Automatic and manual transmission comparison

[AndyG]

I have seen a lot of arguments about which transmission is better and I certainly understand that a lot of it is preference.

Also we recently had a thread along that line and I was surprised at how many people enjoy a manual Offroad.

Last year I picked up a 2006 automatic at a pretty good price with intention to play with her while and see what I thought since main squeeze is my white 2003 Rubicon manual.

Being able to drive one and immediately drive the other is eye opening.

So this thread is to share what I learned and to give potential buyers a little insight.

First of all the 4.0 works very well with an automatic transmission and it makes it feel like it has 25 to 30 more horsepower because it puts more torque out.

Secondly it's downright faster especially compared to the nv3550 because the shifter throw is so long on the nv3550 5 speed, and you don't have the bottom end power that you do with the automatic with a torque converter ....provided they are geared correctly.

On the road and especially in busy traffic the automatic is just effortless.

Offroad the automatic shines in a number of ways...

It's easier , and the more technical it gets , the better it works ... At the same time the automatic will probably generate more engine heat.... certainly more transmission heat .

And I think the biggest strength is that it allows the driver to focus on the obstacle, not the gear or keeping the vehicle alive . That is huge .

What it doesn't do as well as allow you to rev everything up real quick clean the tires off if you get into some mud... And I've been in some situations where I know I did not want to get out and have to hook up a winch because it meant knee-deep mud/ water. So the manual shines there.

There are more nuances beyond that but that's as far as I'm going to get into it at this point... Because here comes the part of the thread that's going to be a little odd-

I planned to sell the 06 all along , but once I got my hands on it I really enjoyed the automatic.... But none the less I can only keep one and my white one is a far cleaner, more valuable TJ, that I'm pretty attached to ... Plus the 03 has all terrains so it's a lot more comfortable on the road going back and forth to the trail.

So at the end of the day , here is where I am -



Is the 5 speed a bad move or a disadvantage? Absolutely not . The 5 and 6 speeds are sporty , fun , engaging and guys wheel them all over the world. Also , a manual , especially a thumb throttle , in a Rubicon in 4 lo is amazingly good , as the 4.0 is fairly resistant to stalling ... it all comes together very nice with that package.

There is a point you get to in hardcore rock crawling that you really need to consider an automatic...@JerryBransford and Mr. Blaine can explain this way better than me.. despite my avatar , they actually do it.


If I wanted to start over, I would find an an automatic , in the meantime I'm going to continue to enjoy my manual TJR , and the only way I'm going to ever part ways with it is to really find one that's comparable with an automatic...I would simply have to really want it more than what I have .

As long as I have a TJ , I'm going to be pretty happy.

 

[eastbloc]

In one of the MPG threads someone once wrote "smiles per gallon".
What ever makes you happy, go with it.
I am a manual guy, i am very happy with 6sp and don't understand why it is so disliked around here. I love everything about it, however im not going to say that it is better or worse in any way to automatic, and same thing around.

Drove my brothers 08 with auto, loved it, difference and convenience is there no argument. Definitely feels more powerful and responsive. Not my thing though, once in blue moon is fine, but... My brother on other hand sees no point in manuals. To each is their own.

No offense Andy, but potential buyer will do what any potential buyer does, regardless of what you will write on here.
And if buyer is unsure, auto is the way, it is written on invisible wall of Jeep commandments.... and 90% of cars on the road for that matter.

 

[AndyG]

In one of the MPG threads someone once wrote "smiles per gallon".
What ever makes you happy, go with it.
I am a manual guy, i am very happy with 6sp and don't understand why it is so disliked around here. I love everything about it, however im not going to say that it is better or worse in any way to automatic, and same thing around.

Drove my brothers 08 with auto, loved it, difference and convenience is there no argument. Definitely feels more powerful and responsive. Not my thing though, once in blue moon is fine, but... My brother on other hand sees no point in manuals. To each is their own.

No offense Andy, but potential buyer will do what any potential buyer does, regardless of what you will write on here.
And if buyer is unsure, auto is the way, it is written on invisible wall of Jeep commandments.... and 90% of cars on the road for that matter.

Good post.

For me it was a little bit ignorance... when I first got into getting a Jeep again...I had now idea how good the auto was ... You just didn't have many automatics back in the late 70s and early 80s in any Jeep. It's was real strange.

Specialty TJ dealers contend the demand is 50/50.

I'm with you , I can be happy either way .

 

[mrblaine]

At the end of the day, it is 100% personal preference. The main difference is that it costs a bunch more to make them the same capable offroad if you prefer a manual, that's it. I've built both, wheeled with the owners of both in JV. No one got left behind due to trans choice. Some could not do some of the things the manual could, but that wasn't trans.

 

[AndyG]

At the end of the day, it is 100% personal preference. The main difference is that it costs a bunch more to make them the same capable offroad if you prefer a manual, that's it. I've built both, wheeled with the owners of both in JV. No one got left behind due to trans choice. Some could not do some of the things the manual could, but that wasn't trans.

Very well said, as usual.

 

[eastbloc]

Good post.

For me it was a little bit ignorance... when I first got into getting a Jeep again...I had now idea how good the auto was ... You just didn't have many automatics back in the late 70s and early 80s in any Jeep. It's was real strange.

Specialty TJ dealers contend the demand is 50/50.

I'm with you , I can be happy either way .

I bet back then auto was commercialized as space age technology that did everything. And in next two decades, manuals will be looked at as forgotten superior technology, with countless articles about what it was like back in the days.

When observing such things, you also have to realize that if the process of evolution was taken away, autos from the beginning would have been standard, and manuals were optional. And that is because manual requires skill, and skill that is not something everyone possesses.
To some, certain skills will be a never obtained luxury. Just like i will always look like a retard in school despite my high IQ, my Asian friend will always be awkwardly retarded in life despite being an absolute genius. And my girl friend will never throw a ball or hold a rifle properly.

Give another 40 -50 years, and instead of debating about transmission type, this forum will be filled with "electric vs combustion jeep" threads. Electric guys will be all bout space ship technology, and combustion dudes will be stretching "real man drives ...." phrase.

 

[mrblaine]

I bet back then auto was commercialized as space age technology that did everything. And in next two decades, manuals will be looked at as forgotten superior technology, with countless articles about what it was like back in the days.

They will never be looked upon as superior forgotten technology because they aren't superior. Different yes, superior no.

When observing such things, you also have to realize that if the process of evolution was taken away, autos from the beginning would have been standard, and manuals were optional. And that is because manual requires skill, and skill that is not something everyone possesses.

Spoken like a true manual owner. No, they do not require more skill, they require a different skill set, but it is equivalent to the skill required to drive an auto. It is about the same learning curve as trap versus skeet. Trap shooters start hitting birds sooner and more of them versus skeet shooters. Skeet is much easier to master because the birds always fly the same paths. Trap is much harder to master because the path is never exactly the same. Auto and manual are the same. Auto is easier to learn, much harder to master. Manual is harder to learn but once you figure out how to not stall it, it isn't much different than driving a tractor.

 

[eastbloc]

They will never be looked upon as superior forgotten technology because they aren't superior. Different yes, superior no.



Spoken like a true manual owner. No, they do not require more skill, they require a different skill set, but it is equivalent to the skill required to drive an auto. It is about the same learning curve as trap versus skeet. Trap shooters start hitting birds sooner and more of them versus skeet shooters. Skeet is much easier to master because the birds always fly the same paths. Trap is much harder to master because the path is never exactly the same. Auto and manual are the same. Auto is easier to learn, much harder to master. Manual is harder to learn but once you figure out how to not stall it, it isn't much different than driving a tractor.

poteto potato, you are digging into words too deep

 

[DustinfromOhio]

Really hard to argue with the technology of the new 8 and 10 speed autos coming on the market.

 

[Midwest]

I prefer a manual but ended up with an automatic. It works and the wife can drive it, but is definitely not as engaging.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

poteto potato, you are digging into words too deep

Not really, he has mastered and built many of both.

 

[il buono]

I've never driven a manual before, but I knew I wanted my first Jeep to be a manual. That was the one requirement I wouldn't budge on. Having now owned my LJ for the past few months, I do not regret my choice. Sure has been fun getting to learn to drive stick on it

 

[AndyG]

I will throw something in a little interesting -

Here in the Pine trees of North Alabama /Southern Tennessee, we install a Rekluse auto clutch in all of our dirt bikes that we woods ride with ... It is simply an expanding cartridge that engages the clutch stack as you climb in RPMs... So when you chop the throttle the bike essentially goes to neutral but it stays in whatever gear you were in , so you have a hybrid of an automatic transmission and a manual at the same time sort of... Basically makes the bike a big Honda 50 that you can't stall.

As you play around with these, you find the auto clutch will teach you how much you can slip /feather the clutch on a stock bike ...in other words, the auto clutch makes you better on the non auto clutch machine .

Does that cross over to jeeps ? I can't say, but I know the automatic teaches you how important metering smooth power is to traction.

 

[pagrey]

Secondly it's downright faster especially compared to the nv3550 because the shifter throw is so long on the nv3550 5 speed, and you don't have the bottom end power that you do with the automatic with a torque converter ....provided they are geared correctly.

TJs with automatics are almost 2 seconds slower to 60 and over a full second slower in the 1/4 mile. If you think an auto is faster than a stick TJ you could be driving like my Grandmother.

Edit: I take that back, Grandma learned on a three-on-the tree like my Ford, she probably would do just fine

 

[AndyG]

TJs with automatics are almost 2 seconds slower to 60 and over a full second slower in the 1/4 mile. If you think an auto is faster than a stick TJ you could be driving like my Grandmother.

That may be the case or my automatic may be geared different ... But when you get in mine it will absolutely run off and leave my manual and my manual is geared correctly for the tires.

Just the lag from shifting gears is significant.

Can someone tell me what the formula for checking your gear ratio by measuring the drive shaft revolutions again is?

 

[mrblaine]

Does that cross over to jeeps ? I can't say, but I know the automatic teaches you how important metering smooth power is to traction.

That is the biggest thing in JV, being able to put it on a line and then work the throttle well enough to keep the tires at the limit of adhesion with maximum traction and forward progress. Also one of the hardest things to learn for auto drivers. They get it moving and then add more throttle. Breaks the tires loose, slides off the line, they get to do it again.

 

[mrblaine]

TJs with automatics are almost 2 seconds slower to 60 and over a full second slower in the 1/4 mile. If you think an auto is faster than a stick TJ you could be driving like my Grandmother.

We've tested that many times with folks who I had test drive my 04 auto who said their 5 speed was faster. They haven't beat me yet and it has 208,000 miles on it.

 

[AndyG]

We've tested that many times with folks who I had test drive my 04 auto who said their 5 speed was faster. They haven't beat me yet and it has 208,000 miles on it.

I agree based on my back to back experience. No question. Real world / Charts or not .

Would the automatics front drive shaft from the 2006 Rubicon fit into the 2003 manual front drive shaft... They rebalanced my front manual driveshaft end it is a lot better but the automatic is perfect , vibe free at 70+ and I'm thinking about swapping them before I sell the automatic

 

[pagrey]

We've tested that many times with folks who I had test drive my 04 auto who said their 5 speed was faster. They haven't beat me yet and it has 208,000 miles on it.

How does mileage effect HP in your opinion?

I can't help it if people don't know how to drive stick. I guess that's the issue, it's easier to drive an auto fast and I can't argue with that.

 

[mrblaine]

How does mileage effect HP in your opinion?

I can't help it if people don't know how to drive stick. I guess that's the issue, it's easier to drive an auto fast and I can't argue with that.

You would be hard pressed to find a better stick driver than the one in the rigs. He races a manual 600 HP BRZ.

I have no idea how mileage affects HP. I do know that the TJ is all over the map with how the stock 4.0 runs. We drive some that are so anemic you wonder if someone shoved a potato in the intake tube, others like mine run very well. No single factor seems to be responsible for good or bad performance.