Cast Iron Sewer Pipes

[Zorba]

I have 60 year old cast iron sewer pipes that are starting to be a problem. Under slab, of course. I'm obviously going to have to have them cameraed to see what's going on.

Does anyone here have any experiences with this? There are a couple of different ways to replace them, and a couple or three ways to re-line them, but all I can get from an internet search is a bunch of fucking FUD. The re-pipers say that relining will fail and leave a worse mess than you had to start with, the re-liners will say that they can fix all the world's problems for way less. I suspect the truth is somewhere inbetween - everybody has something to sell, and I want info from somebody who doesn't have a dog in the fight.

An initial look at pricing suggests that full on replacement isn't that much more than a reline would be anyway. *SHRUG*

 

[JustDandee]

I can only offer up- I spent 12k to have a pipe replaced. 1940.s fiber/clay pipe I think. That was working under the patio slab and then a detached garage slab and across the neighbors yard. it was rental so I was not there to get the blow by blow but it was a good distance and sharing a budgetary figure.

adding I had it chased twice. It it was clasping in so it was not a surprise… you may get some temporary relief chasing through.

 

[Zorba]

you may get some temporary relief chasing through.

I might - have to scope it first. Repair would actually only have to last 25 years.

 

[pc1p]

Is it truly "under" the slab or "through the slab"? My family friend is a plumber and specialized in this type of work (he works mainly in metro NYC where this is a big business), but also in upstate NY and PA. My dad worked with him for ~15 years and he taught my dad a lot of what he knows about plumbing, and by extension, almost everything I know...

From his experience, the lining process works well for most people. The problem with that is "most". Scoping out the pipes will give you a better idea if you are a candidate. According to A (I'll just use his initial), pipes that are corroded and leaking at the seams or at low points are good candidates, regardless if through slab or under slab.

Pipes that have shifted and cracked, either due to settling of the slab or surrounding area, are not as good and in some cases, will indeed cause you a mess. Pipes with sever root-growth will also be a potential mess and failure point (A says "some" small root growth isn't a problem as they're gonna jet the pipe really well anyways and that will get rid of any minor root issues).

If it were my money, since costs are similar, I'd lean more towards replacement. If in 25 years you're looking to sell, I would personally consider it a selling points, especially in an older neighborhood with known cast piping that has/is likely failing.

FWIW, I had cast/copper sewer pipes that were failing on me. Thankfully, I have a basement to alleviate much of the headache. Still, having to excavate and wet-saw a good part of the footing by the porch was no easy task.

 

[BlueC]

An initial look at pricing suggests that full on replacement isn't that much more than a reline would be anyway. *SHRUG*

If re-lining is nearly the same prices as full replacement, how do they sell the service? Re-lining seems like a more temporary/band-aid type of fix to me. Not that it is bad, just that it should be a fraction of the cost to replace. Are you talking about a section replacement or full waste system replacement?

If it were my money, since costs are similar, I'd lean more towards replacement. If in 25 years you're looking to sell, I would personally consider it a selling points, especially in an older neighborhood with known cast piping that has/is likely failing.

I agree with that ^ Of course being under slab (I assume slab foundation house) that means more work and new floors that factor in.

 

[Zorba]

Thanx guys - its data like this that helps. Its definitely "under" slab, the pipe from the toilet goes down a good 18 inches (by eyeball) before it turns. I don't yet know for sure about relative costs, a reline obviously means far less mess, although they can tunnel under without having to rip up floors using a technique called "Pipe Bursting" to hydraulically break apart the old pipes.

I don't care about resale value, the 25 year figure exceeds my life expectation.

 

[pc1p]

If re-lining is nearly the same prices as full replacement, how do they sell the service? Re-lining seems like a more temporary/band-aid type of fix to me. Not that it is bad, just that it should be a fraction of the cost to replace. Are you talking about a section replacement or full waste system replacement?

Down time + the marginal savings (10-20% or so) are the selling points. My family friend says he can do a 60' 4" main reline in an afternoon (assuming he's already scoped and jetted it clean).

 

[TJ Jim]

Scoping is a good plan. We replaced the pipes where I worked. Thirty years of caustic chemicals and lots of things that were not designed to go down the drains showed up in the scoping plus some settlement and shifting causing cracks made the bandaid liner a bad choice. Production lines don’t like being down for long periods seeing how minutes mean money.
The engineers decided the liner was a no go.

 

[Zorba]

In my research, cast iron was apparently pretty common into the 90s. I grew up in mobile homes which had ABS sewers, so cast iron wasn't really in my world, but I think in California, cast iron was pretty much out by the mid 60s even in stick built homes. *shrug*

 

[Zorba]

Down time + the marginal savings (10-20% or so) are the selling points. My family friend says he can do a 60' 4" main reline in an afternoon (assuming he's already scoped and jetted it clean).

What type of re-line does he do?

 

[BlueC]

In my research, cast iron was apparently pretty common into the 90s.

It's common around here up into the '80s, at which time it lost out due to cost. My house from the '60s has a cast iron waste system. It's actually a really good waste pipe due to durability and ability to insulate/quiet the system. A cast system is virtually silent. The only newer houses that I have seen use cast iron pipes around here have been high dollar customs, and I think that's mostly because of their silent operation. Having said that, I wound not even consider using cast iron to repair/replace your pipes.

 

[Zorba]

It's common around here up into the '80s, at which time it lost out due to cost. My house from the '60s has a cast iron waste system. It's actually a really good waste pipe due to durability and ability to insulate/quiet the system. A cast system is virtually silent. The only newer houses that I have seen use cast iron pipes around here have been high dollar customs, and I think that's mostly because of their silent operation. Having said that, I wound not even consider using cast iron to repair/replace your pipes.

Cast iron has a good reputation in California for being very long lived. It has the opposite rep here in Florida. There have been 2 houses in my neighborhood sewer replumbed in the last 6 months. But I'd use ABS every time anyway, although PVC seems to be preferred here, I think it has to do with the coefficient of expansion.

 

[TJ Jim]

Cast iron has a good reputation in California for being very long lived. It has the opposite rep here in Florida. There have been 2 houses in my neighborhood sewer replumbed in the last 6 months. But I'd use ABS every time anyway, although PVC seems to be preferred here, I think it has to do with the coefficient of expansion.

Salt. Florida?

 

[Zorba]

Salt. Florida?

Maybe. Dunno! I'll ask the plumbers.

 

[Gilaguy23]

Being that old make sure its not Orangeburg pipe which was used plenty in the war times to save metal use. What is the problem? bellies, roots or just rotted causing hang ups or dookies ? Roots can be fixed fairly good by a root cutter and applications of RootX. This may not be a forever fix but it will help. We used this in a municipal application in various places with consistent results. In the municipal world pipe bursting, slip lining worked well but as you note not cheap. Personally id opt for replacement with PVC. But do camera it and see whats inside. A good camera operator will be able to pinpoint by footage exactly where the issue is so total replacement may not be necessary.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Yikes. I had a house built in 67 that by the time I bought it in 08, the cast sewer pipes had already been 90% replaced with PVC. Unfortunately they didn't correctly join the fittings so I ended up spending a few hours in the crawlspace with a bottle of purple primer and cement redoing every joint all the way across the house. I also replaced most of what was left of the cast because the way they pitched the pvc created a low spot that completely filled in a section of the cast. By the time I was done the only iron left was the short bit running through the foundation wall to just past the clean out, after which had also been PVC'd all the way to the main.

 

[pc1p]

What type of re-line does he do?

I've never seen it in person, but from what he's told me, it's like a inside-out sausage casing that has some polymer/rubber/epoxy component to it. I can call him and get any details/considerations that you need.

 

[NskLJ]

Yikes. I had a house built in 67 that by the time I bought it in 08, the cast sewer pipes had already been 90% replaced with PVC. Unfortunately they didn't correctly join the fittings so I ended up spending a few hours in the crawlspace with a bottle of purple primer and cement redoing every joint all the way across the house. I also replaced most of what was left of the cast because the way they pitched the pvc created a low spot that completely filled in a section of the cast. By the time I was done the only iron left was the short bit running through the foundation wall to just past the clean out, after which had also been PVC'd all the way to the main.

Wow! My house was build in ‘36 and still has the original cast plumbing. I did get lucky as the homes in my neighborhood were one off or custom homes at that time and the builder used cast all the way to the sewer vs clay.

 

[Zorba]

Wow! My house was build in ‘36 and still has the original cast plumbing. I did get lucky as the homes in my neighborhood were one off or custom homes at that time and the builder used cast all the way to the sewer vs clay.

My part of california is noted for 1890s Victorians, many of which still have the original cast iron. I *LOVE* a Victorian house!

 

[NskLJ]

My part of california is noted for 1890s Victorians, many of which still have the original cast iron. I *LOVE* a Victorian house!

I would like to restore a Victorian, love old home ours are mostly California bungalow or craftsman in our area.