Front axle decision: Ford Dana 44 or Dana 60?

[Fouledplugs]

I already have the HP44 in the front with a truss and I'm getting some C-gussets for it as well. Right now I am running spicer BJs, chromo axles and stock u-joints. If I keep it then I will get Reid knuckles for the high steer and upgrade the shaft/u-joint combo. I might upgrade to 5.38s later on and use the Jana 54 kit if I do that. Jantz makes a kit to put the better JK gears in a regular 44 but only the low pinion 44 got the upgraded gears in a JK. I'm so torn and the biggest reason is the 05+ Super Duty axles are so freaking wide and I like my current width at 67/66" WMS and just over 82" outside the tire. If I go the Super Duty route then 40s are in my future, not sure I want to go that big.

Add full width one tons, add a long truss, and add some bracketry to bandaid the short driver side tube on the Superduty, boot on some 40’s with a mear 190hp to travel all across the country...? The swaps never stop I suppose.

I’m willing to bet my paycheck you dont wheel harder than the rock bouncer that I posted above who runs a Dana 44 and 9 inch. You may break stuff overtime but it will survive. But I get it, a high pinion Dana 60, cough* “kingpin” cough* would be sick to have under your Jeep. I prefer kingpins but the BJ 60 does have beefier knuckles and way better brakes.

 

[Fouledplugs]

I already have the HP44 in the front with a truss and I'm getting some C-gussets for it as well. Right now I am running spicer BJs, chromo axles and stock u-joints. If I keep it then I will get Reid knuckles for the high steer and upgrade the shaft/u-joint combo. I might upgrade to 5.38s later on and use the Jana 54 kit if I do that. Jantz makes a kit to put the better JK gears in a regular 44 but only the low pinion 44 got the upgraded gears in a JK. I'm so torn and the biggest reason is the 05+ Super Duty axles are so freaking wide and I like my current width at 67/66" WMS and just over 82" outside the tire. If I go the Super Duty route then 40s are in my future, not sure I want to go that big.

Dont rule out Crane. You can run their inner knuckle with your factory outer knuckle if you wanna spread the spending out. They accept both the factory outer knuckle and their aftermarket keyed outer knuckle.

https://craneaxle.com/crane-axle-dana-44-inner-knuckle-inner-c.html

 

[Wildman]

The Jantz 54 kit uses a D50 ring & pinion not the JK ring and pinion. That is why I linked the kit but you don't hear many people breaking a R&P. As I said I have been running 38" tires and heavy rims. I have a ARB & 5.13's right now.
I think just like the debate over the Dana 35 there is always going to be people who lean one way or the other.

My reasons up til now for not going with a HP60? PRICE PRICE PRICE. Around the PNW they sell for $1K or higher. Heck there is a D50 on CL right now and the guy wants $800 for it. The SuperDuty Dana 60's are a little cheaper but not by much. And my next reason is ground clearance. Unless I was buying a Rockjock or Dynatrac HP60 the Dana 60 is going to hang down there. So I would have to move up from my current 38" tires to 40+" tires which I am not ready to do. Only you know if you need a Dana 60.

 

[softballnrd27]

The Jantz 54 kit uses a D50 ring & pinion not the JK ring and pinion. That is why I linked the kit but you don't hear many people breaking a R&P. As I said I have been running 38" tires and heavy rims. I have a ARB & 5.13's right now.
I think just like the debate over the Dana 35 there is always going to be people who lean one way or the other.

My reasons up til now for not going with a HP60? PRICE PRICE PRICE. Around the PNW they sell for $1K or higher. Heck there is a D50 on CL right now and the guy wants $800 for it. The SuperDuty Dana 60's are a little cheaper but not by much. And my next reason is ground clearance. Unless I was buying a Rockjock or Dynatrac HP60 the Dana 60 is going to hang down there. So I would have to move up from my current 38" tires to 40+" tires which I am not ready to do. Only you know if you need a Dana 60.

I am familiar with the JANA 54 kit but someone mentioned putting the bigger JK R&P in my 44 and that won't work considering they only upgraded the rear to the bigger R&P. I can get a 05+ set of axles for $800
I want ground clearance and I will have more with 37s and 44/9" combo. If I were to go the super duty route then I would almost have to go to 40+ tires to get the clearance.

As far as the tube buggy with 44/9" I think it's awesome but he probably doesn't weigh as much as I do either.
I have looked into the crane inner/outers but at that point, I believe I am diving into 60 territory if I need to do that.

I plan to take it to Moab, JV, and all the big wheeling areas. I don't expect it to never break but I would like to manage the breakage.

 

[Wildman]

I am familiar with the JANA 54 kit but someone mentioned putting the bigger JK R&P in my 44 and that won't work considering they only upgraded the rear to the bigger R&P. I can get a 05+ set of axles for $800
I want ground clearance and I will have more with 37s and 44/9" combo. If I were to go the super duty route then I would almost have to go to 40+ tires to get the clearance.

As far as the tube buggy with 44/9" I think it's awesome but he probably doesn't weigh as much as I do either.
I have looked into the crane inner/outers but at that point, I believe I am diving into 60 territory if I need to do that.

I plan to take it to Moab, JV, and all the big wheeling areas. I don't expect it to never break but I would like to manage the breakage.

I'm with you on the clearance difference. I must have missed someone talking about the JK R&P.
I would continue to run the Dana 44/9" combo until you start to break.
When I had stock axles I had the Warn small hub kit on the front and back and carried 2 spares. Figured it was better to break one of those than something harder to replace. And that is where I am at right now. It is why I haven't gotten the RCV's yet. Your plans sound like mine more or less. I hope to start traveling here in a few years and I would like to go to all those places I have read about all these years.

My TJ is a pig too. It weighs about 5,200lbs so I know about our rigs weighing more than a tube buggy.

 

[Fouledplugs]

Not sure of the weight if the Dana 44 buggy. You may be right, but total Jeep bro science here, the bigger tires and increased horepower may play a bigger role than overall weight when considering what that 1/2 ton Buggy has under it as far as axles go. I still believe its a testament to the Dana 44 capabilites/potential.

 

[JMT]

Dana 44/9 unless you have big money and you want to go to 40's. I prefer 37's and think a TJ on 37's is the ultimate build for off-road performance while maintaining a drive-across the country rig.

 

[softballnrd27]

The whole big money concept is kind of misleading. If you got super duty axles they really don't cost that much more to build than any other axle you can swap in. Parts prices are very comparable. 37" vs 40" prices are pretty damn close too. If I didn't get a great deal on this current axles set I would have gone the 60/10.5 route. I could probably sell my current axles and build the 60/10.5 combo with hardly any extra money.

My biggest concerns with the 44 are the inner-knuckles and smaller u-joints. C-gussets will help and better u-joints. I'm just putting my ideas out there to get y'alls opinions. Trust me I appreciate them all.

Fouled, you are right he does have a little more motor than me, lol.

Also I'm in an LJ and I'd like to keep the weight down, but also weight down low isn't so bad either. Every aspect of both is a toss-up. Trade of here for this and vice versa. UUUGGGHHH!!!

I'm leaning towards wheel it till I start breaking too much then move forward from there.

 

[4speedhandler]

The whole big money concept is kind of misleading. If you got super duty axles they really don't cost that much more to build than any other axle you can swap in. Parts prices are very comparable. 37" vs 40" prices are pretty damn close too. If I didn't get a great deal on this current axles set I would have gone the 60/10.5 route. I could probably sell my current axles and build the 60/10.5 combo with hardly any extra money.

My biggest concerns with the 44 are the inner-knuckles and smaller u-joints. C-gussets will help and better u-joints. I'm just putting my ideas out there to get y'alls opinions. Trust me I appreciate them all.

Fouled, you are right he does have a little more motor than me, lol.

Also I'm in an LJ and I'd like to keep the weight down, but also weight down low isn't so bad either. Every aspect of both is a toss-up. Trade of here for this and vice versa. UUUGGGHHH!!!

I'm leaning towards wheel it till I start breaking too much then move forward from there.

Would I be correct in assuming you are running the factory 9" housing still? or is it an aftermarket housing?

 

[Fouledplugs]

He has a trussed factory 9 inch housing.

 

[4speedhandler]

He has a trussed factory 9 inch housing.

Thanks i missed that part. I was going to suggest the 10" dropout option but that wont fit a factory 9" housing if i'm not mistaken.

sorry for the sidetrack just thinking of ways to beef up the rear as well as the front while keeping weight gain to a minimum

 

[softballnrd27]

I will eventually upgrade the rear housing to full floater and a hi9 or 10" ring gear with 35 spline axles. I've even considered building a 609 hybrid front. That's big money though, lol

 

[softballnrd27]

It doesn't get babied offroad but I also know when to not hammer down. I don't bounce it around like the 1/2 ton bouncer.

 

[Wildman]

My thoughts on the full size Dana 44 as far as pluses are that they have stronger axle tubes than a factory Dana 30 or Dana 44 put into Jeeps. They have stronger inner "C" than a Dana 30/Dana 44 from Jeep. Yes they have the same sized u-joints at a Dana 30 but you can go to a you can go to a 30 spline outer stub shaft and as you said upgraded u-joints. I don't know that I have heard of a full size Dana 44 bending the inner "C" but I'm sure people have. Adding the "C" braces can't hurt and I am going to if I can fit them on mine. I narrowed my HP44 so I don't have as much room.
When I broke my rear HP60 ring gear I was bouncing it and didn't break the HP44 but did break the 60. When I did break the front I was in the snow and working the wheel side to side looking for traction. I had the ARB locked and I had Spicer u-joints in it at the time. It took out the u-joint and then the inner axle shaft ears. I had a spare inner shaft with me a swapped it out. Alloy USA gave me new shafts and I upgraded to Longfield u-joints at that point. But my TJ has been down now for a few years so I haven't really tested them out much.

 

[4speedhandler]

Have you looked at the old post on pirate titled "Project Acrophobia" it may have some insight for an inexpensive front axle option that is pretty damn stout.

 

[astjp2]

http://www.truehi9.com/https://baertrax.com/609-axles-2/

 

[Flivver250]

Moderation is for monks.

 

[Fouledplugs]

Moderation is for monks. View attachment 84499

Old news. 14 bolts, front and rear, are where it’s at now. Aftermarket support really took off for building 14 bolts when rock bouncing got huge down South. Some still desire the 2.5 outers welded onto their 14 bolts.

A shaved 14 bolt has more ground clearance than a 60 and just a little less than a factory Dana 44.

 

[Wildman]

Old news. 14 bolts, front and rear, are where it’s at now. Aftermarket support really took off for building 14 bolts when rock bouncing got huge down South. Some still desire the 2.5 outers welded onto their 14 bolts.

A shaved 14 bolt has more ground clearance than a 60 and just a little less than a factory Dana 44.

Ian on Extreme 4x4 really helped kick off the 14 bolt idea. When he built the front axle I think more people started to look at them. I could be wrong as I'm sure he wasn't the FIRST to come up with the idea but being shown in TV I'm sure helped move it along.

How much do you have to shave to get that clearance? Are we talking the BF machined ring gear and shave kit?

 

[Fouledplugs]

Ian on Extreme 4x4 really helped kick...

Are we talking the BF machined ring gear and shave kit?

Ian’s shop is out of Tenn. Tenn is where rock bouncing was born. He was just promotoing what he saw, which was great news for that small community.

Im talking about the TMR kit. Im sure BF is good too. I love BF stuff. And yes, shave that ring gear. Although Im not sure many, if any, are running shaved 14s anymore. Im not sure how common/popular it is anymore around here. Most of them just run the factory 14 centers and call it good.