Front Drivers Side Wheel Appears Out Of Alignment

[Breto31]

I just got back from a 230 mile round trip wheeling excursion, and while I was parked at a restaurant, I noticed that my drivers side front wheel appears to be pointing (ever so slightly) left while the passenger side front wheel is straight.

I have done multiple alignments over the last year trying to chase down a “darting” issue (which was mainly attributed to bad sway bar links).

It tracks fairly straight down the road, but I do have about 1” of play in the wheel left/right, but I’ve always felt that my front wheels feel “loose”.

 

[CharlesHS]

Check to see if the Tie Rod is bent....
Then check the TREs for play .
The 1" play can be a bad TRE at the pitman arm or the steering box is worn....

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Measure between the tire treads at the front and rear, the fronts should be 1/16" to 1/8" closer together than in the rear.

 

[Breto31]

I’ve basically got everything new underneath - track bar, TRE, drag link, ball joints (upper/lower), pitman arm, steering gear box. All new.

It feels like the road will move the wheels, and they want to stay there - they don’t come back to center. My RTC is about 75%, then I have to finish it, so I feel like I’m constantly steering.

 

[pagrey]

You are describing what toe out feels like and that's also what you are seeing. New stuff can be bad, new stuff can break. I'd check what @Jerry Bransford suggested first and go from there.

 

[Woodrow]

I’m sure there are lots of things it could be. But, you mentioned new ball joints. Your description sounds like “memory steer” which can be due to ball joints not moving freely. It’s something I experienced it on a 2008 Dodge 3500 4x4 pickup after replacing worn factory ball joints with beefed up, after market units supposed to be longer lasting than stock. It took me a long time to figure out because I had done several other things at the same time. It was frustrating as hell and I almost sold the truck. Finally, I re-replaced the ball joints with OEM style units. The truck immediately drove like new and still does years later.

 

[Breto31]

So I’ve been looking for more answers regarding my steering/alignment issue and steering wheel play. Ball joints all check out, no play there.

Seems lots of problems with steering wheel play generate from the steering shaft. I can grab my steering shaft and twist it about an inch either way with no movement in the pitman arm or anything. The steering wheel moves when I do this. I can also feel slight movement in the shaft up/down/left/right almost like it’s loose (seems like it is in the bushing on the shaft). I took the attached video - the movement is tough to tell.

Does this have any merit? Like I mentioned before, my return to center sucks, and it feels like my wheels move with the road because there’s nothing forcing it to return to center. My F150 steering wheel (on the same roads) barely moves, and always goes straight back to center. It feels like there’s so much more force in the steering.

 

[Breto31]

So I’ve been looking for more answers regarding my steering/alignment issue and steering wheel play. Ball joints all check out, no play there.

Seems lots of problems with steering wheel play generate from the steering shaft. I can grab my steering shaft and twist it about an inch either way with no movement in the pitman arm or anything. The steering wheel moves when I do this. I can also feel slight movement in the shaft up/down/left/right almost like it’s loose (seems like it is in the bushing on the shaft). I took the attached video - the movement is tough to tell.

Does this have any merit?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

So I’ve been looking for more answers regarding my steering/alignment issue and steering wheel play. Ball joints all check out, no play there.

Seems lots of problems with steering wheel play generate from the steering shaft. I can grab my steering shaft and twist it about an inch either way with no movement in the pitman arm or anything. The steering wheel moves when I do this. I can also feel slight movement in the shaft up/down/left/right almost like it’s loose (seems like it is in the bushing on the shaft). I took the attached video - the movement is tough to tell.

Does this have any merit?

Sounds like the steering box could be toast. If you decide to replace it, avoid store brand steering boxes and especially avoid Cardone rebuilt steering boxes.

 

[Breto31]

Sounds like the steering box could be toast. If you decide to replace it, avoid store brand steering boxes and especially avoid Cardone rebuilt steering boxes.

I have already replaced it (with a store brand box), about 6 months ago, hoping it would fix the issue - it made literally no difference. My steering felt the exact same after the new box as it did with the previous box. That made me think it wasn’t the box causing the issue.

Is there any way to tell if the box is bad without removing/replacing it? The mechanic who did the work said he wouldn’t be able to tell if the box was bad unless he tore it all apart.

 

[Matt131]

I’ve basically got everything new underneath - track bar, TRE, drag link, ball joints (upper/lower), pitman arm, steering gear box. All new.

It feels like the road will move the wheels, and they want to stay there - they don’t come back to center. My RTC is about 75%, then I have to finish it, so I feel like I’m constantly steering.

With all new parts up front, I would start with the easy stuff first before spending more money on parts. If your driver side front wheel really is pointed left while your passenger side wheel is straight, I would be looking at you driver side TRE. It may be adjusted too far out pushing your driver wheel to the left. Make certain both tires are pointed straight ahead. When your certain both wheels are straight you should adjust your toe in. Then check your caster angle for your RTC and wondering. With your lift and tires it should be around 6 degrees.

 

[Breto31]

With all new parts up front, I would start with the easy stuff first before spending more money on parts. If your driver side front wheel really is pointed left while your passenger side wheel is straight, I would be looking at you driver side TRE. It may be adjusted too far out pushing your driver wheel to the left. Make certain both tires are pointed straight ahead. When your certain both wheels are straight you should adjust your toe in. Then check your caster angle for your RTC and wondering. With your lift and tires it should be around 6 degrees.

It could be adjusted too far out. Is that something they would adjust in a normal alignment? I’ve had like 3-4 done. It always leaves aligned. Last time I had one done, they said it really wasn’t bad, to my surprise…. would you just undo the TRE, shorten it up, reattach it, and then adjust the toe-in? Pretty sure when I upgraded the tie-rod I just put the new one on adjusted to the existing TRE location.

Caster angle is 6°. I have adjustable front CA’s, and I set it myself attempting to improve RTC.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

It could be adjusted too far out. Is that something they would adjust in a normal alignment? I’ve had like 3-4 done. It always leaves aligned. Last time I had one done, they said it really wasn’t bad, to my surprise…. would you just undo the TRE, shorten it up, reattach it, and then adjust the toe-in? Pretty sure when I upgraded the tie-rod I just put the new one on adjusted to the existing TRE location.

Caster angle is 6°. I have adjustable front CA’s, and I set it myself attempting to improve RTC.

Unless something moved on you after the alignments , the toe is probably not your issue. You'd have to to be like 200+ yards from the rig to find a vantage point with perfect straight-on views of both front tires so there'll always be some level of illusion that they're toed out. It can't hurt to double check but given 4 alignments I'd be kinda surprised if the toe was wrong, unless your alignment shop is trash.

 

[Breto31]

I went ahead and called around asking for someone that can diagnose my steering issue. We don’t have a real 4x4 shop anywhere close to my town, so I’m going to have to settle for a wheel & tire shop. I don’t know that I trust the local 4x4 place - they just throw Rough Country stuff on everything, and mostly specialize in lifting full size trucks by 10” and putting 24” rims on them….. I’m just sick of throwing parts and money at it without knowing what the actual problem is. Nothing I’ve done has helped, so I need a “professional” to check it out.

I swear, though; pretty much everyone I’ve called says “when you put big tires and lifts on those Jeeps, that’s just the way they drive. They’re all over the road.”….. I know this isn’t true because when I bought it, it did not drive this way (and it had the same lift and larger tires), nor did it have play in the steering wheel - so something has changed since 2019. I just can’t figure out what.

THIS IS EVERYTHING I’VE DONE SINCE I’VE OWNED IT:

• Went from Mickey Thompson Baja claws in 17” rims to BFG AT’s on 15” rims.

• Swapped out the old Zin steering damper for a new Rancho one (the Zone was leaking and rusted).

• 4 New Rancho RS5000X shocks (the Zone ones on it were bad - one was totally busted, one was leaking).

• New front ball joints - upper and lower.

• Put on adjustable front CA’s from Core 4x4. Left the caster the same as the fixed CA’s at first (right at 4.8°), then increased it to 6° attempting to gain better return to center - no change).

• ZJ tie-rod upgrade. New drag link. New track bar. All new tie rod ends.

• New drivers side axle shaft, Ujoint, hub assembly (did this chasing down a wheel wobble - ended up being the steel wheels I had at the time - upgraded to alloy and solved the problem).

• Went back to factory pitman arm (removed the drop).

• Replaced sway bar links with new Zone links (same ones that were already on it, just new ones because the old ones were bad).

• Replaced the factory steering gear box with a refurb steering gear box from Orielly (made no change at all to my steering play).

 

[Breto31]

I just took it to the place that did the ball joints to have the verify that they were good still (all good).

The mechanic drove it and said that it feels like a track bar issue. He tried to grease the track bar, and said that the grease shot up through the top of the hole (frame side - pic attached) and it shouldn’t do that. He said he thinks the track bar is either wrong, bad, or the hole is wallowed out allowing the track bar to move. It feels tight - I had another mechanic put it on a lift and ensure it was tight. I put on the Moog DS1235 track bar this past year. Bought from Amazon. According Amazon, this is the correct piece.

He did confirm that I’m not crazy. He said that the steering is loose for whatever reason. He said it “feels exactly like my Dodge did, and I changed the track bar and it fixed the issue”.

I don’t know…. any recommendations on a different track bar to use besides the Moog one?

 

[jjvw]

I just took it to the place that did the ball joints to have the verify that they were good still (all good).

The mechanic drove it and said that it feels like a track bar issue. He tried to grease the track bar, and said that the grease shot up through the top of the hole (frame side - pic attached) and it shouldn’t do that. He said he thinks the track bar is either wrong, bad, or the hole is wallowed out allowing the track bar to move. It feels tight - I had another mechanic put it on a lift and ensure it was tight. I put on the Moog DS1235 track bar this past year. Bought from Amazon. According Amazon, this is the correct piece.

He did confirm that I’m not crazy. He said that the steering is loose for whatever reason. He said it “feels exactly like my Dodge did, and I changed the track bar and it fixed the issue”.

I don’t know…. any recommendations on a different track bar to use besides the Moog one?

View attachment 306370

Do a steer test with the engine running. Grab a hold of the track bar end and the mount together with one hand and feel for movement while someone does a bunch of quick 10-2 steering wheel movements.

 

[Breto31]

Do a steer test with the engine running. Grab a hold of the track bar end and the mount together with one hand and feel for movement while someone does a bunch of quick 10-2 steering wheel movements.

Am I just feeling for any sloppy movements wishing the bolt/nut?

 

[jjvw]

Am I just feeling for any sloppy movements wishing the bolt/nut?

There should not be any movement anywhere.

 

[OldBuzzard]

Something is BAD wrong with that track bar attachment. The castle nut is WAY below the cotter pin, and grease is coming up around the bolt, and the rubber boot is squashed almost flat. I suspect that's a stock type track bar with a tapered bolt, but a PO may have drilled out the tapered hole for a different track bar. You need to pull that upper track bar joint and inspect the hole in the frame mount. Is it tapered or straight through?

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Something is BAD wrong with that track bar attachment. The castle nut is WAY below the cotter pin, and grease is coming up around the bolt, and the rubber boot is squashed almost flat. I suspect that's a stock type track bar with a tapered bolt, but a PO may have drilled out the tapered hole for a different track bar. You need to pull that upper track bar joint and inspect the hole in the frame mount. Is it tapered or straight through?

I agree. and I would never in a million years take my rig back to this mechanic:

another mechanic put it on a lift and ensure it was tight.