What do I need to know about ball joints?

lovemachine

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I think I’m going to have to replace my ball joints. I’ve been hearing a clunking sound when I turn. It’s the only thing I can think of.

What brand do I need? I’m assuming Spicer?

Tools, I think my brother has everything.

I read something about needing an alignment after ball joint replacement. Is this true?
 
I think I’m going to have to replace my ball joints. I’ve been hearing a clunking sound when I turn. It’s the only thing I can think of.

Could be lots of things, (control arm bushings, wheel bearings, steering linkage, shocks, sway bar bushings or endlinks, just to start with) best to check for play before spending the money

What brand do I need? I’m assuming Spicer?

Don't know anyone personally who's ever bought Spicer ones.
Moog makes some decent ones with lifetime warranty (you will need it)
Dyatrac makes some you can rebuild in the vehicle (they arn't cheap but last forever)
There are a few other high end ones like the Dyatrac ones and you can pick among em if you have the money

Tools, I think my brother has everything.

I read something about needing an alignment after ball joint replacement. Is this true?

Yes and no. If you put in an adjustable ball joint to compensate for a bent axle then yes. If you put in non adjustable ones then no you won't need one.



There must have been a time
when we could have said no.
 
I replaced mine with Spicer about 35k miles ago. Still good. Along with the BJ press and the Dana 30/Dana 44 adapters, watch lots of YouTube videos showing the process. Spray the ball joints and everything else with a good penetrating oil for a few days before the job. Tapping the ears on the knuckles with a heavy mallet while you press them in/out makes things move far more smoothly with less effort.

This isn't difficult to do, but it can be time consuming and daunting is your haven't fully disassembled the entire front axle before.

Consider replacing the unit bearings. If you are brave, then replace the inner axle seals. Both are nearly the same job as job as the ball joints. There are also the axle shaft u joints. At least take a good look at them.

2003 Rubicon
 
Could be lots of things, (control arm bushings, wheel bearings, steering linkage, shocks, sway bar bushings or endlinks, just to start with) best to check for play before spending the money



Don't know anyone personally who's ever bought Spicer ones.
Moog makes some decent ones with lifetime warranty (you will need it)
Dyatrac makes some you can rebuild in the vehicle (they arn't cheap but last forever)
There are a few other high end ones like the Dyatrac ones and you can pick among em if you have the money



Yes and no. If you put in an adjustable ball joint to compensate for a bent axle then yes. If you put in non adjustable ones then no you won't need one.



There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

I know it’s not the control arms. I have JJ’s from Savvy/Currie :)
 
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Could be lots of things, (control arm bushings, wheel bearings, steering linkage, shocks, sway bar bushings or endlinks, just to start with) best to check for play before spending the money



Don't know anyone personally who's ever bought Spicer ones.
Moog makes some decent ones with lifetime warranty (you will need it)
Dyatrac makes some you can rebuild in the vehicle (they arn't cheap but last forever)
There are a few other high end ones like the Dyatrac ones and you can pick among em if you have the money

Just finished a rebuild kit on a set of upper Dynatracs. They needed a rebuild in about the same number of miles as the cheaper ball joints. The design is flawed, very flawed and there is no way to slow down how often they need rebuilding.

We won't install or use Moog, Mevotech, (maybe their new HP versions which we haven't tried yet), Alloy USA, or Synergy. None of those pay labor costs to swap them out so it's unfair to our clients to install something and either replace them for free or make them pay when they wear out in 5000 miles.



Yes and no. If you put in an adjustable ball joint to compensate for a bent axle then yes. If you put in non adjustable ones then no you won't need one.

The alignment afterwards would only tell you that you did what the alignment beforehand told you was needed.
 
Just finished a rebuild kit on a set of upper Dynatracs. They needed a rebuild in about the same number of miles as the cheaper ball joints. The design is flawed, very flawed and there is no way to slow down how often they need rebuilding.

We won't install or use Moog, Mevotech, (maybe their new HP versions which we haven't tried yet), Alloy USA, or Synergy. None of those pay labor costs to swap them out so it's unfair to our clients to install something and either replace them for free or make them pay when they wear out in 5000 miles.





The alignment afterwards would only tell you that you did what the alignment beforehand told you was needed.
So far I've been happy with my jk dynatrac ones but what would you recommend?

I agree that it kind of sucks that none of the life time warranty ones like moog pay labor... But if they did they'd need to change 6 grand for ball joints to make a profit so I understand, really wish they did last longer but if you get the good ones they are at least as good as oem and much cheaper.

And when installing the adjustable ones I put em as close as possible to where the previous ones were but there's really no way to dial in that angle without an alignment rack. No easy way any how.


There must have been a time
when we could have said no.
 
So I have an 05 LJ, it came with Spicer ball joints from the factory and they have lasted for 13 years and 112,000 miles, so I think I will stick with Spicer.........
 
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As soon as we get some warm weather for a more than an hour I will be replacing mine with Spicer...... as well as the bearing unit and the axle u-joints
 
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So far I've been happy with my jk dynatrac ones but what would you recommend?
Not running 37's on JK stock axles would be a good start.

I agree that it kind of sucks that none of the life time warranty ones like moog pay labor... But if they did they'd need to change 6 grand for ball joints to make a profit so I understand, really wish they did last longer but if you get the good ones they are at least as good as oem and much cheaper.
Okay, so how do I look at a set of Moogs and tell the good ones from the bad ones? They warrantied them, no one warrantied my install so I removed and installed them once for free, and then I removed them for free and installed a set of Spicer. End of the day, I didn't get paid twice for using Moog.

And when installing the adjustable ones I put em as close as possible to where the previous ones were but there's really no way to dial in that angle without an alignment rack. No easy way any how.

I would only use adjustables to add caster. Pin goes straight back, no way to screw it up. I wouldn't attempt to solve a bent axle problem with ball joints.
 
Jerry, how do I know what u joints my rear drive shaft takes? 2005 LJ Rubicon
 
Jerry, how do I know what u joints my rear drive shaft takes? 2005 LJ Rubicon
This is the best info I have... I had previously posted a chart but I'm not 100% confident it was 100% correct everywhere so I removed it.

2005-2006 Rubicon Models
Front DS @ Pinion: 5-793x
Front DS @ CV/T-Case: 5-790x
Rubicon w/ Rear DS #410AD @ T-Case: 5-795x
Rubicon w/ Rear DS #410AD @ Pinion: 5-793x
LJ Rubicon w/ Rear DS #585AA @ T-Case & Pinion: 5-1310x
Axle U-Joint: 5-760x
 
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Not running 37's on JK stock axles would be a good start.

That's helpful advice, I'll keep it in mind and tell everyone around here to that they should toss out their tires and go smaller. I'm sure the prorock 44 in the front of my LJ was only released for people running 33s. Thanks for presenting an alternative to stock joints.

Okay, so how do I look at a set of Moogs and tell the good ones from the bad ones? They warrantied them, no one warrantied my install so I removed and installed them once for free, and then I removed them for free and installed a set of Spicer. End of the day, I didn't get paid twice for using Moog.

And I comend you for taking care of your customer, a lot of shops wouldn't.
You identify the better ones by part number when ordering. Same way you identify any grades of auto parts by the same manufacturer.

I would only use adjustables to add caster. Pin goes straight back, no way to screw it up. I wouldn't attempt to solve a bent axle problem with ball joints.

It's sure a hell of a lot cheaper to run adjustable joints in the right spot for a factory alignment than it is to retube. On a jeep that's going to get beaten off road steps should be taken before its needed I agree. However on something like my ram that's had a heavy Cummins sitting on that axle for the past 450k it needs just a bit of help. Installing the replacement ball joints on an alignment rack solves the problem.



There must have been a time
when we could have said no.
 
That's helpful advice, I'll keep it in mind and tell everyone around here to that they should toss out their tires and go smaller. I'm sure the prorock 44 in the front of my LJ was only released for people running 33s. Thanks for presenting an alternative to stock joints.



And I comend you for taking care of your customer, a lot of shops wouldn't.
You identify the better ones by part number when ordering. Same way you identify any grades of auto parts by the same manufacturer.



It's sure a hell of a lot cheaper to run adjustable joints in the right spot for a factory alignment than it is to retube. On a jeep that's going to get beaten off road steps should be taken before its needed I agree. However on something like my ram that's had a heavy Cummins sitting on that axle for the past 450k it needs just a bit of help. Installing the replacement ball joints on an alignment rack solves the problem.



There must have been a time
when we could have said no.
You may not have chosen to be so snide to Blaine if you knew his background and what he does for a living. And for your first response, there's a big difference between running 37's and 33's or 35's. If my f/r Dana 44's with chromoly alloy shafts and CTM u-joints were up to 37's I'd be running them instead of the 35's I have wisely limited them to.
 
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That's helpful advice, I'll keep it in mind and tell everyone around here to that they should toss out their tires and go smaller. I'm sure the prorock 44 in the front of my LJ was only released for people running 33s. Thanks for presenting an alternative to stock joints.

There is nothing about a ProRock 44 that allows it to handle 37's any better than any other 44 unless it has 1 ton outers.



And I comend you for taking care of your customer, a lot of shops wouldn't.
You identify the better ones by part number when ordering. Same way you identify any grades of auto parts by the same manufacturer.

Could you be any more cryptic?



It's sure a hell of a lot cheaper to run adjustable joints in the right spot for a factory alignment than it is to retube. On a jeep that's going to get beaten off road steps should be taken before its needed I agree. However on something like my ram that's had a heavy Cummins sitting on that axle for the past 450k it needs just a bit of help. Installing the replacement ball joints on an alignment rack solves the problem.

I thought we were discussing Jeep Ball Joints?
 
You may not have chosen to be so snide to Blaine if you knew his background and what he does for a living. And for your first response, there's a big difference between running 37's and 33's or 35's. If my f/r Dana 44's with chromoly alloy shafts and CTM u-joints were up to 37's I'd be running them instead of the 35's I have wisely limited them to.
I actually have a fair idea of his background and what he does for a living. My first response was respectful and I really did want his input on a viable alternative to an upgraded ball joints if the dynatracs have design issues. (a problem I personally have yet to experience but that's just one case of good luck) his reply was quite sarcastic. The first thing he did was attack my tire size choice. I'm not the one in this thread who needs ball joints. I was simply trying to learn from his experience.

The second thing he did was play dumb about knowing there's different grades of auto parts. I'm sorry but ether we all give him too much credit or again he's being sarcastic for no reason. I don't have time for ether option frankly.

The third thing he did was to say that I went about fixing my tow rig wrong. That's fine its his opinion but I don't have the money to retube an axle when a couple of ball joints will fix it to perfect factory specs. I also can't find a junk yard axle around here for that truck or I'd go get that but so far it's not an option for me.

I defer to the guys knowledge but when I ask a legitimate question and get sarcasm and basically no answer how would you respond? Perhaps he should know something about my background, setup, and knowledge base before giving me attitude?

And after all that I still don't have any more information than I started with. He thinks Spicer is better than moog, that's great, he hasn't yet said if they pay labor on warranty work. And it's been my experience that in this climate moog and factory last about the same amount of time.

As to tire size: where you live and wheel has a big effect on what tires your axle will support. I was recently in Hawaii and the guys I was wheeling with there told me that no one runs over a 4.88 even in a jk axle as they tend to have high failure rates even on 35s. Here its normal to run 5.38s with no gear issues at all. So while 37s on a 44 may not be an option in your area its common here on jk axles and on a tj 44 while it's pushing the limits its quite functional depending on how you drive. The only axle issue I have with my current setup is a leaking arb and regular inner seal failure. So I'd say in my case 37s are fine.

Again though, what did my tire size have to do with the question of what would he recommend instead of the dynatrac joints? I was more than willing to take in what info he was willing to offer. What I'm not willing to do is roll over when he gets his panties in a bunch and feels the need to try and beat on someone. I had more than enough bullies try that in high school, I didn't accept it then and nothing has changed now.


There must have been a time
when we could have said no.
 
There is nothing about a ProRock 44 that allows it to handle 37's any better than any other 44 unless it has 1 ton outers.

That u suspect greatly depends on where you live. Other than frequent unit bearing failures (and it may be something in my setup doing it as I know others who have 37s and don't have that issue, it also happened on 35s) I gave no issues. The inner c is much larger, the outter knuckles arn't a regular failure point. The ball joints are a bit under sized to be sure, that's why I asked if you knew something better than stock that was also better than a pro steer joint.




Could you be any more cryptic?
[/QUOTE

Yes far more.
I'll go look up some part numbers for you later when I have more time.

I thought we were discussing Jeep Ball Joints?

I could see where you would assume that. My only personal experience with adjustable joints is on the tow rig. That said if someone has a bent axle and can't afford to have it tetubed adjustable ball joints may get them through for a while and in that situation should be setup on the alignment rack. We are both looking at different possibile uses of them is all.


There must have been a time
when we could have said no.