Help With My Build Plan

[StoneCold]

I have already been spending way to much time reading through forum posts here. One thing I read from @Chris is "I love it when people bring up old posts. My opinion on lifts has changed over the years"........

That got me to thinking I should find out the current opinion of members here. I want some help with my build plan.

I am wanting to do some adventures with the jeep. Use it for hunting, fishing, and some trails. Trails that I think I want to do are ones that are not likely to cause damage to the vehicle or body. Not saying no challenges, just if I don't screw up i should be fine. It currently has a smittybuilt exo rack on it that I am pretty sure will stay. It will carry a canoe or kayaks easy enough. The lakes I go fishing at are often a ways on dirt roads and forest roads. Hunting is on forest roads that are usually not maintained and require a decent 4x4 vehicle. Due to hunting in late fall I may need to tow a small trailer, just for gear, food, etc. Thinking M416 / M100 size at most.

The jeep as it sits is on 32x11.5x15's on 15x8 wheels with a 4" backspace. 3.73 gears. It appears to be all original - no lift with the worn out 32's. Which also means lots of parts are nearing the end of their life cycle!! Budget is obviously a concern as looking at the "to do list" and "want to do list"....makes a guy wish to win the lottery...

I plan on adding a winch to the front, probably a rear bumper that has an integral hitch. Maybe one that I can put a gas can and a water can on along with the spare? Maybe LSD's in the factory diffs? These mods and the trailer are in the future.

Right now it needs some parts replaced, leaks fixed, and so on. Thinking my first order of business is to put some lube lockers on the leaking diff covers and change the fluids. Put a gasket on the leaking oil pan and replace the leaking rear main seal. Check the trans case for fluid level and condition and probably replace it anyway. Soft top is crispy and needs replaced. Ball joints, bushings etc are starting to look shoddy too.....

The suspension seems shot. Original springs and shocks. I think I need to replace these to improve the ride and make it safer / actually drivable. The rear jounce bumpers are only remnants in the cups. I know once this starts you can create a chain reaction - mostly of money leaving the wallet!! I think I want to try and make the jeep capable yet not make such drastic changes I have to change everything.

@Irun and @StG58 have done the H&R sport springs with the rancho or blistein shocks and 31's. A leveling puck and bump stops if needed. Seems like @bobthetj03 added a 1" body lift in a suggestion somewhere. Then wheel the piss out of it. Is this a viable option still? Seems like a low lift makes things easier. If you do the BL too does that mean a motor mount lift too? Or just relocate the fan shroud? Will it handle the extra weight of canoes, winch, gear? Obviously it won't be weighed down all the time. Or just do the 2.5" lift discussed in the "recipe for an affordable but quality 2.5" lift" and make all the changes that go along with it. I am also reading the "Let's talk optimal build for 31" tires thread".....

Any thoughts are welcomed...thanks

SC

 

[LONGJP2]

Any thoughts are welcomed...thanks

Start with a tire size.
Then decide if you're going to do just enough so that the tire can fit; or do it right so that the tire can travel and articulate properly.
Or something in between.

 

[Chris]

I’ll have a longer response for you later this evening. I would agree though that you should start with your final tire size and build around that. Nailing down your tire size is going to be the foundation for the entire build.

 

[StG58]

I have already been spending way to much time reading through forum posts here. One thing I read from @Chris is "I love it when people bring up old posts. My opinion on lifts has changed over the years"........

That got me to thinking I should find out the current opinion of members here. I want some help with my build plan.

I am wanting to do some adventures with the jeep. Use it for hunting, fishing, and some trails. Trails that I think I want to do are ones that are not likely to cause damage to the vehicle or body. Not saying no challenges, just if I don't screw up i should be fine. It currently has a smittybuilt exo rack on it that I am pretty sure will stay. It will carry a canoe or kayaks easy enough. The lakes I go fishing at are often a ways on dirt roads and forest roads. Hunting is on forest roads that are usually not maintained and require a decent 4x4 vehicle. Due to hunting in late fall I may need to tow a small trailer, just for gear, food, etc. Thinking M416 / M100 size at most.

The jeep as it sits is on 32x11.5x15's on 15x8 wheels with a 4" backspace. 3.73 gears. It appears to be all original - no lift with the worn out 32's. Which also means lots of parts are nearing the end of their life cycle!! Budget is obviously a concern as looking at the "to do list" and "want to do list"....makes a guy wish to win the lottery...

I plan on adding a winch to the front, probably a rear bumper that has an integral hitch. Maybe one that I can put a gas can and a water can on along with the spare? Maybe LSD's in the factory diffs? These mods and the trailer are in the future.

Right now it needs some parts replaced, leaks fixed, and so on. Thinking my first order of business is to put some lube lockers on the leaking diff covers and change the fluids. Put a gasket on the leaking oil pan and replace the leaking rear main seal. Check the trans case for fluid level and condition and probably replace it anyway. Soft top is crispy and needs replaced. Ball joints, bushings etc are starting to look shoddy too.....

The suspension seems shot. Original springs and shocks. I think I need to replace these to improve the ride and make it safer / actually drivable. The rear jounce bumpers are only remnants in the cups. I know once this starts you can create a chain reaction - mostly of money leaving the wallet!! I think I want to try and make the jeep capable yet not make such drastic changes I have to change everything.

@Irun and @StG58 have done the H&R sport springs with the rancho or blistein shocks and 31's. A leveling puck and bump stops if needed. Seems like @bobthetj03 added a 1" body lift in a suggestion somewhere. Then wheel the piss out of it. Is this a viable option still? Seems like a low lift makes things easier. If you do the BL too does that mean a motor mount lift too? Or just relocate the fan shroud? Will it handle the extra weight of canoes, winch, gear? Obviously it won't be weighed down all the time. Or just do the 2.5" lift discussed in the "recipe for an affordable but quality 2.5" lift" and make all the changes that go along with it. I am also reading the "Let's talk optimal build for 31" tires thread".....

Any thoughts are welcomed...thanks

SC

Still on 31's, still wheeling the snot out of it. Still no issues.

 

[R3ID05TJ]

Not necessarily pigeon holeing yourself into a final tire size and going all out to get there, there's some things you can install that will still run smaller tires and will set you up for bigger tires in the future.

 

[StoneCold]

Well I'm wondering if the 31's and suspension I was talking about will accomplish my goals. I'd like to keep it simple on 31's and have some fun.....

Is it a fools folly?

 

[Rickyd]

Still on 31's, still wheeling the snot out of it. Still no issues.

I haven't seen any posts from you in a long time!

 

[Rickyd]

Well I'm wondering if the 31's and suspension I was talking about will accomplish my goals. I'd like to keep it simple on 31's and have some fun.....

Is it a fools folly?

31s and a inch or 2 lift is a good combo. Decide on tires though.and then build

 

[macleanflood]

Go for 33s!

I'm happy with the Black Max shocks I put on my 97 TJ and they're affordable!

-Mac

 

[bobthetj03]

Decide on tires you want to wear out and lift to suit, but plan for the part where you decide you need bigger tires. Not saying you will need bigger tires, but you know. I wheeled the snot out of my POS on 31's and a 2" lift.

 

[Mike_H]

A good 31” build will get you a long, long way into the boonies. I don’t see your location, but 31’s are big enough to tackle nearly any public land you’re able to hunt in the Midwest. You can do some well fitting shocks, H&R springs, and a general refresh of the suspension and steering for not a lot of money…I’d guess less than 2k.

If you decide you need bigger tires later, add the body lift and that will easily allow for 32’s and even 33’s if you sacrifice some up travel.

 

[StoneCold]

A good 31” build will get you a long, long way into the boonies. I don’t see your location, but 31’s are big enough to tackle nearly any public land you’re able to hunt in the Midwest. You can do some well fitting shocks, H&R springs, and a general refresh of the suspension and steering for not a lot of money…I’d guess less than 2k.

If you decide you need bigger tires later, add the body lift and that will easily allow for 32’s and even 33’s if you sacrifice some up travel.

I updated my profile. I'm basically dead center in the state of Colorado "elevation 8300 feet". Pretty remote too, nearest auto parts store is 45 minutes one way. My hunting and fishing are usually at high elevation lakes and public land. Some of the forest roads get a bit dicey getting up there.

I've still been reading on it. It looks like the 31's will work based on the success of others. Like you say, the suspension refresh and whatnot won't be too expensive if I stay low. Leaves the door open for bigger if I need it too.

As for picking a tire....well I've had multiple sets of KO2's in the past. Generally I don't find they have very good traction for me - especially in ice and snow. The toyo open country were replaced before I wore them out. Currently have KO2's on my truck, and Falken WP at/3's on a 4 runner. The falkens have been good. I think for the jeep I would like as close to a "true" 31" tire as I can. I wouldn't mind trying a mud terrain on it...say the Goodyear Wrangler MT/R with kevlar. Suggestions welcomed also.

 

[JMT]

I have already been spending way to much time reading through forum posts here. One thing I read from @Chris is "I love it when people bring up old posts. My opinion on lifts has changed over the years"........

That got me to thinking I should find out the current opinion of members here. I want some help with my build plan.

I am wanting to do some adventures with the jeep. Use it for hunting, fishing, and some trails. Trails that I think I want to do are ones that are not likely to cause damage to the vehicle or body. Not saying no challenges, just if I don't screw up i should be fine. It currently has a smittybuilt exo rack on it that I am pretty sure will stay. It will carry a canoe or kayaks easy enough. The lakes I go fishing at are often a ways on dirt roads and forest roads. Hunting is on forest roads that are usually not maintained and require a decent 4x4 vehicle. Due to hunting in late fall I may need to tow a small trailer, just for gear, food, etc. Thinking M416 / M100 size at most.

The jeep as it sits is on 32x11.5x15's on 15x8 wheels with a 4" backspace. 3.73 gears. It appears to be all original - no lift with the worn out 32's. Which also means lots of parts are nearing the end of their life cycle!! Budget is obviously a concern as looking at the "to do list" and "want to do list"....makes a guy wish to win the lottery...

I plan on adding a winch to the front, probably a rear bumper that has an integral hitch. Maybe one that I can put a gas can and a water can on along with the spare? Maybe LSD's in the factory diffs? These mods and the trailer are in the future.

Right now it needs some parts replaced, leaks fixed, and so on. Thinking my first order of business is to put some lube lockers on the leaking diff covers and change the fluids. Put a gasket on the leaking oil pan and replace the leaking rear main seal. Check the trans case for fluid level and condition and probably replace it anyway. Soft top is crispy and needs replaced. Ball joints, bushings etc are starting to look shoddy too.....

The suspension seems shot. Original springs and shocks. I think I need to replace these to improve the ride and make it safer / actually drivable. The rear jounce bumpers are only remnants in the cups. I know once this starts you can create a chain reaction - mostly of money leaving the wallet!! I think I want to try and make the jeep capable yet not make such drastic changes I have to change everything.

@Irun and @StG58 have done the H&R sport springs with the rancho or blistein shocks and 31's. A leveling puck and bump stops if needed. Seems like @bobthetj03 added a 1" body lift in a suggestion somewhere. Then wheel the piss out of it. Is this a viable option still? Seems like a low lift makes things easier. If you do the BL too does that mean a motor mount lift too? Or just relocate the fan shroud? Will it handle the extra weight of canoes, winch, gear? Obviously it won't be weighed down all the time. Or just do the 2.5" lift discussed in the "recipe for an affordable but quality 2.5" lift" and make all the changes that go along with it. I am also reading the "Let's talk optimal build for 31" tires thread".....

Any thoughts are welcomed...thanks

SC

Either the 1” +1” or the 2.5” with 31’s is a viable solution. Beware, dropping from 32’s to 31’s will look small. Your eye is accustomed to that bigger tire, and you might not like it at first.

You can do a BL without a MML if you move the shroud.

Lockers are better than Limited Slip.

These little rigs are really capable stock. As far as tires, an AT will be better in a few inches of snow or ice. An MT is better in deep stuff. I don’t think the GY Wrangler MT/R would be a good choice for winter weather. If you get an MT you might get the center tread siped.

 

[Chris]

If you aren't planning to do any extreme rock crawling (which it sounds like you aren't) I'd probably just go with a setup like this one:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/a-recipe-for-an-affordable-but-quality-2-5-lift.41687/

There's no need for anything larger than 33s (though I'd probably stick with 31s) for your intended use. That's not to say you can't build it for 35s, but you'll find that becomes wildly expensive if you want to do it right and use quality parts.

I'd also say that if you want to build it right and also add resale value to your TJ at the same time, use quality parts. In other words, avoid cheap brands such as EAG, Smittybilt, etc.

One thing that new TJ owners also overlook is that you should try to build your TJ as light as possible. This is another reason to avoid cheap parts such as Smittybilt and EAG. They're made of heavy steel that weighs significantly more than quality aluminum bumpers and armor from the likes of Savvy, UCF, etc.

Keep that in mind because going with aluminum parts versus steel is a much wiser decision. The aluminum won't rust in the same way the steel parts do, not to mention you will literally notice how much lighter your TJ is when it comes to performance. We're talking hundreds of pounds of saved weight. You'll feel this in your butt dyno I assure you.

 

[Mike_H]

I updated my profile. I'm basically dead center in the state of Colorado "elevation 8300 feet". Pretty remote too, nearest auto parts store is 45 minutes one way. My hunting and fishing are usually at high elevation lakes and public land. Some of the forest roads get a bit dicey getting up there.

I've still been reading on it. It looks like the 31's will work based on the success of others. Like you say, the suspension refresh and whatnot won't be too expensive if I stay low. Leaves the door open for bigger if I need it too.

As for picking a tire....well I've had multiple sets of KO2's in the past. Generally I don't find they have very good traction for me - especially in ice and snow. The toyo open country were replaced before I wore them out. Currently have KO2's on my truck, and Falken WP at/3's on a 4 runner. The falkens have been good. I think for the jeep I would like as close to a "true" 31" tire as I can. I wouldn't mind trying a mud terrain on it...say the Goodyear Wrangler MT/R with kevlar. Suggestions welcomed also.

The Colorado crew seems to really like the MT/R's. I personally would look into one of the newer "hybrid" tires. I think the Duratrac is a hybrid...but they have a reputation for sidewall punctures. Central Co will def be more rocky than what I'm used to, in the Great Lakes basin, which is basically a mix of beach sand and clay, with the only rocks being in the natural gravel veins we have.

 

[mrblaine]

I haven't seen any posts from you in a long time!

Well, he is on 31's so he gets there, it just takes a lot longer.

 

[mrblaine]

I think for the jeep I would like as close to a "true" 31" tire as I can.

And to think, we were so close to being friends.

 

[StoneCold]

If you aren't planning to do any extreme rock crawling (which it sounds like you aren't) I'd probably just go with a setup like this one:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/a-recipe-for-an-affordable-but-quality-2-5-lift.41687/

There's no need for anything larger than 33s (though I'd probably stick with 31s) for your intended use. That's not to say you can't build it for 35s, but you'll find that becomes wildly expensive if you want to do it right and use quality parts.

I'd also say that if you want to build it right and also add resale value to your TJ at the same time, use quality parts. In other words, avoid cheap brands such as EAG, Smittybilt, etc.

One thing that new TJ owners also overlook is that you should try to build your TJ as light as possible. This is another reason to avoid cheap parts such as Smittybilt and EAG. They're made of heavy steel that weighs significantly more than quality aluminum bumpers and armor from the likes of Savvy, UCF, etc.

Keep that in mind because going with aluminum parts versus steel is a much wiser decision. The aluminum won't rust in the same way the steel parts do, not to mention you will literally notice how much lighter your TJ is when it comes to performance. We're talking hundreds of pounds of saved weight. You'll feel this in your butt dyno I assure you.

I am not planning on rock crawling. I have read that thread at least 3 times now...LOL!

There are a lot of contradictions I see in it though. Like the end goal should be adjustable track bars, adjustable control arms, new sway bar connections, sye, and double cardon driveshaft. Doing a tummy tuck requires a body lift, a motor mount lift, which also adds transfer case cable shifter, moving the tranny shifter, new trans skid.....then there is the whole vibes may or may not be present.

Doesn't really seem to be cost effective or save any weight?? Am I missing something ??? Not trying to argue or say my mind is set. I just want a good plan from the start. I usually just start doing things and figure out what I screwed up by doing that and now I need to fix.....

Mine came with the smitty rack so I want to at least try it with my canoe. I know it is a heavy one. But "free" is the best price!

I definitely plan on going with quality parts. What attracted me to @StG58 's build was he kept it simple and light. It didn't seem like he "had to" change all kinds of stuff to make it work. I have the 4.0 instead of the 4 cyclinder too. I see his "future modification plan" in his profile includes lots of the more expensive things though..

It seems like 31's is the max for "stock configuration" - I could be wrong. So can I optimize 31's for off road without doing all of those things in the "recipe" ? Still be able to haul some gear maybe tow a light trailer? Still be reasonable on road?

I seem to remember someone saying stock with 31's and a lunchbox locker up front would get you a lot of places. Seems that would make driving in the snow less drama with an open rear and lunchbox up front. Until you put it in 4 wheel drive? Maybe it was @Jerry Bransford who said in "stock" form with detroit lockers front and rear it would be able to get almost anywhere you had enough clearance for. I don't remember.

This is why there are always so many build questions...there are always so many answers to the same question and things you won't know until it is installed......it does get frustrating.

Thanks all! I am listening and reading...maybe too much!! HA!

 

[Chris]

Like the end goal should be adjustable track bars, adjustable control arms, new sway bar connections, sye, and double cardon driveshaft. Doing a tummy tuck requires a body lift, a motor mount lift, which also adds transfer case cable shifter, moving the tranny shifter, new trans skid.....then there is the whole vibes may or may not be present.

You don't need to do it all at once. Get some 31s and a small lift. At some point you can get some adjustable control arms and a 1.25" body lift. Then you throw on the tummy tuck and adjustable track bars. Remember that all you need to run 31s is a very small lift. Actually you don't even need a lift at all, just get a 1.25" body lift which will set you up for the tummy tuck down the road and you'll fit the 31s just fine.

Doesn't really seem to be cost effective or save any weight?? Am I missing something ??? Not trying to argue or say my mind is set. I just want a good plan from the start. I usually just start doing things and figure out what I screwed up by doing that and now I need to fix.....

I'd argue that one of the most important things you can do with any TJ build is to keep it lightweight. Is it cost effective? Maybe not, but this isn't a cost effective hobby

Mine came with the smitty rack so I want to at least try it with my canoe. I know it is a heavy one. But "free" is the best price!

More power to you!

I definitely plan on going with quality parts. What attracted me to @StG58 's build was he kept it simple and light. It didn't seem like he "had to" change all kinds of stuff to make it work. I have the 4.0 instead of the 4 cyclinder too. I see his "future modification plan" in his profile includes lots of the more expensive things though..

He has to keep it especially simple and light since he has a 2.5 4-cylinder. The 4.0 is terrible enough as it is once you start adding bigger tires and more weight. The 4-cylinder is a different story altogether.

It seems like 31's is the max for "stock configuration" - I could be wrong. So can I optimize 31's for off road without doing all of those things in the "recipe" ? Still be able to haul some gear maybe tow a light trailer? Still be reasonable on road?

Yes, you can do all this with 31s and all you'll need is that 1.25" body lift which will cost you less than $200 and take 1 hour to install.

I seem to remember someone saying stock with 31's and a lunchbox locker up front would get you a lot of places. Seems that would make driving in the snow less drama with an open rear and lunchbox up front. Until you put it in 4 wheel drive? Maybe it was @Jerry Bransford who said in "stock" form with detroit lockers front and rear it would be able to get almost anywhere you had enough clearance for. I don't remember.

I prefer auto-lockers (i.e. ARB or Eaton E-Lockers). I like to be able to turn them on-and-off whenever I need. But yes, you could get by just fine with a lunchbox locker.

This is why there are always so many build questions...there are always so many answers to the same question and things you won't know until it is installed......it does get frustrating.

You're making it more complicated than it has to be, trust me. We've all been here so don't feel bad.

Pick a tire size, try to keep it as light as possible, and if you aren't doing any rock crawling then you don't need to spend a lot of time or money thinking about this I assure you.

 

[Rickyd]

You don't need to do it all at once. Get some 31s and a small lift. At some point you can get some adjustable control arms and a 1.25" body lift. Then you throw on the tummy tuck and adjustable track bars. Remember that all you need to run 31s is a very small lift. Actually you don't even need a lift at all, just get a 1.25" body lift which will set you up for the tummy tuck down the road and you'll fit the 31s just fine.



I'd argue that one of the most important things you can do with any TJ build is to keep it lightweight. Is it cost effective? Maybe not, but this isn't a cost effective hobby



More power to you!



He has to keep it especially simple and light since he has a 2.5 4-cylinder. The 4.0 is terrible enough as it is once you start adding bigger tires and more weight. The 4-cylinder is a different story altogether.



Yes, you can do all this with 31s and all you'll need is that 1.25" body lift which will cost you less than $200 and take 1 hour to install.



I prefer auto-lockers (i.e. ARB or Eaton E-Lockers). I like to be able to turn them on-and-off whenever I need. But yes, you could get by just fine with a lunchbox locker.



You're making it more complicated than it has to be, trust me. We've all been here so don't feel bad.

Pick a tire size, try to keep it as light as possible, and if you aren't doing any rock crawling then you don't need to spend a lot of time or money thinking about this I assure you.

Agree with everything you say. But I'd probably go for 1-2" coil spacers(or coils) and longer shocks to get a lil travel and clearance underneath.

@StoneCold 31s and a small lift is a good start.

Then spend time learning about the pros and cons of each mod and combination appropriate for a given tire size. Then decide what compromises work for you. Reading build threads,researching and maybe joining a 4x4 club or other ways to see tjs in action will help.