GMRS or HAM radio?

[hear]

just keep in mind, a dual band radio (one that can transmit 140-470MHz) will need programmed to do GMRS. They won't come ready to go out of the box. Likely, you'll have to get a programming cable for said radio and program it from your computer. Some can be programmed on the fly from the mic or radio, but is time consuming. I

I just got a UV-5R last week, and as much as I heard what a pain it is to program w/o CHIRP, I had all 22 channels + the 6 MURS channels programmed in under 5 minutes. Maybe other radios are harder, or maybe I'm some sort of radio savant, but having gone through the process I don't know that I would even weigh it as a factor in my next purchase.

 

[pagrey]

but still functional for general trail use, correct?

Yes. Some antennas I've tested out of the box for 2m (ham) are better on MURS. Some for 70cm (ham) are better for GMRS. The whole antenna swr tuning thing always has been blown way out of proportion by CB folks. GMRS has thankfully reduced that chatter.

 

[WSS]

Rick, the ultimate would be a radio that can tx on all the bands, even though you are not able to tx on the amateur bands. At some point, if you get your ticket, you will have what you need. The other aspect is that “in an emergency” all bands are open to you. The Chinese brands are “good” radios, but the Japanese radios are “great”. Yaesu, ICOM, kenwood etc are going to last decades. The wuoxin, baofeng, radioditty, etc will last 5-10 years (I hope). I have a standard tri band in my TJ that has been in 4 vehicles dating to 1996. Standard was bought out by yaesu 20 plus years ago.

The Chinese radios often leak RF too. Will it cook or kill you? Probably not. A smartphone next to your ear probably does more damage.

Bluetooth earbuds seem to a very bad idea in my opinion. The wavelength of Bluetooth is small enough to pass the ear canal right into the hollow space in my head.

 

[pagrey]

The Chinese radios often leak RF too.

I have a spectrum analyzer, send me a leaky radio and I'll send you proof it ain't leaking. The UV-5R has some harmonics on 70cm and that's it. Let's keep it real.

 

[WSS]

I just got a UV-5R last week, and as much as I heard what a pain it is to program w/o CHIRP, I had all 22 channels + the 6 MURS channels programmed in under 5 minutes. Maybe other radios are harder, or maybe I'm some sort of radio savant, but having gone through the process I don't know that I would even weigh it as a factor in my next purchase.

The chirp file you generated is shareable. Makes it even easier for new users. I use chirp a lot. There are some features you can use in the side bar that will enable other less known functions too like tail beeps and things.

We should start a thread for chirp file sharing. I have one somewhere that has a bunch of freqs for KOH.

 

[WSS]

I have a spectrum analyzer, send me a leaky radio and I'll send you proof it ain't leaking. The UV-5R has some harmonics on 70cm and that's it. Let's keep it real.

Pm me your address and I will. I will send you the worst of the bunch. It is real. I’ve had them tested. They are BF-888s radios. The problem has not occurred in the last two bunch’s of 100 that I have bought but was about 1 out if 10 three years ago.

 

[pagrey]

Pm me your address and I will. I will send you the worst of the bunch. It is real. I’ve had them tested. They are BF-888s radios. The problem has not occurred in the last two bunch’s of 100 that I have bought but was about 1 out if 10 three years ago.

Your radios transmit RF other than through the antenna? When you hook up an external antenna the radio itself still emits RF? It is really easy to test but I just want to be sure we are talking about the same thing.

If the problem is fixed on newer radios why would you mention it in a thread asking about buying a radio without mentioning that? And current numbers of none in 100 isn't exactly often.

 

[Zorba]

Random thoughts about the Ham radio: If you're talking about the common 2M and 70 cM dual bander, understand that it won't really transmit any further than a GMRS of equivalent power. You'll need to know what repeaters are in your area of interest (if any), have them programmed into the radio, and *hope* that somebody is actually listening on said repeaters. We have a number of repeaters on these freqs here local to me, and 95% of the time, there's nobody monitoring or talking on any of them. Simplex is dead too.

Or you can go HF. Takes a large antenna (that can be very simple, but would need setting up before use) and some power, but you have a pretty good chance of reaching somebody somewhere. Costly...

 

[pagrey]

Random thoughts about the Ham radio: If you're talking about the common 2M and 70 cM dual bander, understand that it won't really transmit any further than a GMRS of equivalent power.

Doesn't 2M have much better range like this chart shows, 2m at 7 miles and GMRS or 70cm at the same power 3 miles. This is why I like using MURS licence free at around 2m. Much better range than GMRS with a similar handheld and no licence. Obviously for trail communication it doesn't matter but still.

Edit: you can see MURS even using the legal power of 2W has better range than a 5W GMRS handheld

 

[Zorba]

Doesn't 2M have much better range like this chart shows, 2m at 7 miles and GMRS or 70cm at the same power 3 miles. This is why I like using MURS licence free at around 2m. Much better range than GMRS with a similar handheld and no licence. Obviously for trail communication it doesn't matter but still.

View attachment 315910

Edit: you can see MURS even using the legal power of 2W has better range than a 5W GMRS handheld

True dat - and good chart. Still not very far, blah, blah, blah - but "something". Beats a poke in the eye with a mascara brush!

 

[bobthetj03]

How I understand it depends on the wavelength the band is in. VHF tends to punch thru obstructions a bit better than UHF, but UHF will tend to follow the curvature of the earth better. Mostly, unless you are HF or SSB, it's line of sight and how many obstructions you're trying to punch thru.
This past weekend I was doing a SOTA activation on a local to me mountain and made contact with a gent in 2M simplex 80+ miles away as the RF flies. Granted, I was at 4500 ft. and he was at 2000 ft. Same gent had a 70cm repeater at his house. I was able to talk to him clearly in that band as well from the same distance.

 

[SkylinesSuck]

How I understand it depends on the wavelength the band is in. VHF tends to punch thru obstructions a bit better than UHF, but UHF will tend to follow the curvature of the earth better.

Other way around

But the differences are less pronounced in the real world than a lot of people make them out to be until you get down in to HF freqs. I would take that chart with a grain of salt but there is some truth to it.

 

[pagrey]

Chart is totally ballpark like @SkylinesSuck says. There are allot of 2m and 70cm repeaters on the mountains around here so it's easy to test it out. I also regularly use UV-5Rs on the trail and switch between those bands. We're all using shitty HT antennas tuned to the wrong frequencies but it still works fine. I think using what your friends are on is all that really matters.

 

[SkylinesSuck]

That's a cool idea to test like that. Never thought about doing that. Without bothering to look it up, do UV5Rs cover MURS?

 

[pagrey]

That's a cool idea to test like that. Never thought about doing that. Without bothering to look it up, do UV5Rs cover MURS?

Ya, it's what I always use with friends that don't have any licence. We also get to talk to everybody at Walmart so there's that.

 

[Bigmac]

I guess the biggest question I have to figure out as far as I can see is if I really need a HAM radio.

you dont.

 

[Bigmac]

you dont.

and if you think you do, buy a uv5r for 20 bucks until you get an idea of if you like the hobby first. more than enough radio for gmrs trail use.

 

[WSS]

Your radios transmit RF other than through the antenna? When you hook up an external antenna the radio itself still emits RF? It is really easy to test but I just want to be sure we are talking about the same thing.

If the problem is fixed on newer radios why would you mention it in a thread asking about buying a radio without mentioning that? And current numbers of none in 100 isn't exactly often

Not mine, baofeng, wouxun, raddiodity and most other Chinese radios do. If you are able to test any Of those, I suggest you do. They emit RF other than through the antenna. I have had better luck than others since Covid. Some have whole batches that leak, usually around the ptt. The uv5 has had probably the most that I’ve heard of. They are better now but still have there share of problems. I suspect it is a certain factory putting these out or new factories producing them and correcting as they produce. It’s a “China” thing , the way the manufacture. You likely won’t get the same factory making the same radio unless you buy them in groups or lots.

The reason I mention it is because I feel most here are decent folk and deserve to know a potential hazard. Just my thinking, sorry if you feel it needs correction. Please feel free to do so if you think it’s the proper thing to do. All good. Just trying to contribute.

 

[Wildman]

Not mine, baofeng, wouxun, raddiodity and most other Chinese radios do. If you are able to test any Of those, I suggest you do. They emit RF other than through the antenna. I have had better luck than others since Covid. Some have whole batches that leak, usually around the ptt. The uv5 has had probably the most that I’ve heard of. They are better now but still have there share of problems. I suspect it is a certain factory putting these out or new factories producing them and correcting as they produce. It’s a “China” thing , the way the manufacture. You likely won’t get the same factory making the same radio unless you buy them in groups or lots.

The reason I mention it is because I feel most here are decent folk and deserve to know a potential hazard. Just my thinking, sorry if you feel it needs correction. Please feel free to do so if you think it’s the proper thing to do. All good. Just trying to contribute.

I appreciate the information.

And now I have more to think about and research.

 

[WSS]

How I understand it depends on the wavelength the band is in. VHF tends to punch thru obstructions a bit better than UHF, but UHF will tend to follow the curvature of the earth better. Mostly, unless you are HF or SSB, it's line of sight and how many obstructions you're trying to punch thru.
This past weekend I was doing a SOTA activation on a local to me mountain and made contact with a gent in 2M simplex 80+ miles away as the RF flies. Granted, I was at 4500 ft. and he was at 2000 ft. Same gent had a 70cm repeater at his house. I was able to talk to him clearly in that band as well from the same distance.

Elevation and line of sight make a huge difference as you noticed. A buddy of mine has a GMRS (467 in) repeater up in the (local) foothills of Upland and I can open it with 2w on a (Japanese) HT from Corona, about 21 miles away, I lose the repeater completely a mile later as I drop into the valley.

My Grandfather died in 99 (KA6GOU), he lived in Norwalk (LA co.) and at least one short mountain range away from me (Ontario San BD co) Had to use repeaters to talk. I often drove up to idylwild (close to Palm Springs) and had a spot that I could pull over and talk simplex clear as day on 2m or 440. He had an awesome shack. rotators, HF, the works on two towers. I miss those days. He was a code guy. I still have his paddle. I was soooo glad when code was dropped for tech. I could never hear it.