get where you're coming from and don't necessarily disagree with your stance on most of the points about technology in vehicles (fuck blind spot monitoring and adaptive cruise), but I will say a backup camera is something that has only proven itself to be beneficial for me. Granted I don't mind a screen on the dash, although I don't want a giant one. But I'd much rather the convenience of a camera than not have it. Speaking from driving my truck here though, where depth perception makes it really hard to tell how close you are to something you could potentially back into. Camera makes it super easy to back up really close to things for parking or getting out of a tight spot. I have not found children running around really a reason for me to have one although it is good to make sure none of the neighborhood kids slipped behind my truck without me noticing I guess. But I really just appreciate the camera for it's ability to let me back up really close to things without hitting them so I can get as far into a parking spot as possible, or closer to the wall in my garage to make more walking room.

What I DON'T like are fucking sonar sensors. Car manufacturers can keep that shit. If I have a camera, I don't need sensors screaming at me when my tail end is going over a curb or is still 5 feet away from a wall.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

X2 to the hate for sonar saying there's someone closer to you or in your blind spot. I rented a Ford-something when I was back in Florida and that stupid fucking sonar beeper went off nearly continually even if someone was just next to me. Not to mention its fucking engine died every time I came to a stop .

 

[machoheadgames]

X2 to the hate for sonar saying there's someone closer to you or in your blind spot. I rented a Ford-something when I was back in Florida and that stupid fucking sonar beeper went off nearly continually even if someone was just next to me. Not to mention its fucking engine died every time I came to a stop .

Yeah the sensors are nothing but obnoxious. They beep so much that they make me paranoid I'm going to hit something when I'm not. I don't see how that is helpful, I could definitely consider it to be detrimental instead.

I share the hate for the "start stop technology" as well. That isn't technology, that is stupidity. Can you imagine when the starter dies and people replace it with one from the parts store? I know the OEMs are beefed up to last a considerable amount of starts, but no way the parts store junk is going through the same R&D. They already don't last more than a year or two on normal vehicles, no way they will hold up to 10x as many starts. Not only that but batteries are not built for start-stop and that is evidenced very clearly by how many bad batteries I see new Jeep, Ford, and GM owners needing. The "my starting battery is bad" posts are rampant.

 

[psrivats]

Wing windows are an added complexity that only appealed to a few once reliable AC became viable. They complicate clean styling, they add another piece of glass and the carrier is problematic at best and lest we forget, very easy to break into. They didn't delete them to sell more AC, they deleted them because they needed to go. At large scale production levels, the vagaries of small climate pockets fail to have much sway.

I have them in my 96 XJ and wish I didn't. They whistle at hwy speeds and it gets irritating. No amount of adjusting eliminates the noise. I will put a fixed glass replacement when I can pick a junkyard set for cheap.