How ya doin. I'm lifting my tj in the next few weeks, but need a little help. I want something that can take the abuse of moderate - slightly aggressive terrain (deep mud, shallow stream/river, decent sized boulders) but also want to be able to reach highway speeds safely lol. My only requirement is 35in. tires, other than that I'm torn between long arm or short arm, lift size, tube fenders or stock, and other possible essentials. Any help would be great. Again, looking for medium-heavy offroad, but still highway worthy. Thanks!
Best overall build?
- Thread starter Revenant4x4
- Start date
I'll preface this by saying that there is no such thing as a good bolt-on long arm lift, period.
If money is no option, the best setup would be the Savvy mid-arm (or similar).
But that leads to the question: How much money are you prepared to spend?
If money is no option, the best setup would be the Savvy mid-arm (or similar).
But that leads to the question: How much money are you prepared to spend?
I was looking to keep the lift itself at or around 1500 to 1700, not including SYC and driveshaft if it comes to it. If I have to spend a little more I wouldnt be upset
Currie 4” short arm or savvy 4” short arm is going to be the best you can buy for what you’re describing. Savvy mid arms (I have them) solve issues that aren’t going to be encountered by the off road if you’re doing. Bolt on long arms are a joke and shouldn’t be run.
Should also mention im going to swap the gears, either to Rubicon 4.10s or 4.56s, I'd rather keep the entire build under $6000
This is more than your looking to spend but running 35's isn't cheap and the kit comes with everything you'll need. (other than sye) https://www.morris4x4center.com/cur...MIo_SHoPGn5wIVyJ-zCh2I9wK5EAQYASABEgIZ9PD_BwE
(this kit is the cream of the crop)
I had 4.10 for a while before swapping to 4.88 (2001 manual transmission). On the highway, you'll be fine but offroad 4.88 will give you much more control. If I was to do it again I would probably go to 5.13 or 5.36 since I would prefer a higher crawl ratio to being able to cruise at 80 on the highway.
(this kit is the cream of the crop)
I had 4.10 for a while before swapping to 4.88 (2001 manual transmission). On the highway, you'll be fine but offroad 4.88 will give you much more control. If I was to do it again I would probably go to 5.13 or 5.36 since I would prefer a higher crawl ratio to being able to cruise at 80 on the highway.
The kit looks well worth the money, but I'd rather not have to mess with the motor mounts just yet
How much are you willing to spend, and are you willing to take a significant amount of time and effort to set it up? You're probably looking at 10k in parts to do it right the first time. $5k to get you road worthy on 35s, $5k to make it work well and survive the trails.
I chose the route of a Savvy 4" SL and 1.25" BL. That is a great start for 35s. You'll need trackbars, shocks, and a bunch of other components with it as well.
You'll need to beef up your axles to handle 35s. If you have a rear Dana 35, you should look into the "Super 35" upgrade. If you have a rear Dana 44, upgrading isn't as necessary. The front will need chromoly shafts if you're not willing to risk a broken shaft. Rear chromoly shafts for the Dana 44 are a good idea.
You'll need to regear. How urgent this is depends on which engine, transmission, and gear ratio you currently have. A 4.0 with NSG370 and 4.10 gears will still be decent to drive, but the same 4.0 on the 42RLE and 3.73 gears will be abysmal. The optimal gear ratio will depend on tire size, transmission, engine, and possibly axle type. You'll probably also want lockers front and rear. Best to do that at the same time as the regear. Installing them together will save you on the order of $1000 in labor versus regearing and adding lockers separately.
You'll need to do some driveline work. In the rear you'll need a slip yoke eliminator (unless you have a Rubicon) and a double cardan driveshaft.
You'll need to figure out a stronger tire carrier solution. I chose to get a tire carrier bumper.
If you're willing to weld, the possibilities increase greatly from there. Four link and three link kits (Savvy and Genright) for the front and rear axles can improve on and off road handling. Long arm kits can increase suspension travel, but at the cost of poor handling in specific scenarios. (Most long arm kits are not popular on this forum.)
You'll want to upgrade the brakes. The Black Magic Brakes Vanco big brake kits are very popular on this forum. The standard 15/16" kits are very popular for 35s. Larger kits are available if you need excessive performance for towing or mountains.
Depending upon your wheels, you may also want new rims. Ideally a 15x8 or 17x8 wheel with 3.75" of backspacing would be used for 35s. 16x8 can also be used, but you'll be stuck with stiffer load range D and E tires. I chose to stick with 16", but it may not be the best solution for most. Wheel spacers can also be used to achieve the correct backspacing. (Be sure to get a quality set if you choose that route. If they fail it could have disastrous consequences.)
As to being able to drive on the freeway, it's all about how you set it up. You have to be willing to sit there and fine tune everything to get rid of all the vibrations and oddball steering characteristics that come with altering suspension geometry. As of right now, I am comfortable doing 80 mph on 35s, and hope to get to the point where I can pass at 90 without having a heart attack. (I don't want to do 90, but I'd rather not get stuck in oncoming traffic passing someone who suddenly remembered they wanted to do 80. )
My recommendation: start with a quality 4" short arm suspension lift and 1.25" body lift, RS5000X shocks, 35" tires, and build from there. Once you get all the necessary upgrades (axles, gearing, brakes, etc.) then you can consider going to a weld on suspension kit or other modifications if you see them necessary. (Unless you get into some serious rock crawling, they probably won't be necessary.)
I chose the route of a Savvy 4" SL and 1.25" BL. That is a great start for 35s. You'll need trackbars, shocks, and a bunch of other components with it as well.
You'll need to beef up your axles to handle 35s. If you have a rear Dana 35, you should look into the "Super 35" upgrade. If you have a rear Dana 44, upgrading isn't as necessary. The front will need chromoly shafts if you're not willing to risk a broken shaft. Rear chromoly shafts for the Dana 44 are a good idea.
You'll need to regear. How urgent this is depends on which engine, transmission, and gear ratio you currently have. A 4.0 with NSG370 and 4.10 gears will still be decent to drive, but the same 4.0 on the 42RLE and 3.73 gears will be abysmal. The optimal gear ratio will depend on tire size, transmission, engine, and possibly axle type. You'll probably also want lockers front and rear. Best to do that at the same time as the regear. Installing them together will save you on the order of $1000 in labor versus regearing and adding lockers separately.
You'll need to do some driveline work. In the rear you'll need a slip yoke eliminator (unless you have a Rubicon) and a double cardan driveshaft.
You'll need to figure out a stronger tire carrier solution. I chose to get a tire carrier bumper.
If you're willing to weld, the possibilities increase greatly from there. Four link and three link kits (Savvy and Genright) for the front and rear axles can improve on and off road handling. Long arm kits can increase suspension travel, but at the cost of poor handling in specific scenarios. (Most long arm kits are not popular on this forum.)
You'll want to upgrade the brakes. The Black Magic Brakes Vanco big brake kits are very popular on this forum. The standard 15/16" kits are very popular for 35s. Larger kits are available if you need excessive performance for towing or mountains.
Depending upon your wheels, you may also want new rims. Ideally a 15x8 or 17x8 wheel with 3.75" of backspacing would be used for 35s. 16x8 can also be used, but you'll be stuck with stiffer load range D and E tires. I chose to stick with 16", but it may not be the best solution for most. Wheel spacers can also be used to achieve the correct backspacing. (Be sure to get a quality set if you choose that route. If they fail it could have disastrous consequences.)
As to being able to drive on the freeway, it's all about how you set it up. You have to be willing to sit there and fine tune everything to get rid of all the vibrations and oddball steering characteristics that come with altering suspension geometry. As of right now, I am comfortable doing 80 mph on 35s, and hope to get to the point where I can pass at 90 without having a heart attack. (I don't want to do 90, but I'd rather not get stuck in oncoming traffic passing someone who suddenly remembered they wanted to do 80. )
My recommendation: start with a quality 4" short arm suspension lift and 1.25" body lift, RS5000X shocks, 35" tires, and build from there. Once you get all the necessary upgrades (axles, gearing, brakes, etc.) then you can consider going to a weld on suspension kit or other modifications if you see them necessary. (Unless you get into some serious rock crawling, they probably won't be necessary.)
Chasing the "best overall build" for bolt on components is an elusive target. There are several top quality contenders, which include Currie, Savvy and Metalcloak. There are subtle differences with each, which requires the consumer study each and match them against their requirements/budget. Ultimately, the best approach is to piece together the pieces that will work for your needs.
I'm doing
I'll be doing more mudding than rock crawling, but I like to have the option to do both. Its a tj sport, so no Rubicon was available in that year. Would I be better off upgrading the f35 or just swapping it out for a Dana 44?
With 6K going to be short to do 35s right.
Currie 4” - $2600
SYE / Driveshaft - $600
Wheel / Tires - $2000
Body Lift - $140
Motor Mount Lift - $100
Steering Upgrade - $200 or $500
Shocks $200-$1200
Gears - $1500
Axle Shafts - $800-$2000
Optional Bang for Buck
Tummy Tuck - $300-$600
35s. Reliable and Cheap don’t go together.
My advice, build for 31s with lockers / winch and go have fun
Currie 4” - $2600
SYE / Driveshaft - $600
Wheel / Tires - $2000
Body Lift - $140
Motor Mount Lift - $100
Steering Upgrade - $200 or $500
Shocks $200-$1200
Gears - $1500
Axle Shafts - $800-$2000
Optional Bang for Buck
Tummy Tuck - $300-$600
35s. Reliable and Cheap don’t go together.
My advice, build for 31s with lockers / winch and go have fun
When put like that, it's a lot easier to order parts, like a grocery list. That's more than 6k but I'd rather spend the money on upgrades now, then tow trucks and possible medical bills later. Thank you for the simplicity lol
Well, you're not going to get a quality lift for that price, and that certainly isn't enough money to run 35s the way you want to.
To run 35s effectively with quality parts, you're going to need to spend around 10k or more.
You'll need a big brake kit (this is very important if you value your safety), a Currie 4" short arm, SYE and CV driveshaft, proper gearing, alloy axle shafts, lockers (ideally), shocks, and a number of other little things. Either way, when you add all that stuff up plus tires, you're easily looking at 10k or more for quality parts.
Running 35s isn't cheap, that's for sure.
$1500 to $1700 won't get you more than a shit quality Rough Country lift, some shocks, and maybe a few other parts. But if you want to wheel it and not worry, you're going to want the higher end parts, trust me.
I still urge you to read through build threads and the TJ resource sections. I’m sure there is things I over looked and probably every one their own varied opinion of what’s needed to run 35s well but that’s my idea of what I’m working towards if I decide to not go smaller.
Its easier to do the MML (motor mount lift) when you do the BL (body lift) so you don't need to worry about modifying the fan shroud. Also, the mml will lower the driveshaft angle in the rear making vibs less likely. A major con of doing the mml later would be needing to re-adjust the control arms. A mml is a fairly easy job. I would recommend the aluminum spacer type over the brown dog. The brown dog seem to cause increased vibrations in many jeeps.
I'm used to building a cheap xj, blowing it up, selling it or building it, and repeat. Just now getting into reliable things lol
Would mml matter in the future, if for say, I wanted to do a 2.8 diesel swap in a few years?
If you can find a Dana 44 inexpensively, go for it. If not, go with the Super 35. The Super 35 brings the axle shafts to the same size as the Dana 44 shafts, and is notoriously stout. A lot of the rock crawlers on this forum run Super 35 axles. Still not as strong as a Dana 44 with chromoly axles and it's larger ring gear, but for mudding and moderate crawling the Super 35 is more than stout enough. An unmodified Dana 35 can be used lightly with some success, but if you break an axle shaft, you probably won't be able to drive it home. Better to upgrade and not take the risk.
For deep mud especially, you'll want lockers. You could use an auto locker like a Detroit locker or a selectable like an Eaton eLocker. Personally, I prefer selectable. Going from open axles to locked axles is like going from 2wd to 4wd again. Instead of only spinning one front and one rear tire when you get bogged, you can lock the axles and spin all four at the exact same speed. And for rock crawling, if you end up with one tire in the air, you pretty much lose all propulsion on that axle on a non-locked differential. Lock it and you can idle out of it. If you decide to get lockers, plan on doing them the same time as your regear. Seeing as you have the 4.0 and AX-15, you'll probably want to regear to 5.13 front and rear regardless.
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