Fender smack down! Tube fenders compared on a real Jeep

[Chris]

To illustrate why the flares are less of a concern than many might want to believe, here is mine at two very different stages in it's life...

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In both images, the front bump stops are set to keep the tires from grabbing sheet metal at full flex. This is the first point of interference on my setup. At full bump both sides, the tires are far away from the outer fender lips. My tires do rub the flares for brief moments in very specific situations. But not in a way that would cause damage. Basically, the flares are a non-issue when you pay attention to the bump stop extensions.

Look back at the first post and you have an idea of where my smaller tires are.

Of course this also assumes that someone has wheels and tires that fit within the stock fender flares, right? I mean what if you've got the "skateboard" look and your wheels and tires stick out much further than the fender flares. Then I suppose they become a real point of interference.

 

[jjvw]

Of course this also assumes that someone has wheels and tires that fit within the stock fender flares, right? I mean what if you've got the "skateboard" look and your wheels and tires stick out much further than the fender flares. Then I suppose they become a real point of interference.

We need guys with the stretched tire skateboard look to add their insight to these types of discussions.

FWiW, the backspacing in the second pic is 3.5". The tires are 10.5" wide. That isn't much different than others with 12.5" wide tires and less backspace.

 

[toximus]

We need guys with the stretched tire skateboard look to add their insight to these types of discussions.

Maybe not as wide as some, but isn't that interferiance exactly what I posted?

 

[jjvw]

Maybe not as wide as some, but isn't that interferiance exactly what I posted?

It is. The difference is that you are paying close attention to the movements and clearances. I am making a potentially unfair assumption that the skateboard bro-dozer guy isn't looking at these things.

 

[Chris]

We need guys with the stretched tire skateboard look to add their insight to these types of discussions.

FWiW, the backspacing in the second pic is 3.5". The tires are 10.5" wide. That isn't much different than others with 12.5" wide tires and less backspace.

I've got a total of 4" backspacing with 12.5" wide tires. They stick out about 1.5" past the fender flares at ride height. However, as the suspension begins to compress, they start to tuck inside the fender flare. I suspect if the backspacing was any less (or the tires were any wider) this wouldn't be the case though.

 

[jjvw]

I've got a total of 4" backspacing with 12.5" wide tires. They stick out about 1.5" past the fender flares at ride height. However, as the suspension begins to compress, they start to tuck inside the fender flare. I suspect if the backspacing was any less (or the tires were any wider) this wouldn't be the case though.

That points to yet another reason to cycle the suspension to see what is really going on.

 

[jjvw]

There is no unrealistic expectation involved if a company tells you directly that you will have no problem clearing a specific tire size, none whatsoever. Had you paid that bill, you'd feel the same way. He bought them based on what he was told, I showed him how much they limited uptravel after he had installed them. He then paid me to carefully remove them so they could be sold for as much as possible, he bought Genright High Lines and then paid me to install them. That is neither cheap or unrealistic.

This brings up an interesting conundrum. How does a business handle the marketing of it's product? There shouldn't be anything wrong with enthusiastic promotion. But we probably all agree that it should be honest and accurate. What about when a company focuses on certain specific benefits and improvements, while ignoring or even obscuring areas that don't deliver. Is it ethically better to make more conservative and accurate claims and then trust the audience to understand the greater nuances? This feels like a difficult balancing act on many levels.

 

[toximus]

This brings up an interesting conundrum. How does a business handle the marketing of it's product? There shouldn't be anything wrong with enthusiastic promotion. But we probably all agree that it should be honest and accurate. What about when a company focuses on certain specific benefits and improvements, while ignoring or even obscuring areas that don't deliver. Is it ethically better to make more conservative and accurate claims and then trust the audience to understand the greater nuances? This feels like a difficult balancing act on many levels.

I think there needs to be a balance of understanding who your average buyer is and the assumed skills of that buyer. For example, I doubt many new/low skill level guys are buying mid-arms, you can also safely assume some knowledge about that buyer. It's more difficult to assume the knowledge of somebody who buys 35s, even more so if 35s are simply supposed to be "bolt on" over a weekend.

I have no inherent problem with MetalCloak fenders. I had originally bought them when my OEM fender got hit by a car in the oncoming lane to save some money vs OEM. As a replacement fender it is an entirely different product to review with its own problems.

 

[billiebob]

The unrealistic part is trusting what we all know is marketing spin. Which is everywhere. The realistic part is buyer beware. Lord knows there is a wealth of information to correct the marketing spin..... like this thread.

I call it marketing spin because it is rarely out right lying, taken in context, the salesman sell 20 kits to mall crawler who is ecstatic with the result for every one which goes to a true wheeler who will, and does, push everything past the parameters of the marketing, design teams intentions. Both of the systems shown by the PO have obvious compromizes made for style, manufacturing, cost.

Absolutely the best way to get fender clearance is to do it at home.

 

[billiebob]

I'd want them wider for tire coverage.

Metal Cloak makes them 1.5", 4", 6" & 8" wide.

https://metalcloak.com/tj-lj-wrangler/tj-lj-wrangler-body-armor.html

 

[toximus]

I guess I fail to see how "Gain Highline Kit clearance without Hacking or Replacing your Hood." is marketing spin. Unless they found another company that sells highlines that aren't actually highlines to compare to.

It's like saying that your dentist has the best suscess rate compared to other dentists but you're comparing to a desist in some bad part of China. And your dentist is just pulling all teeth out to claim none of their patients have cavities...

 

[sourbluff]

I know this is older thread but also appears to be the best look at fender options I can fine so TY! Hope you don’t mind a couple questions.

Would having 1.25” body lift in addition to the 4” spring lift change results in meaningful way?

There are a lot of options similar to MC that don’t require cutting hood. Trying to dig through claims and counter that with bits grabbed from various discussions is a bit daunting. I haven’t seen any other with such specific “37s with 3” lift” claims like MC but all do claim to be best and offer more clearance than competition. As example PS includes battery tray which I’ve seen noted as limiting factor but also allows use of stock inner fender so I can’t grasp how that would improve rear wheel well opening. TnT seems like it might come closest as claims to move rear wheel well opening back 2”, provides custom inner fender and directly states that full length rocker guards may need to be trimmed. I get that none of these will provide full benefit of true highline. But in your opinion are any more likely to provide better result?

 

[jjvw]

A body lift raises the entire body, where a highline raises the hood line and hopefully also moves the rear fender wall backwards. Both are in the same family of creating body clearance.

 

[scottgraham]

@billiebob
In those pics you posted...
It doesn't appear the fender is welded to the hood, and also you can see the "highline" cut out of the hood.
Very cool build.

 

[toximus]

Would having 1.25” body lift in addition to the 4” spring lift change results in meaningful way?

Yes. I don't think I noted it, but I actually am running a 1.25" body lift in these tests.

But in your opinion are any more likely to provide better result?

Even if the tires hitting the rear fender wall due to scrub wasn't an issue, at the end of the day the hood is in the way of the tire. The only way to change that is to highline the fenders or go with a different style hood such as Campbell.

 

[Irun]

As someone who has run MC overline fenders for years, running 37" tires would be pure BS, without significant bumpstop. I run 35" tires with a 3.5" lift and approximately 1" of bumpstop up front and 3" in the rear. I've flexed this combination numerous times and consistently have contact on the 6" flare center edge at full stuff. There is zero contact on any other point up front, other than what's seen here. With a 37" tire I'd have to bumpstop much more, reducing the effective use. Are they a decent product, yes. Are there better options, yes.

 

[Captain Phoenix]

As example PS includes battery tray which I’ve seen noted as limiting factor but also allows use of stock inner fender so I can’t grasp how that would improve rear wheel well opening.

The battery tray appears to be the limiting factor. Once you replace the battery tray the inner fender is free to move rearward and increase the wheel opening. PS claims 4 inches extra room rearward vs stock.

 

[someguysjeep]

The battery tray appears to be the limiting factor. Once you replace the battery tray the inner fender is free to move rearward and increase the wheel opening. PS claims 4 inches extra room rearward vs stock.

the inner fender support is the issue, the battery tray can be raised. until that structure is changed the rear fender wall cannot move.

stock fender is about 5" at the bottom.
my HL is 3.25" at the bottom. that's a +1.75" over stock.

the PS is pretty narrow at the bottom but not sure i see a +4" there.

 

[06TJ35's]

Poison spyder is vague on how much more clearance their HL fenders give compared to stock. Claims to be 3” higher than their regular defenders. Their regular defenders don’t say how much higher compared to stock. So that’s no help. 4” further back compared to stock. Looks like PS might have the same clearance to GR’s HL 3” up&back? I also find it funny PS says you can run 37” with no suspension lift and 40” with litttle suspension lift.

”Massive Tire Clearance
Standard DeFender™ provide much better tire clearance than stock or some competitors' tube fenders, but DeFender™ XC's provide eXtreme Clearance!. Like with the standard DeFenders™, the back of the wheel opening is approximately 2½" further back compared to typical tube fenders, and about 4" further back than the stock Jeep flares. But the wheel opening on the XC's is 3" higher than standard DeFenders, providing Massive Tire Clearance with minimal lift! While there are specific considerations to address with any particular Jeep, in most cases you should be able to run 37" tires with no suspension lift, and 40's with just couple inches of lift! See the FAQ section below for a more detailed discussion of tire clearance”
”https://shop.poisonspyder.com/TJ-DeFender-XC-Negative-Flares-Steel-p/14-02-090.htm

https://genright.com/products/tj-lj-0-flare-front-flat-hi-fenders-aluminum.htmlGenright 0” Flare HL claim their fenders opens up 3” up and back.

“ 0” Flare, FLAT Fender look.
Super lightweight Aluminum Alloy version, only 6lbs!
Hi-Fender model opens the wheel opening 3" up and 3" back.
Innovative removable side panel (easy access to engine compartment)
Larger wheel opening to better clear bigger tires”

Which would be a better choice? The Same?

 

[sourbluff]

I read through this thread and several builds trying to understand what was marketing hype (BS?) and what was more real world expectation. My take: Yes you might fit 37s with no lift (I mean we know it can be done with 38s and no hi-line ) but wouldn’t be functional in way most of us want to use our Jeeps. To really see gains you need to go up and back meaning highline. It will be lot of work fitting everything back under the hood.

With above in mind here are my thoughts after looking at 4 potential options, sorry if some of this is repetitive but do like getting input before spend what will be significant $ after match it with rear armor, sliders etc.

PS and TnT are basically blowing smoke up consumers ass with tire size claims.

GenRight makes no specific tire size claims and is pretty blunt with how much work is involved. They also come as most expensive as things like inner fender, relocation brackets, turn signal provisions, etc. are all purchased separately. They are listed at 6 lbs/fender for 0 flare which is awesome but doesn’t include inner fender etc.

Nemesis tire size claims seem reasonable but is harder to find real world examples. An fully complete kit for $999 is appealing (flare is $350). Shipped weight is 50 lbs. They probably undersell amount of work associated with install and avoid fact that will require cutting by suggesting a hood that is no longer available.

PS: Steel or Aluminum. ”2½" further back compared to typical tube fenders, and about 4" further back than the stock Jeep flares. But the wheel opening on the XC's is 3" higher than standard DeFenders, providing Massive Tire Clearance with minimal lift! While there are specific considerations to address with any particular Jeep, in most cases you should be able to run 37" tires with no suspension lift, and 40's with just couple inches of lift!”

TnT: Steel. ”Do 40 inch MT/Rs with only 4 inch of lift interest you? TNT Full Replacement HyLine tube fenders added to your 97-06 Jeep Wrangler TJ/LJ will significantly improve your Jeep's abilities on and off road. By enlarging the wheel opening to the extent that we have, you have the potential to run as large as a 37 inch tire on a stock suspension”

GenRight: Steel or Aluminum. steel-“constructed to sit 3-3/4" higher that stock to allow you to run bigger tires with minimal lift” aluminum- “Hi-Fender model opens the wheel opening 3" up and 3" back“ “Installing Hi-Fenders is a lot of work! You have got to really want these fenders on your Jeep! It is going to take a lot of time to install them! If you are not up to the job, have a professional install them or DO NOT buy them!”

Nemesis: Aluminum. “Whether your aim is a 35 inch tire with minimal lift or you are going all the way with 37 or even 40 inch tires with a more in depth suspension build, the added 4 inches on top of the tire and 5 inches of clearance behind the tire” “designed to work with the AEV highhood” “Installation can be handled by the average home installer, and can be completed in a day for the kit, using basic hand tools. There is no drilling or cutting required to install these fenders, you will reuse all of your factory hardware”