Help Me Fine Tune My Suspension

ShredAZ said:
I know cam bolts are typically frowned upon, but I wonder if adding cam bolts up front will give me enough adjustability to move the axle back a bit. Adjustable control arms aren't really in the cards for the next few years unfortunately.
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My TJ came with cam bolts from the factory, and I was lucky to get 1 degree either way out of them. I bought some adjustable control arms, and some black magic washers now. I am betting you will be disappointed if put cam bolts in.
 
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I've never used them. Some adjustment is better than none, I would imagine.
 
I found this on the web for control arm length. If you are a fabricator, you can build arms fairly cheap and easy...

Please Set Your Arms to These Measurements:
Year Model Lift Size (inches) Lower Front (inches) Lower Rear (inches) Upper Front Upper Rear
1997-2006 Wrangler TJ 4.5 (lowers only) 16 15 3/8
1997-2006 Wrangler TJ 4.5 (lowers and uppers) 16 1/4 16 1/4 15 1/2 14 1/4
 
ShredAZ said:
I know cam bolts are typically frowned upon, but I wonder if adding cam bolts up front will give me enough adjustability to move the axle back a bit. Adjustable control arms aren't really in the cards for the next few years unfortunately.
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Cam bolts are problem on JKs, not so much on TJs.
 
Didn't read through this whole thread but I have a similar interest in making my ride quality better. I bought the new nitro chargers just when they came out (2011ish?) and I've hated them everyday since. They are way too stiff, like jarring make your kidneys bleed stiff! It makes some trails flat out unenjoyable. I will say once I load up my rig up with a ton of gear they do ride smoother however my rig is in no way on the lighter side, big beefy rear swing out bumper with a 35" tire and a front stinger with M8000 winch. I live in Scottsdale if you want to swing by sometime and feel how they are in the seat.

I'm curious about Ranchos and 5100s but has anyone tried the fox shocks that savvy sells? I'm trying to hold off replacing mine in case I outboard my rear or just go to coilovers
 
ac_ said:
My TJ came with cam bolts from the factory, and I was lucky to get 1 degree either way out of them. I bought some adjustable control arms, and some black magic washers now. I am betting you will be disappointed if put cam bolts in.
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I figured that much. I'll probably just hold out until I get adjustable control arms.
mikalcarbine said:
Didn't read through this whole thread but I have a similar interest in making my ride quality better. I bought the new nitro chargers just when they came out (2011ish?) and I've hated them everyday since. They are way too stiff, like jarring make your kidneys bleed stiff! It makes some trails flat out unenjoyable. I will say once I load up my rig up with a ton of gear they do ride smoother however my rig is in no way on the lighter side, big beefy rear swing out bumper with a 35" tire and a front stinger with M8000 winch. I live in Scottsdale if you want to swing by sometime and feel how they are in the seat.

I'm curious about Ranchos and 5100s but has anyone tried the fox shocks that savvy sells? I'm trying to hold off replacing mine in case I outboard my rear or just go to coilovers
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Sounds fun! I'll let you jump in my rig and see how it feels with the RS5000X as well. I am immensely impressed with the ride quality. Don't want to toot my own horn, but it's the softest riding TJ I've been in.
 
Chris said:
You biggest issue with smoothness and harshness will be running E load tires. You should be running C (or D at the most) load rated tires if you want the best ride. Take it from someone who has run both, the E load tires ride like complete crap compared to a C or D.

In addition to that, run them at 26 psi and you'll think your vehicle has totally been transformed (that's what most of us run ours at on-road).

The Fabtech lift is just okay. The worst part of it (and most lifts) is the shocks. Replace them with Rancho RS5000X shocks for the best ride quality you'll find (this is coming from someone who has run almost every off the shelf shock you can run, including the Bilstein 5100s).

As far as control arm lengths, don't be too concerned about that. I have a 4" suspension lift with 1" body lift, and my lower control arms are at stock length believe it or not. This is actually very normal. It's the upper arms (just in the rear) that will change dramatically in length, to compensate for the raised pinion angle.

If there is enough room in terms of clearance, the lower arms can be adjusted outwards. However, the issue with that is that you may run into other issues. For instance, if you move the rear axle back further, your bump stops can become off center, your rear diff can contact your fuel tank, things can bind up with the track bar, etc. You shouldn't be concerned with the actual lengths of the control arms, you should be concerned with how everything works together, whether things are aligned or not (i.e. bump stops), etc. Worrying about actual numbers is senseless.

With option 1, If you have a 4" lift on a TJ, you will NOT be able to remove the transfer case drop. You will get vibrations at 4", guaranteed. Unless you either have a SYE and CV driveshaft combo, or you have an LJ, in which case the longer wheel base lets you get away with a lot more than it would on a TJ. Even with the MML, 4" is still a lot of lift.

Option 2 is the best bet. The Fabtech springs are fine, it's the shocks that suck. Pair the springs with Rancho RS5000X shocks, add a SYE and CV driveshaft, replace the poly bushings with rubber (you'll need adjustable rear upper arms to change the pinion angle), and you'll be good to go.

Add a 1" body lift and 1" MML down the road if you want as well.

And I'll say it again... get rid of those E load tires. Those things aren't meant for a TJ, that's for sure!
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I went 100% rubber on ALL joints, Dropped from a 4.5" to 3" lift and she drives like a Cadillac!! Rubber absorbs a lot of vibrations and suits my driving style!!
 
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rraulston said:
I went 100% rubber on ALL joints, Dropped from a 4.5" to 3" lift and she drives like a Cadillac!! Rubber absorbs a lot of vibrations and suits my driving style!!
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EDIT: Rubber bushings in the control arm joints won't effect ride quality.
 
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jjvw said:
We both think our Jeeps ride well. Are our Johnny Joints harder or softer than rubber bushings?
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I misread. I thought he was talking about putting rubber in place of poly components in places such as the shocks (whatever those bushings are called).

You're right. Rubber in the control arm joints isn't going to make a different in terms of perceivable ride quality. Good shocks and the right tire pressure however would.
 
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Chris said:
I misread. I thought he was talking about putting rubber in place of poly components in places such as the shocks (whatever those bushings are called).

You're right. Rubber in the control arm joints isn't going to make a different in terms of perceivable ride quality. Good shocks and the right tire pressure however would.
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It will make the ride squeak a heck of a lot less and require less maintenance than poly! I'm totally digging my OE style arms over the poly, rigid arms they replaced.
 
ShredAZ said:
It will make the ride squeak a heck of a lot less and require less maintenance than poly! I'm totally digging my OE style arms over the poly, rigid arms they replaced.
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That all depends on what you are comparing. Rubber has its place and certainly can be a good choice over some other options. It also has its limitations. My Johnny Joints don't squeak, FWiW.
 
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ShredAZ said:
It will make the ride squeak a heck of a lot less and require less maintenance than poly! I'm totally digging my OE style arms over the poly, rigid arms they replaced.
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True. I am comparing it to my Johnny Joints, which of course don’t squeak at all.
 
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jjvw said:
That all depends on what you are comparing. Rubber has its place and certainly can be a good choice over some other options. It also has its limitations. My Johnny Joints don't squeak, FWiW.
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Until I can afford JJ's, rubber FTW!
 
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JBighouse said:
I see that you’re not running any rear adjustable track bar/nor rear trackbar relocation bracket.

Is it necessary to run a front adjustable track bar?
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Looking back, the one area I could have done without is the front adjustable track bar. In my particular instance, I would probably have had more clearance by sticking with the OEM track bar.

The amount of offset my rear axle has by not running a relocation bracket or adjustable track bar is literally undetectable. And that's coming from someone who is very OCD.
 
ShredAZ said:
Looking back, the one area I could have done without is the front adjustable track bar. In my particular instance, I would probably have had more clearance by sticking with the OEM track bar.

The amount of offset my rear axle has by not running a relocation bracket or adjustable track bar is literally undetectable. And that's coming from someone who is very OCD.
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nice, thanks for the info. Going to go ahead and purchase that setup, sans the track bars/trackbar bracket.

How does that setup do in Arizona? I’m based in Florida now, so the only thing I have to get over is speed bumps and alligators. I’ll be moving out to Phoenix/Scottsdale next year though, and want to make sure I have a cape able ride
 
JBighouse said:
nice, thanks for the info. Going to go ahead and purchase that setup, sans the track bars/trackbar bracket.

How does that setup do in Arizona? I’m based in Florida now, so the only thing I have to get over is speed bumps and alligators. I’ll be moving out to Phoenix/Scottsdale next year though, and want to make sure I have a cape able ride
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You'll love it out here! Arizona is an offroader's mecca. There is thousands of miles, ghost towns, abandoned mines, etc. to explore.

My setup fits my needs perfectly! My gut tells me my rig could run ~90% of the stuff out here.
I don't know that I'm willing to trust my jeep (or myself) for any serious rock crawling. It's not my type anyways.

Check out Arizona Virtual Jeep Club (AZVJC). They are a massive group here in AZ and organize group rides frequently.
 
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