Hub Centric Wheel Questions

My questions from post 1 -

Is there a procedure to follow when installing lug centric wheels to insure that they center themselves? YES

Are any of you using hub centric rings and have they helped the drivieability of your Jeep. YES

Should I be thinking hub centric wheels? UNDECIDED I understand stock wheels are hub centric. Does this put me in the market for Moab wheels? NO - not enough backspacing for 33x12.5 Any recommendations for hub centric wheels? YES - Procomp seems to be the cheapest Is 3.5 - 4" backspacing what I should buy? YES

Why does it seem to be a voodoo art to get a jeep to drive like it is supposed to? :) Still Searching :)

Thanks to all for your input.
 
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I run factory MOAB wheels with 315/75R16 (~35×12.4R16) I used a 1.25" Spidertrax spacer, which is hub centric on both ends. So backspacing was solved by the use of the spacer. It is a good possibility, but I wouldn't go out of my way to do it if I were you
 
I myself can not understand why anyone would buy a lug centric wheel. . . .

. . . Again I ask what other piece of rotating assembly gets attached without a centered hub in the design?
Flywheel? Harmonic balancer. . . ?

Jeep used lug centric wheels for every CJ from 1941 through the 1986 model year. It wasn't until Chrysler went with unit bearings that OEM Jeep wheels became hub centric. It isn't an issue if the lug nuts are tightened properly.

Hub centric wheels make installation relatively idiot proof, but the real solution is not to be an idiot rather than cast blame on lug centric wheels.
 
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You know, you are absolutely right. Now name the shop that will go and tighten the wheel one quarter turn of the lugnuts at a time. Name the person who wants to do that. Why would somebody choose to do that instead of getting rims (or spacers) that don't require you to do so? Hell, hardly anyone can be bothered to shift a transmission or have to turn a crank to open a window. Or even check the air pressure in their tires.
 
You know, you are absolutely right. Now name the shop that will go and tighten the wheel one quarter turn of the lugnuts at a time. Name the person who wants to do that?
That's bullshit and you know it or you should. Properly installing lug centric wheels takes no significant extra time. You have a weird baseless and unwarranted thing against lug centric wheels you should figure out how to get over.
 
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Here is my story. I bought my 2004 Wrangler Rubicon ~2 1/2 years ago. It came with American Racing Wheels and 33x12.5r15 tires. The tires were BFG Mud Terrain. The tires were well worn and noisy. I changed them a few months later to some Mastercraft tires. My Jeep drove OK for 10,000 miles, and then I started getting the wobbles. I fixed some things (changed trac bars and pittman arm - Jeep came with a skyjacker lift kit) but the wobble didn't get much better. When I ran out of talent, I took the Jeep to the local 4x4 guy. He found 2 of the tires out of round. I had the tires trued up, and things were OK for a spell. When the wobbles started again about 5000 miles later, I decided I needed different tires. I bought BFG All-Terrian K02s. It was really hard getting the Jeep to run smoothly with the new tires. One of them took a lot of weight to balance. One of them had to be trued. Knowing what I know now, I'm thinking my wheels got put on the hubs without them being centered. The whole process was a pain in the ass. I decided to upgrade my Jeep, and added Currie control arms and Currie steering. The Jeep drove great after that.

Last July, I was towing my Jeep behind my RV and the steering locked ~10° to the right. I didn't realize this until I ruined the passenger front tire. I put my spare on, and continued on my trip. When I got to Colorado, I noticed a slight bounce/wobble at 50 mph. I took the Jeep to a tire shop to have them check the balance on the former spare. The tire tech said whoever balanced it didn't know how (seems like they always say that). His balancing machine indicated it was going to take 2 pounds to dynamically balance the tire and wheel (I was looking over his shoulder). He didn't think that was a good idea to use that much weight and I agreed. We statically balanced the tire, and I took a test drive. The bounce was worse. I knew my rear tires were a matched set (put on at the same time), and had been balanced, so we moved the back tires to the front. The test drive found the bounce was even worse. Looking back on the experience, I feel like the tire tech was not getting the wheels centered on the hubs. I left the Jeep there for them to work on it. When I went back a few hours later, the Jeep was driving good except for the slightest wobble at 50 mph. I decided I could live with this until i got home. When I got home, I bought 2 new tires for the back (I used the best take-off for my spare). I was still dealing with a little bit of a bounce at 50. I was concerned that the towing problem might have damaged the u-joint or hub bearing, so I pulled the front wheels off to check the axle components. All was well. When I put the wheels and tires back on, and went for a test drive, the bounce was worse than ever. Damn! I suspected I had a tire out of round again, and the bounce got worse when I put the wheel/tire on in a different orientation that what it was before I started my work. I went to my tire truing guy again. He is the one who told me one of the front wheels was off center. He centered the wheel and my Jeep drives like a Cadillac again.

Conclusions: 1. I didn't know that lug centric wheels could be installed so that they were off-center. Some of the tire jockeys that worked on my Jeep didn't know that either. 2. I am convinced the problems that i thought were caused by bad tires were really about how the wheels were installed. 3. Armed with all this new knowledge, I do not expect to have tire/tire bounce/tire out of round problems again.
 
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I've had 3 sets of wheels, and three different tires on my Jeep. Steel D windows with some new, but shitty Big O MT's, Ion Alloy 171's with Hankook MT's and now Mammoth Boulder's with Cooper STT Pro's. Only the Mammoth wheels are hub centric, the other two were not. The Jeep has always been completely smooth and free of any vibrations, at any speed up to 80mph. I'd say hub centric wheels are not necessary, but the correct lug nuts are.

Oh and BTW, when I remove tires, I reinstall them just like any other tire, no special care is given in tightening the lug nuts.
 
That's bullshit and you know it or you should. Properly installing lug centric wheels takes no significant extra time. You have a weird baseless and unwarranted thing against lug centric wheels you should figure out how to get over.
Look Jerry,I respect the hell out of you and your truly vast knowledge. And I mean that. You have forgotten more about a TJ than most will ever know.
BUT I have had or personally know of well over a dozen vehicles that have gone through balance after rebalance after tire change after rotations that were cured miraculously when hub centric rims were finally used. Your experience is obviously different. But this forum is filled with folks re-re-rebalancing tires chasing vibe problems with little suscess.
And seriously, when have you seen a shop mount a wheel properly? I broke a lug wrench, 3/8 ratchet, 1/2 ratchet, and bent a 1/2 breaker bar by having to put a 4 foot cheater bar on it and jump, not bounce, JUMP on the end with other holding everything in place to break lugnuts free. ALL OF THEM! And I ain't no ballerina. They had to have used a 3/4 impact and left it on and took a smoke break to get them so tight. I have no idea how nothing broke on the vehicle.
Different where you are? Hopefully. But I have NEVER seen a shop put a torque wrench on a lug except AFTER the impact stops tightening, so the customer sees the pretend "click".
Most balancing machines lock on the center of the rim, not on the lug holes. That means the tire is balanced to the hub. Not the lugs. That alone can cause a problem when the tire gets on the vehicle with a lug centric mounting.
And that is NO bullshit. And I DO know it.
 
It's clear you believe lug-centric wheels are the work of the devil and no matter what, you have convinced yourself of that and won't believe otherwise so let's just agree to disagree on all of that.