It's too bad you weren't able to get the 6R80 to work well in your Jeep. I absolutely love mine.
Building a diesel powered RHD TJ Wrangler (Picture Heavy)
- Thread starter RustyAutoholicGuy
- Start date
I've been offered a chance to go back to the 6r80 with a different adapter AND a different controller. The challenge for me there is I can't run my Rubicon transfer case with the 6r80 because I can't get the correct input shaft for the transfer case. I'll be honestly, it's so tempting to switch back, the 6-speed is awesome, and I think it would really work well too . . . it's something I'm still really considering at this point, I just don't know what transfer case I would pair with the transmission . . .
-Grant
WOW I know that had to be a great feeling to finally get it out driving again. I know it's been a long haul for you but you are at the end now.
Could you get the crawlbox with the correct spline for the 6r80 & then the 241? Do you have the room for it? Plus then you'd have the 2.72 & 4.1 gearing...
It was a fantastic feeling! I can't put into words how good it felt, though all the other things I still have to fix are now obvious as well. I REALLY need to do ball joints and tie rods for my steering.
As for my 6r80, I'm debating going back to it and trying it again with what I have because then I don't need new driveshafts or anything else. Going with a NP231 would be the easiest setup, and I would just need to fabricate a new crossmember, at that point I could swap between the AW4/NVG241OR and 6r80/NP231 setup with changing much else.
It's really tempting to try it out to see if I can get it working this time around.
Thanks
Grant
The first step to dealing with addiction is admitting you have a problem. You're obviously one of those perpetual project guys like most us enablers!
It just cost so much money . . . also I'm in this weird position where my driveshafts will work both setups, but yes . . Atlas is tempting . . .
You know, you're not wrong! I'm still weighing the pros and cons of this route.
I'm almost positive I need gear my axles regardless if I go back to the 6r80 or stay with my AW4, the questions is which gear ratios do I go with?
-Grant
Tire size?
What do the torque and hp curves look like compared to the 4.0l? More or less torque?
My gut wants to say don't gear as deep as for gas.but isn't the tdi a high revver?
Because of the turbo and custom turbo tune setup, I'm not sure what the curve looks like but I know these engines like to cruise above 2000 rpm. I've got 31.8 tires and I've been messing around with this site: http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html and it looks like 4.56 might work out great, 55mph in 4th is the only question there but it's right at 2000 rpm so it might be fine. I need to do some road testing to see how torque lock up affects rpm in both locked and unlocked positions at 55mph. I might need to look for a low stall speed torque converter first before I look into regearing.
-Grant
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Hey TJers,
As with all swaps and builds, once you get some seat time on your project you start discovering problems or mistakes that were made during the build. In my case, I had some problems that went back years that I had solved by either replacing, rewiring, or even removing parts to get my TDI Swapped TJ Wrangler running correctly, and I still have a few minor things left to address!
First was a ground issue that I know I've been having for a while now. Turns out when I thought I had grounded the engine and the frame of my Wrangler, I had actually ground the engine and the engine. I put one of my ground wires to the top of the motor mount plate which rested on a hydraulic motor mount. Easy enough to figure out, just moved that ground wire to the bottom of the motor mount which then gave me a grounded frame. I was still having some weird issues with my gauges and even my transmission solenoids however when I turned on my HVAC blower fan. Turns out that at some point in the past 5 years, I put a ground wire to the mounting stud for the blower fan. Changing that ground solved all my issues there.
I then went to address my AW4 transmission leaks. I had two, one was from where the TV cable used to be, and the second I thought was a bad rear main seal on the backside of the transmission where the transfer case bolts to the transmission. Turns out you can not use a clocking ring on a NVG241OR transfercase because the input shaft for that transfer case is so short. Removing the clocking ring rotated the Rubicon transfer case higher which gave me more ground clearance but was making contact with the body. SO I did what any sensible person does, and I took a 2.5lb hammer to make a little bit of extra clearance on the tub of my Wrangler.
While doing all of this, I tried a quick fix to the hole for the TV Cable in my transmission case but ended up dropping a rubber stopper into the transmission pan. This ended up being a major blessing because when I removed the transmission pan I found one of my valvebody bolts in the bottom of the pan. I then inspected the rest of the bolts and found that most of the bolts were loose. So I removed each bolt, cleared out the hole the bolt went into with compressed air and then applied blue Loctite to the threads before retorquing the bolts back into place.
During the test drive to make sure the transmission was no longer leaking and that my grounds were still working as they should, my power steering system which supplies pressure for both my steering and my hydroboost brakes started getting louder and louder. I decided to go back to the factory brake booster on my TJ because my BEW TDI has a vacuum pump on the back of the cylinder header that would make enough vacuum for the braking system to work properly and I could go back to a VW power steering pump to supply pressure for my power steering box. I did go with a VR6 pump just because it's slightly higher pressure and the closest to the factory TJ power steering pump as well.
With the power steering and braking system working correctly, I started driving my TJ more and discovered that under heavy acceleration my front driveshaft was contacting the tub of my TJ Wrangler from where I had removed the clocking ring on my Rubicon Transfer case. In a little bit of irony, I realized looking at it, I had 3 placements for the mounting bolt with the heavy-duty AW4 transmission mount I had bought and was able to push the transmission closer to my driver's side underneath my TJ. Maybe I didn't need to do the clearancing with sledge hammer but I have more room now so still a win. But by moving the transmission and transfer case over I now created a bind with my front hydraulic motor mounts. I removed my driver's side motor mount plate and redrilled the hole so that the engine, transmission, and transfer case are all now sitting in a neutral position in my TJ with no bind.
And now we get to the cooling system. I started with my cooling system running too cold. My engine barely got to 150° and my transmission was never getting over 125°. For the transmission, the solution was to remove the Ford 6r80 transmission cooler and just run the factory transmission cooler that is in my factory radiator. The cooling system became an almost 3-week long saga of re-routing hoses and trying different thermostats until I drew up, poorly I might add, how the coolant flows in my cooling system. I go in-depth about the cooling in my video so I won't do that here.
However during that I found a mistake I made earlier this year that I can't believe I hadn't caught sooner. I crushed the coolant temperature sensor wiring harness between the AW4 transmission and the adapter plate bolted to the back of my engine. This means my ECU was not seeing an accurate temperature for my coolant. Have I ever checked for an error code on my ECU . . . nope, but I will start doing that regularly going forward.
With all those changes and updates made, I was able to put almost 75 miles on my TJ yesterday with no issues. I am going to swap out the thermostat from the 192° to a 180° because I don't like how hot everything is running and I want to see if I can bring down my temperatures a little more but for the moment everything is working as it should I can continue to put the rest of my TJ back together.
Here is the video if you'd like to watch:
Thanks
Grant
As with all swaps and builds, once you get some seat time on your project you start discovering problems or mistakes that were made during the build. In my case, I had some problems that went back years that I had solved by either replacing, rewiring, or even removing parts to get my TDI Swapped TJ Wrangler running correctly, and I still have a few minor things left to address!
First was a ground issue that I know I've been having for a while now. Turns out when I thought I had grounded the engine and the frame of my Wrangler, I had actually ground the engine and the engine. I put one of my ground wires to the top of the motor mount plate which rested on a hydraulic motor mount. Easy enough to figure out, just moved that ground wire to the bottom of the motor mount which then gave me a grounded frame. I was still having some weird issues with my gauges and even my transmission solenoids however when I turned on my HVAC blower fan. Turns out that at some point in the past 5 years, I put a ground wire to the mounting stud for the blower fan. Changing that ground solved all my issues there.
I then went to address my AW4 transmission leaks. I had two, one was from where the TV cable used to be, and the second I thought was a bad rear main seal on the backside of the transmission where the transfer case bolts to the transmission. Turns out you can not use a clocking ring on a NVG241OR transfercase because the input shaft for that transfer case is so short. Removing the clocking ring rotated the Rubicon transfer case higher which gave me more ground clearance but was making contact with the body. SO I did what any sensible person does, and I took a 2.5lb hammer to make a little bit of extra clearance on the tub of my Wrangler.
While doing all of this, I tried a quick fix to the hole for the TV Cable in my transmission case but ended up dropping a rubber stopper into the transmission pan. This ended up being a major blessing because when I removed the transmission pan I found one of my valvebody bolts in the bottom of the pan. I then inspected the rest of the bolts and found that most of the bolts were loose. So I removed each bolt, cleared out the hole the bolt went into with compressed air and then applied blue Loctite to the threads before retorquing the bolts back into place.
During the test drive to make sure the transmission was no longer leaking and that my grounds were still working as they should, my power steering system which supplies pressure for both my steering and my hydroboost brakes started getting louder and louder. I decided to go back to the factory brake booster on my TJ because my BEW TDI has a vacuum pump on the back of the cylinder header that would make enough vacuum for the braking system to work properly and I could go back to a VW power steering pump to supply pressure for my power steering box. I did go with a VR6 pump just because it's slightly higher pressure and the closest to the factory TJ power steering pump as well.
With the power steering and braking system working correctly, I started driving my TJ more and discovered that under heavy acceleration my front driveshaft was contacting the tub of my TJ Wrangler from where I had removed the clocking ring on my Rubicon Transfer case. In a little bit of irony, I realized looking at it, I had 3 placements for the mounting bolt with the heavy-duty AW4 transmission mount I had bought and was able to push the transmission closer to my driver's side underneath my TJ. Maybe I didn't need to do the clearancing with sledge hammer but I have more room now so still a win. But by moving the transmission and transfer case over I now created a bind with my front hydraulic motor mounts. I removed my driver's side motor mount plate and redrilled the hole so that the engine, transmission, and transfer case are all now sitting in a neutral position in my TJ with no bind.
And now we get to the cooling system. I started with my cooling system running too cold. My engine barely got to 150° and my transmission was never getting over 125°. For the transmission, the solution was to remove the Ford 6r80 transmission cooler and just run the factory transmission cooler that is in my factory radiator. The cooling system became an almost 3-week long saga of re-routing hoses and trying different thermostats until I drew up, poorly I might add, how the coolant flows in my cooling system. I go in-depth about the cooling in my video so I won't do that here.
With all those changes and updates made, I was able to put almost 75 miles on my TJ yesterday with no issues. I am going to swap out the thermostat from the 192° to a 180° because I don't like how hot everything is running and I want to see if I can bring down my temperatures a little more but for the moment everything is working as it should I can continue to put the rest of my TJ back together.
Here is the video if you'd like to watch:
Thanks
Grant
Over the last two months with what little time I had, I swapped out the torque converter I had installed on my AW4 automatic in my TJ Wrangler. I had installed what was supposed to be a stock stall but a heavy-duty torque converter. Ever since I got my swap running I've had issues with it, however because of the nature of this swap, the main one being that I swapped the valve body and accumulator springs in my AW4 from ones from a Toyota A340F, it's been a challenge to figure out what exactly was causing the issues I was seeing. Also apologies for the lack photos, I lost both some footage and an entire album of pictures I took in February.
Here is the video if you'd like to watch:
Ever since I got this swap running last November, I've had some weird issues with the drivetrain. Specifically, the BEW TDI was idling at around 870rpm even though the tune was set for the factory 907 ( I believe that is the factory RPM). Another thing I noticed driving this setup was I had to hold the throttle at pretty much 50% throttle to maintain speed and finally was the RPM drop in Torque Converter Lock Up. It was as if I was shifting into another gear when I went to do a torque converter lock, with RPM drops from 600 to 800 rpm.
This is where I need to give a shout-out to a buddy of mine David for all his help. David has an XJ Cherokee running with an ALH TDI / AW4 combination. Now there are differences BUT I was able to talk to him about what he was seeing when he was driving his XJ and what the torque converter was doing. That information allowed us to determine the only major difference between David's setup and mine was the torque converter we were running.
Thankfully I still had the torque converter that came with my AW4 which I set out to replace. I had hopes that the stock torque converter would be slightly better but I wasn't expecting just how much better it ended up being. Going to the stock torque converter solved pretty much all the issues I was having with my drivetrain. My idle is not right at 905rpm, when I engage torque converter lock up the drop is between 150 ~ 250 rpm and I don't have to use as much throttle to maintain speed going down the road anymore. Oddly enough swapping torque converters also made the drivetrain significantly quieter as well which I wasn't expecting.
Next is addressing an ongoing issue with the cooling system again which thankfully I can say is now fixed, I just need to edit all the videos for that. See you soon.
Thanks
Grant
Here is the video if you'd like to watch:
Ever since I got this swap running last November, I've had some weird issues with the drivetrain. Specifically, the BEW TDI was idling at around 870rpm even though the tune was set for the factory 907 ( I believe that is the factory RPM). Another thing I noticed driving this setup was I had to hold the throttle at pretty much 50% throttle to maintain speed and finally was the RPM drop in Torque Converter Lock Up. It was as if I was shifting into another gear when I went to do a torque converter lock, with RPM drops from 600 to 800 rpm.
This is where I need to give a shout-out to a buddy of mine David for all his help. David has an XJ Cherokee running with an ALH TDI / AW4 combination. Now there are differences BUT I was able to talk to him about what he was seeing when he was driving his XJ and what the torque converter was doing. That information allowed us to determine the only major difference between David's setup and mine was the torque converter we were running.
Thankfully I still had the torque converter that came with my AW4 which I set out to replace. I had hopes that the stock torque converter would be slightly better but I wasn't expecting just how much better it ended up being. Going to the stock torque converter solved pretty much all the issues I was having with my drivetrain. My idle is not right at 905rpm, when I engage torque converter lock up the drop is between 150 ~ 250 rpm and I don't have to use as much throttle to maintain speed going down the road anymore. Oddly enough swapping torque converters also made the drivetrain significantly quieter as well which I wasn't expecting.
Next is addressing an ongoing issue with the cooling system again which thankfully I can say is now fixed, I just need to edit all the videos for that. See you soon.
Thanks
Grant
Hey TJers,
Ever since I got my TJ Wrangler running with a TDI, I've had issues with the cooling system. It always seemed to fluctuate in ways that didn't make sense to me. In trying to figure out why my cooling system wasn't keeping my TDI engine cooled, I simplified my cooling loop and discovered I never had a cooling issue to begin with.
Ever since I got this swap running years ago, heat has been my nemesis on this build. It's either been coolant temps being too hot, EGTs being too hot or transmission temps being too hot. When I switched to the TDI engine from my Kubota engine, both my EGTs and Transmission temps were great, but I've had a constant issue with my coolant slowly creeping up in temperature with it only cooling itself off at idle with the fans on high.
Turns out the issue was a compound issue. When I installed my current turbo, it was water-cooled which complicated my plumbing more than I care to admit. The mistake I made installing the cooling lines for the turbo was I put the temperature sensor for my Coolant Temp Gauge after I coolant return line from the turbo. Meaning I was reading the temperature of the coolant coming out of the turbo instead of what was coming out of the engine.
The first thing I did was remove as many 90° bends as I had in my coolant loop and secondly, I replaced the coolant flange on the back of the BEW TDI. I found a cast aluminum flange on Amazon and modified it so I could install the coolant temperature sensor for my instrument cluster gauge into it. This allowed my gauge to report the same temperature that the TDI ECU was seeing as well.
The combination of moving the temperature sensor to the coolant flange and reducing the number of coolant hoses by around 2 feet seems to have solved all of the coolant issues I thought I was having with my BEW TDI Swap in my TJ Wrangler.
Here is the video if you'd like to watch:
Thanks
Grant
Ever since I got my TJ Wrangler running with a TDI, I've had issues with the cooling system. It always seemed to fluctuate in ways that didn't make sense to me. In trying to figure out why my cooling system wasn't keeping my TDI engine cooled, I simplified my cooling loop and discovered I never had a cooling issue to begin with.
Ever since I got this swap running years ago, heat has been my nemesis on this build. It's either been coolant temps being too hot, EGTs being too hot or transmission temps being too hot. When I switched to the TDI engine from my Kubota engine, both my EGTs and Transmission temps were great, but I've had a constant issue with my coolant slowly creeping up in temperature with it only cooling itself off at idle with the fans on high.
Turns out the issue was a compound issue. When I installed my current turbo, it was water-cooled which complicated my plumbing more than I care to admit. The mistake I made installing the cooling lines for the turbo was I put the temperature sensor for my Coolant Temp Gauge after I coolant return line from the turbo. Meaning I was reading the temperature of the coolant coming out of the turbo instead of what was coming out of the engine.
The first thing I did was remove as many 90° bends as I had in my coolant loop and secondly, I replaced the coolant flange on the back of the BEW TDI. I found a cast aluminum flange on Amazon and modified it so I could install the coolant temperature sensor for my instrument cluster gauge into it. This allowed my gauge to report the same temperature that the TDI ECU was seeing as well.
The combination of moving the temperature sensor to the coolant flange and reducing the number of coolant hoses by around 2 feet seems to have solved all of the coolant issues I thought I was having with my BEW TDI Swap in my TJ Wrangler.
Here is the video if you'd like to watch:
Thanks
Grant
Grant,
Great to see you again and that you figured out your cooling system issue.
Hope you're enjoying the TDI swap.
Rick
Great to see you again and that you figured out your cooling system issue.
Hope you're enjoying the TDI swap.
Rick
Hey Rick,
Thank you! I have been truthfully. I haven't done any wheeling with the TJ but for local runs around town it's been fantastic, even without AC figured out yet!
Thanks
Grant
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Coachgeo
TJ Enthusiast
hey got questions for you on fuel tank and diesel. My rig is using an MB 617. Am sure got ton other questions for you. like your CDI in tank pump use. (though I would only need it to prime system or pumping out tank with water in it.... MB has its own fuel lift pump on the engine.
Hey TJers,
For the past several weeks I've been driving my TJ to test the fuel economy of my swap. I did two tests. The first test was a short highway speed test and the second test took the better part of a month driving only in town until I had gone through ¾ of a tank of diesel in my TJ Wrangler.
The highway test I took place on a road where the speed limit was 55mph. Also for this test, I put my CompuShift controller in configuration B which I have set up for manual mode shifting on my shifter, and my torque converter was locked after the transmission shifted in 2nd gear and was above 28mph. For this stint, I drove 66.1 miles and I put back into my tank 1.979 gallons of diesel fuel. This comes out to 33.4 mpg.
The in-town driving test took the better part of a month. I used my TJ Wrangler exclusive for running errands around town, picking up groceries, going to appointments, etc. On this tank, I left my CompuShift controller on Configuration A, where it shifted my AW4 automatically and the torque converter locked didn't engage until 3rd gear at 51mph. I drove 318.5 miles and put back into my tank 13.04 gallons of diesel fuel. This comes out to around 24.4 mpg.
Overall I'm thrilled with the results! I think my highway mpg when I'm not shifting the AW4 myself and not being very careful about how much I use the skinny pedal is closer to 31 ~ 32 mpg, which I have gotten a few times since making this video, but my in-town mpg seems very accurate. That being said, there are things I will be working on adjusting and tuning to see if I can improve these results.
Here is the video if you'd like to watch:
Let me know what you think!
Thanks
Grant
For the past several weeks I've been driving my TJ to test the fuel economy of my swap. I did two tests. The first test was a short highway speed test and the second test took the better part of a month driving only in town until I had gone through ¾ of a tank of diesel in my TJ Wrangler.
The highway test I took place on a road where the speed limit was 55mph. Also for this test, I put my CompuShift controller in configuration B which I have set up for manual mode shifting on my shifter, and my torque converter was locked after the transmission shifted in 2nd gear and was above 28mph. For this stint, I drove 66.1 miles and I put back into my tank 1.979 gallons of diesel fuel. This comes out to 33.4 mpg.
The in-town driving test took the better part of a month. I used my TJ Wrangler exclusive for running errands around town, picking up groceries, going to appointments, etc. On this tank, I left my CompuShift controller on Configuration A, where it shifted my AW4 automatically and the torque converter locked didn't engage until 3rd gear at 51mph. I drove 318.5 miles and put back into my tank 13.04 gallons of diesel fuel. This comes out to around 24.4 mpg.
Overall I'm thrilled with the results! I think my highway mpg when I'm not shifting the AW4 myself and not being very careful about how much I use the skinny pedal is closer to 31 ~ 32 mpg, which I have gotten a few times since making this video, but my in-town mpg seems very accurate. That being said, there are things I will be working on adjusting and tuning to see if I can improve these results.
Here is the video if you'd like to watch:
Let me know what you think!
Thanks
Grant
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Coachgeo
TJ Enthusiast
did you just skip using any of the Jeep sensor wiring for your gauges? Like what you did with your gauge cluster. Did you hit on your build of that in one of your videos?
I used the sensors that came with the gauges. The only sensor I reused was the CRD Lift Pump fuel level sensor.
I’ve documented it both in videos and this thread but I’d have to go looking for it, I believe it was in 2022.
Coachgeo
TJ Enthusiast
will search them out .. thanks
Pretty incredible how efficient those little diesels can be in the TJs.