Anything is Fixable: Dylan_See's TJ Build Thread
- Thread starter Dylan_See_TJ
- Start date
It’s a shuddering, rhythmic groaning that only is heard in reverse. I’m pretty sure it’s the reverse band slipping on the drum, and that’s probably one of the following:
- not enough fluid (still?!)
- TV cable too slack and not putting enough pressure into the line (but you’d think the gas would get it to move, so that might not be it either)
- problem with the valve body (fluid could be leaking somewhere or a valve could be assembled wrong, maybe, so perhaps fluid isn’t filling the rear servo properly)
- servo problem (rolled seal, badly scratched bore, cocked in the bore, or something causing the servo not to hold pressure in reverse.
- band problem (the band might not be tight enough, despite the bolt being adjusted to the correct specs during the rebuild; perhaps I unwittingly messed with it, or it needs to be adjusted somehow)
Going to quadruple check fluid level and monkey with the TV cable before I go dropping the skid and removing the pan to get at the valve body.
- not enough fluid (still?!)
- TV cable too slack and not putting enough pressure into the line (but you’d think the gas would get it to move, so that might not be it either)
- problem with the valve body (fluid could be leaking somewhere or a valve could be assembled wrong, maybe, so perhaps fluid isn’t filling the rear servo properly)
- servo problem (rolled seal, badly scratched bore, cocked in the bore, or something causing the servo not to hold pressure in reverse.
- band problem (the band might not be tight enough, despite the bolt being adjusted to the correct specs during the rebuild; perhaps I unwittingly messed with it, or it needs to be adjusted somehow)
Going to quadruple check fluid level and monkey with the TV cable before I go dropping the skid and removing the pan to get at the valve body.
I guess order of operations is recheck fluid level, adjust TV cable, then if neither of those help, pull the skid plate and pan and readjust the rear band. If that doesn't work, I guess I'll be pulling the valve body and checking those parts, and if that doesn't work, the transmission will have to come out to let me strip it down to the clutch packs and check those again. 
First, did I tell ya you were gonna have to drop the pan again, before you even started?
The throttle response…is it slipping? If yiu just rev it in neutral does it go? What about if you twist the throttle at the throttle body? Same thing?
Reverse shouldn’t really depend on the TV cable, you could disconnect it and you’ll still have reverse. You have a good strong 3rd gear? It & reverse both use the direct drum, so if you have D but not R it’s probably the band or the applying of the band Does Manual 1 work ok?
The throttle response…is it slipping? If yiu just rev it in neutral does it go? What about if you twist the throttle at the throttle body? Same thing?
Reverse shouldn’t really depend on the TV cable, you could disconnect it and you’ll still have reverse. You have a good strong 3rd gear? It & reverse both use the direct drum, so if you have D but not R it’s probably the band or the applying of the band Does Manual 1 work ok?
The L/R band adjustment can be done by just dropping the pan. Are you sure you put the band in on the correct side of the pins, to keep it in place when it applies?
I’ve never had any problem with those servos, they go in pretty easy. Did you install them wet or dry? When you assemble that section I think it’s pretty easy to tell if they go in clean so I doubt it’s that.
A groaning noise feels like a rotational thing. So the band on the drum, or the drum against the roller clutch?
I’ve never had any problem with those servos, they go in pretty easy. Did you install them wet or dry? When you assemble that section I think it’s pretty easy to tell if they go in clean so I doubt it’s that.
A groaning noise feels like a rotational thing. So the band on the drum, or the drum against the roller clutch?
It doesn’t appear to be slipping in drive, and will not go if I rev it in neutral. The TV cable was really loose and monkeying with that cleaned up the throttle response. I have not gotten going fast enough for 3rd gear or even 2nd. Manual 1 works fine.
The servos went in wet, not dry. Agreed that the groaning seems rotational, especially because it’s rhythmic and speeds up with throttle pressure. I was thinking it might be the band trying to grab the drum, and maybe I did mess up and not seat the band correctly. Would have sworn I did though.
I will have to drop the skid plate and take the pan off tomorrow and see if the l/r band is wrong somehow; maybe partially drop the valve body (except for that damn park rod) and air check the rear servo again? It clamped fine during the initial checks before we installed the valve body. I don’t know; I’m sure something is messed up. Should I try and get it going faster and see if I get 2nd and 3rd good in order to rule out the direct drum?
The servos went in wet, not dry. Agreed that the groaning seems rotational, especially because it’s rhythmic and speeds up with throttle pressure. I was thinking it might be the band trying to grab the drum, and maybe I did mess up and not seat the band correctly. Would have sworn I did though.
I will have to drop the skid plate and take the pan off tomorrow and see if the l/r band is wrong somehow; maybe partially drop the valve body (except for that damn park rod) and air check the rear servo again? It clamped fine during the initial checks before we installed the valve body. I don’t know; I’m sure something is messed up. Should I try and get it going faster and see if I get 2nd and 3rd good in order to rule out the direct drum?
If you have no issue in forward gears thus far I would road test it and get it to 3rd and test the lockup. If you have 3rd that will tell us some things.
If you air checked it then you’re probably ok there. Plus manual 1 uses the L/R band too, so I’m feeling valve body. Internet is out in the neighborhood so I can’t pull up the FSM to check what valves work in reverse.
You checked the fluid level running, at temp, in neutral?
If you air checked it then you’re probably ok there. Plus manual 1 uses the L/R band too, so I’m feeling valve body. Internet is out in the neighborhood so I can’t pull up the FSM to check what valves work in reverse.
You checked the fluid level running, at temp, in neutral?
Ok, I'll road test it when I get it home from work tomorrow and see how 2nd and 3rd are. Valve body would be "good", because I can pull and mess with that without removing the transmission from the Jeep. I did check fluid level running in neutral, but it might not have been hot enough. I will check again tomorrow when I road test it. Full capacity should be 9ish quarts because of the deep pan, and I think I'm about there, but it might not be full enough.
It’s not that sensitive to the level, despite what a certain former member would lead you to believe, if you’ve run across his formulaic posts. But it’s easy to be well short right after a rebuild. There’s lots of places for it to fill up. It’s like a mechanical sponge.
When you bolted down the pump, did you have any trouble rotating the input shaft afterward? That’s another last minute check I do, sometimes it won’t seat just right, and you’ll know cuz the shaft will be impossible to turn. I doubt that’s an issue, again, just collecting data here.
When you bolted down the pump, did you have any trouble rotating the input shaft afterward? That’s another last minute check I do, sometimes it won’t seat just right, and you’ll know cuz the shaft will be impossible to turn. I doubt that’s an issue, again, just collecting data here.
How easy is the input shaft supposed to be to turn? I could turn it, but not very easily, although that probably had a lot to do with it and my gloves being slippery from ATF.
If the pump wasn't seated correctly, could that cause problems with the direct clutch drum that would translate to the no reverse I'm getting? That seems to make sense.
I don't know that it's actually a seating problem, more of a clearance problem,like maybe that fiber thrust washer falls out. It's usually accompanied by the pump REALLY not wanting to drop home. I really doubt that's related. But if you don't have 3rd gear then it won't matter because we're probably taking it apart anyway.
I wish I could just be there and put my hands on it.
I wouldn't say it's easy, but usually i can grab it with a paper towel and turn it without spraining my elbow. It doesn't just spin like a tire when the jeep is jacked up...more like if you've ever jacked up the car and tried to spin the wheels by turning the driveshaft by hand. If that makes any sense.
I didn't struggle to get the pump in much at all. Lowered it in using a hand on the top and my slide hammer threaded partially into one of the threaded parts of the pump, and it pretty much dropped right in. Had to give it a couple bumps with a deadblow hammer to get it all the way in, but didn't hit it very hard and it seemed to "want" to drop in. I slathered that thrust washer in assemblee goo, so I don't think it fell off, but anything is possible, I suppose. The shaft was pretty hard to turn, if I remember correctly. I can twist the old one and see how the feel compares.
I will have to see if I have 3rd. Hopefully it kicks into 3rd fine, because then I can probably rule out the direct drum. If not, it's probably gonna have to come back apart.
Road test was disheartening to say the least. I let it idle for 15 mins or so until it was definitely at operating temp, checked the fluid level and topped it off, and tried to drive it. No second. No third. No second in manual 2. Seems to be slipping in manual 1. Kind of a total disaster. At this point it’s pretty much a given that it’s gonna need to come out again and be almost completely redone.
Oh man that sucks.
But……if you dare, run the rpms waaay up in D. See if you can it it to go into 3rd. It thinks it’s in 2nd; it doesn’t realize the band hasn’t applied (it’s a 32RH not a 32GPT), so if you can get it up high enough it will still try to do the 2-3 shift, and then you’ll know if you’re missing both or just 2nd.
Every situation is unique, but I have never had a missing 2nd not find 3rd at enough rpm.
But……if you dare, run the rpms waaay up in D. See if you can it it to go into 3rd. It thinks it’s in 2nd; it doesn’t realize the band hasn’t applied (it’s a 32RH not a 32GPT), so if you can get it up high enough it will still try to do the 2-3 shift, and then you’ll know if you’re missing both or just 2nd.
Every situation is unique, but I have never had a missing 2nd not find 3rd at enough rpm.
We can do this, even if we have to Zoom all weekend.
I got the "rebuilt" unit out. Hitting the hay because it's 4 in the morning, and assessing both of my options tomorrow to formulate a plan.
Started tearing both down simultaneously. First up, my direct drum thrust washers are stacked in the wrong order. Also, I apparently didn’t install one of the two accumulator springs on top of the valve body, because I can’t find that either.
Similar threads
