Curious: Are there any "mandatory" or "no-brainer" mods for the TJ?

jodomcfrodo said:
To be fair, most vehicles in 4Hi aren't going to do much. I've driven a 3.6 offroad and it doesn't do anything in 4Hi. And while the gearing was way taller in the 3.6 than any 4.0 I've driven, I still wouldn't use 4Hi capability as the benchmark for offroad engine performance. I mean, do you test power on road by 5th or 6th gear pulls?
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It wasn't I that said it had great offroad power. I pointed out that it only seems that way due to the torque multiplier in the t-case low range which to be fair is not a good benchmark for anything especially since there are both 2.72 and 4.0 ratios available. Put 35's on a TJ with even the auto and the 2.72 t-case and it struggles in the rocks. It will do it, it just won't be happy about it.

I would say that both the 4.0 and 3.6 are great motors, but they are meant for different uses. For what most TJ owners do, a 4.0 is nearly perfect. All I need is reliability and some torque. Even though I've never wheeled JV, I would imagine a 4.0 would be just as good as a 3.6 on some of the more technical trails.
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JV is not a place you can imagine.

In terms of racing, a 4.0 sucks and a 3.6 is probably great. But while I would rather have a 3.6 in a race, I'd rather have a 4.0 in Moab. They're both great engines, but just have different strengths. And in terms of weight, yeah its heavy, but would I rather trade weight for reliability? Yes 100% of the time. To put this in perspective, I've taken my TJ with 225k miles on the clock to some of the most remote places in Wyoming that can be reached by car. Never once did I ever have a second thought about whether or not I would make it home. I couldn't say the same thing with a 6.0.
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I do believe that I pointed out that one of the few good things about the 4.0 is reliability. It is a reliable motor. That's about it.
 
mrblaine said:
It wasn't I that said it had great offroad power. I pointed out that it only seems that way due to the torque multiplier in the t-case low range which to be fair is not a good benchmark for anything especially since there are both 2.72 and 4.0 ratios available. Put 35's on a TJ with even the auto and the 2.72 t-case and it struggles in the rocks. It will do it, it just won't be happy about it.

JV is not a place you can imagine.

I do believe that I pointed out that one of the few good things about the 4.0 is reliability. It is a reliable motor. That's about it.
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Without coming across as rude, pointing out that a motor making under 200 horsepower doesn't have a lot of power isn't exactly a ground breaking observation. For what it's used for, a 4.0 is great. For what its used for, a 3.6 is great.

And yeah, gearing is important offroad. If you're trying to run technical trails with a 2.72 low range, you're not gonna have a great time. But most people swap to an atlas, or some other lower geared transfer case, before swapping in an LS2. You don't need more than 200hp for rock crawling. You just need gearing. In the racing you do, you need power to run through the desert at a 100 mph. Obviously you can't do that with gearing.

The way I'm looking at it, with a 93 inch wheelbase and narrow axles, you're not going to be full throttle assaulting anything without the serious possibility of rolling. The only TJ's I've seen smoking all four have full width axles and upwards of 105" WB. TJ's are meant for crawling as they are maneuverable. What do you need for crawling? Reliability, torque, and gearing. A properly set up TJ will have all of that. And a 4.0, within reason, can fill the space for reliability and torque.

"Put 35's on a TJ with even the auto and the 2.72 t-case and it struggles in the rocks."
Let's say you had this issue. Would you swap out the 4.0 and leave the gearing or would you throw in a better t-case? (lets say cost aside)

I'm not saying the 4.0 is perfect, buts its close to it for the situations that the average TJ sees from day to day.
 
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jodomcfrodo said:
And a 4.0, within reason, can fill the space for reliability and torque.

I'm not saying the 4.0 is perfect, buts its close to it for the situations that the average TJ sees from day to day.
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All you are doing is coming up with solutions to overcome the deficiencies the 4.0 has. It's an okay motor that is reliable and far too heavy for what it is. After that, there isn't much special about it. Please, don't throw torque out there again because you've already explained why it doesn't have enough and needs lots of gearing to use what it does have.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the 4.0, I'm just a bit more objective about it than most.
 
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mrblaine said:
All you are doing is coming up with solutions to overcome the deficiencies the 4.0 has. It's an okay motor that is reliable and far too heavy for what it is. After that, there isn't much special about it. Please, don't throw torque out there again because you've already explained why it doesn't have enough and needs lots of gearing to use what it does have.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the 4.0, I'm just a bit more objective about it than most.
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The 4.0 is as old school as it comes, but for a 4x4 low buck enthusiast vehicle. It's perfect, apart from the amount of fuel it uses. Which when you do some figures over a 12 month period, isn't a lot overall.

Most people are constrained with day to day traffic, low speed limits, ease and cost of maintenance. The 4.0L in a TJ does fine in this application.
 
mrblaine said:
All you are doing is coming up with solutions to overcome the deficiencies the 4.0 has. It's an okay motor that is reliable and far too heavy for what it is. After that, there isn't much special about it. Please, don't throw torque out there again because you've already explained why it doesn't have enough and needs lots of gearing to use what it does have.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the 4.0, I'm just a bit more objective about it than most.
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I mean you make up for torque with gearing. Thats pretty obvious. But for a TJ that doesn't need a ton of horsepower, what difference does it make whether you have 200ft lbs of torque and a 60:1 crawl ratio vs 400ft lbs and a 30:1 crawl ratio. It makes literally no difference at all (if you cancel out driveline loss). Why do you need more engine torque with a higher crawl ratio in a TJ? What advantage would you get from that in the typical wheeling that a TJ does? Sure you can hold a gear longer, but that doesn't give you many advantages unless you're already banging off the rev limiter, something a TJ rarely does when rock crawling.

The toyota guys who stack transfer cases have had this figured out for years. Low crawl ratio and a small reliable engine. That combo will get you very far in crawling. Now if you're trying to go up backdoor, then sure, get a bigger motor. But when is the last time you saw a stock wheelbase TJ attempt backdoor?
 
mrblaine said:
All you are doing is coming up with solutions to overcome the deficiencies the 4.0 has. It's an okay motor that is reliable and far too heavy for what it is. After that, there isn't much special about it. Please, don't throw torque out there again because you've already explained why it doesn't have enough and needs lots of gearing to use what it does have.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the 4.0, I'm just a bit more objective about it than most.
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You’re making me want to own a JKU with the 3.6....
 
jodomcfrodo said:
I mean you make up for torque with gearing. Thats pretty obvious. But for a TJ that doesn't need a ton of horsepower, what difference does it make whether you have 200ft lbs of torque and a 60:1 crawl ratio vs 400ft lbs and a 30:1 crawl ratio. It makes literally no difference at all (if you cancel out driveline loss). Why do you need more engine torque with a higher crawl ratio in a TJ? What advantage would you get from that in the typical wheeling that a TJ does? Sure you can hold a gear longer, but that doesn't give you many advantages unless you're already banging off the rev limiter, something a TJ rarely does when rock crawling.

The toyota guys who stack transfer cases have had this figured out for years. Low crawl ratio and a small reliable engine. That combo will get you very far in crawling.
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You're still doing it. I'm not the one that said the 4.0 has great offroad power. I just pointed out that if you put it in 4hi, you quickly see how much power it doesn't have and one shouldn't confuse gearing with power.


Now if you're trying to go up backdoor, then sure, get a bigger motor. But when is the last time you saw a stock wheelbase TJ attempt backdoor?
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Last time was around 2004 when my friend at the time, Garry Hall drove it on 35's with some of the Tinbenders.
 
mrblaine said:
You're still doing it. I'm not the one that said the 4.0 has great offroad power. I just pointed out that if you put it in 4hi, you quickly see how much power it doesn't have and one shouldn't confuse gearing with power.



Last time was around 2004 when my friend at the time, Garry Hall drove it on 35's with some of the Tinbenders.
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Thanks for informing me that an engine that only makes 235ft lbs doesn't have a lot of torque. I'll have to keep that in mind next time I take my TJ rock bouncing.
 
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