Going through Spicer ball joints frequently

[gasiorv]

I have been going through ball joints really quickly lately. I have changed my drivers side ball joints twice this year, both times with Spicer 706994x and I am now going to be changing the passenger side (spicer with less than 5000 miles on it).

I am actually OK with the passenger side with less than 5000 miles since I wheel it pretty hard, but two sets of spicer ball joints on the drivers side in less than a year and it is all trail time, no road time, so mileage has been minimal this year.

It is always the lower ball joint (but I do replace both). I am running 35"x12.50x15 tires, stock Dana 44 knuckles. I know that oversize tires will wear balljoints faster, but every couple wheeling trips seems a little ridiculous.

Anyone else having issue with Spicer Ball Joints? Any suggestions on other ball joints?

As I am typing this and coming to the reality of having to change them, I really don't mind the cost, or doing the work. They are relatively cheap and I actually keep a spare set in my spare parts box.

 

[Gollywomper]

What exactly is failing on them?

 

[gasiorv]

Lower ball joint gets movement in the radial and/or the up down directions.

 

[GA05LJ]

I have been following the Ball Joint Eliminator group(s) on FB and keep reading reviews praising how great they are.

Of course im skeptical and while they have now been out a while its still probably too soon to make a judgement call on thier effectiveness.

Anyway just something to keep in mind if you keep having trouble with standard joints.

 

[Gollywomper]

Lower ball joint gets movement in the radial and/or the up down directions.

You sure your inner C is not worn or bent?

 

[gasiorv]

It is definitely the ball joints and not the C or the knuckle.

 

[twistedlv]

Well this is disappointing news, as I have a set of those in the garage ready for me to get off my ass and install them. Where did you source these? Chinese knock-offs of most anything are getting really prevalent, and it seems no one is really doing anything about it.
(please, please don't be Amazon)

 

[rasband]

Well this is disappointing news, as I have a set of those in the garage ready for me to get off my ass and install them. Where did you source these? Chinese knock-offs of most anything are getting really prevalent, and it seems no one is really doing anything about it.
(please, please don't be Amazon)

Yeah, I am not buying anymore amazon stuff for my jeep. I got fake timken axle seals and they leaked within 30 miles. Too many people getting defrauded there for me to order another vehicle part.

 

[Mrholland]

Some up and down movement is fine, if they don't come outta the box like that, they'll be like that in a couple of thousand miles. Its normal

 

[gasiorv]

Bought them from Amazon. I just ordered them from Amazon again.

Thanks, I will keep in mind that a little up down in play is ok. But I am assuming that is with knuckle removed and there shouldn't be any movement when installed and torqued properly?

 

[hosejockey61]

Bought them from Amazon. I just ordered them from Amazon again.

That could be your issue. I was sold knock off BJ's advertised as Spicer. I happened to have a spare set in my shop and there was no comparison. I sent them back and tried to report it to Scamazon but they don't give a crap. I've had really good luck ordering from Summit.

 

[mrblaine]

Lower ball joint gets movement in the radial and/or the up down directions.

They always move radially. The vertical play tolerance for the lower is .060 which even street only versions develop in a short amount of time. Since the lower is forced into the socket by the weight of the rig, I only worry when the uppers develop ANY lateral play. Then I replace both but not until then.

 

[rasband]

That could be your issue. I was sold knock off BJ's advertised as Spicer. I happened to have a spare set in my shop and there was no comparison. I sent them back and tried to report it to Scamazon but they don't give a crap. I've had really good luck ordering from Summit.

@hosejockey61 also had a proper set of axle seals after my Amazon bullshit (mentioned above) that I think he got from summit. They were night and day different.

That’s not to say all things from Amazon are crap, but this was a good example of when they may be.

 

[Gollywomper]

That could be your issue. I was sold knock off BJ's advertised as Spicer. I happened to have a spare set in my shop and there was no comparison. I sent them back and tried to report it to Scamazon but they don't give a crap. I've had really good luck ordering from Summit.

I like summit. If they have it in stock in Reno warehouse I get my stuff the next day.

 

[gasiorv]

They always move radially. The vertical play tolerance for the lower is .060 which even street only versions develop in a short amount of time. Since the lower is forced into the socket by the weight of the rig, I only worry when the uppers develop ANY lateral play. Then I replace both but not until then.

My use of radial and your use of lateral may be the same. When I say radial, I mean that the "ball" moves fwd/aft and inbd/outd in the socket, I am not meaning the actual stud (which is free to rotate since it is attached to a ball/socket). So if the ball has radial (or lateral) play the actual ball and socket have wear.

I was not aware that there was a tolerance on the up/down, so that is good information. Thanks! I would suspect that this up/down of 0.060 would only be noticeable when the knuckle was removed and not when it is installed and torqued since the upper would hold it in place. So If I am getting any movement with the knuckle installed and torqued then the ball joints need replaced?

Based on the above 0.060" tolerance I may have changed one set of ball joints incorrectly because I noted up/down play in the lower ball joint with the knuckle removed and I just assumed any movement was bad.

 

[mrblaine]

My use of radial and your use of lateral may be the same. When I say radial, I mean that the "ball" moves fwd/aft and inbd/outd in the socket, I am not meaning the actual stud (which is free to rotate since it is attached to a ball/socket). So if the ball has radial (or lateral) play the actual ball and socket have wear.

I was not aware that there was a tolerance on the up/down, so that is good information. Thanks! I would suspect that this up/down of 0.060 would only be noticeable when the knuckle was removed and not when it is installed and torqued since the upper would hold it in place. So If I am getting any movement with the knuckle installed and torqued then the ball joints need replaced?

Based on the above 0.060" tolerance I may have changed one set of ball joints incorrectly because I noted up/down play in the lower ball joint with the knuckle removed and I just assumed any movement was bad.

The lower is a ball and socket. If it moves down, it isn't fully in the socket and can have some small amount of lateral play until it is forced back into the socket.

No, the upper does not hold the knuckle up since it is not a ball and socket but a round pin that floats vertically to compensate for the two tapered holes being small distances apart. It is nearly impossible or cost prohibitive to machine two tapers to an exact distances so they make the upper ball joint pin float up and down to deal with that. The two pics show a new TJ Upper moved to both ends of the float.

 

[Goatman]

60 thousandths is a lot of movement. More than most would think. You should be able to feel this amount of movement with the tire on and you yanking on it.

 

[gasiorv]

I only worry when the uppers develop ANY lateral play. Then I replace both but not until then.

Thanks for all the info! I may have been changing these ball joints prematurely due to my lack of understanding. Luckily they are not that expensive, and I am now very familiar with how to change ball joints.


Anyone reading this in the future. Apparently there is NOT an issue with Spicer ball joints or Amazon parts and any reference to Spicer or Spicer parts bought via Amazon as noted in this thread is incorrect. The issue was just my mis-understanding of what is "wear".

 

[Rubicon88]

Thanks for all the info! I may have been changing these ball joints prematurely due to my lack of understanding. Luckily they are not that expensive, and I am now very familiar with how to change ball joints.


Anyone reading this in the future. Apparently there is NOT an issue with Spicer ball joints or Amazon parts and any reference to Spicer or Spicer parts bought via Amazon as noted in this thread is incorrect. The issue was just my mis-understanding of what is "wear".

That is not true.

There is bad parts all over the place.
It's gotten so bad we just won't install parts that a customer already bought online from Rock auto, Amazon, etc.

It shouldn't be this way but customers somehow tie you to the parts...like we're standing there at the lathe on the assembly line making the parts as well before we install them.

The other issue is the return should there be a problem.

I've wrote up stories on here of bad instances like egg shaped rotors that are "brand new" ... etc..etc...

Buying local if there is a problem you can walk back in with bad parts and say looky looky here...

I'm not saying all parts online are defective or counterfeit but it's a very real thing alright!!!!

 

[mrblaine]

That is not true.

There is bad parts all over the place.
It's gotten so bad we just won't install parts that a customer already bought online from Rock auto, Amazon, etc.

It shouldn't be this way but customers somehow tie you to the parts...like we're standing there at the lathe on the assembly line making the parts as well before we install them.

The other issue is the return should there be a problem.

I've wrote up stories on here of bad instances like egg shaped rotors that are "brand new" ... etc..etc...

Buying local if there is a problem you can walk back in with bad parts and say looky looky here...

I'm not saying all parts online are defective or counterfeit but it's a very real thing alright!!!!

To put that in perspective, we pick up a lot of our brake parts at a local wholesale auto parts distributor because they have a loading dock and we don't. They carry the Centric line just like we do. We do not share a single part between what they sell and what we sell because they do not buy any of the premium line. They don't because none of the shops they deliver to will pay for it. Shops by and large do not request or use the top dollar items and so they have to deal with egg shaped drums, and bad out of the box crunchy u-joints. There is a reason Spicer U-joints and Timken are not carried around us locally and it isn't because they are bad parts.