Introduction - EV time for TJs

[4x4 EVC]

So if I'm understanding correctly, you basically just don't want the motor completely submerged under water, and avoid anything that could compromise the integrity of the battery box and it's ability to stay dry? Don't get me wrong.... I don't intend to strap on scuba gear and try to cross a lake by driving across the bottom with 8+ feet of water above my head submarine style.

Just wondering about how things would play out if you accidentally slid into deep water or drove into an area of water that is deeper than expected and end up with water halfway up the windshield.

Such things can obviously end horribly for an ICE equipped vehicle, but if you play your cards right and the stars align, draining the engine and refilling with fresh oil could be all that's needed for the engine. Just didn't know if that would be the kiss of death for the EV motor.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer all of the questions thrown your way. Not many would be willing. It's especially useful in this instance with something so new and unknown to so many and I'm learning quite a bit.

Yeah, I think bad things happen to all submerged vehicles, for sure, almost always, at least every time any one of my (ICE) Jeeps went swimming.

We water test the Back Battery Box, so far, so good.

The motor's pretty robust but, the way the safety works, when the AC (DC storage in the battery, the inverter converts to AC to drive the motor) has ANY anomalies, it kicks a fault and opens the main contactors (open = off) and the motor stops rotating. The manufacture will suggest replacing the bearings (about $85 each).

As for the battery modules getting wet, same kind of thing: the HV short ALWAYS opens the main contactor which stops any damage to other components, and isolates the HV inside their respective boxes. 12v battery still stays on and works which should trigger the leak detector so the driver will know what would be probably evident, Jeeps don't float, much.

I don't know about you, but every time I ever got water into a cylinder, I always ended up having to rebuild the motor.

You know what also, these types of questions drive my mind, make me try to walk through all the 'what ifs' and 'worst case scenarios' '. Everything else is water safe / sealed unless you are fully submerged, then, well, doubt the outcome would be pretty, ICE or EV.

We use only Deutsch or similar water tight connectors for the small stuff and Aptiv or Amphenol likewise water tight connectors for the HV stuff.

Killing the juice flow instantly on any HV fault should stop any electric damage to any parts. The dry out, that would interesting. Don't know. The mind tumbles....

- Patrick

 

[4x4 EVC]

One thing I forgot to mention on this subject of water intrusion into Back Battery Box; I was also thinking of adding an inexpensive camera in the box, I know it's stupid and I'm overthinking a problem that doesn't require a solution but....

I could add it such that with a flip of a switch, it would activate it, use Bluetooth to let you see inside via your phone and, I don't know, stare at all those electrons vibrating their asses off.

Like I said, the mind tumbles.

- Patrick

 

[Zorba]

One thing I forgot to mention on this subject of water intrusion into Back Battery Box; I was also thinking of adding an inexpensive camera in the box, I know it's stupid and I'm overthinking a problem that doesn't require a solution but....

I could add it such that with a flip of a switch, it would activate it, use Bluetooth to let you see inside via your phone and, I don't know, stare at all those electrons vibrating their asses off.

Like I said, the mind tumbles.

- Patrick

Make it viewable on something besides a damn PHOOOOOONNE, and it might a good thing!

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Make it viewable on something besides a damn PHOOOOOONNE, and it might a good thing!

Fuuuu, ok I'll bite.... What do you suggest?

 

[jjvw]

Fuuuu, ok I'll bite.... What do you suggest?

A personal town crier.

 

[cliffish]

Fuuuu, ok I'll bite.... What do you suggest?

 

[macleanflood]

 

[Zorba]

Fuuuu, ok I'll bite.... What do you suggest?

Oh, how about a friggin COMPUTER? Or hell, even that backup screen that our Benevolent OverLords forces us to have - make it useful for something.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Oh, how about a friggin COMPUTER? Or hell, even that backup screen that our Benevolent OverLords forces us to have - make it useful for something.

Sometimes I feel like you can't possibly be serious. No one on earth wants to carry a computer around with them or half a dozen different single-purpose devices to do things that a single 5" display can do perfectly well. I get that a phone isn't the best tool for everything and I agree with you that they're overpriced and on the deleterious affects it's had on society at large (though most of them probably fall more on social media)....but it is the best tool for some things. It's not a good key fob, word processor, spreadsheet editor or flashlight but it's a better GPS than any GPS I've ever had, it's a better point and shoot camera than I've ever had, it's a better OBD2 scanner than I've ever had, and cost less than what I would have paid for all of those devices individually if they worked even as well at their purpose as the phone does.

I think what you hate is the channel it provided to allow billionaires to manipulate and enshittify, and you're blaming the tool instead of the people using it for the wrong purposes and get a weird kick out of being deliberately obtuse and obstinate about it.

 

[Zorba]

Sometimes I feel like you can't possibly be serious. No one on earth wants to carry a computer around with them or half a dozen different single-purpose devices to do things that a single 5" display can do perfectly well. I get that a phone isn't the best tool for everything and I agree with you that they're overpriced and on the deleterious affects it's had on society at large (though most of them probably fall more on social media)....but it is the best tool for some things. It's not a good key fob, word processor, spreadsheet editor or flashlight but it's a better GPS than any GPS I've ever had, it's a better point and shoot camera than I've ever had, it's a better OBD2 scanner than I've ever had, and cost less than what I would have paid for all of those devices individually if they worked even as well at their purpose as the phone does.

I think what you hate is the channel it provided to allow billionaires to manipulate and enshittify, and you're blaming the tool instead of the people using it for the wrong purposes and get a weird kick out of being deliberately obtuse and obstinate about it.

Let's see here. "Better GPS". Nope. "Better camera". Nope - yes they can take good pix, but at their considerable price they should! And you still have to hold the balky thing - nver mind that they've destroyed photography and vidography. 5 inch display - yea - that's a HUGE part of the problem with the thing (no pun intended). I can see using a tablet for something like this - you're still stuck with the braindead OS that spies on you, and the crippled UI, but at least the display is of a marginally useful size and you have some control over what gets telemetered over the Internet. I really have yet to see how a PHOOOOOONNE is the "best" tool for anything, of the many things it does - badly. If I need to interface something with a screen into my Jeep - or whatever - it had better have a damn decent screen, decent OS, and a damn keyboard - read: Laptop. Or a long USB cable or WiFi connection gets me to a desktop with multiple large screens that make the job easy to deal with - but a laptop will do if I really need to do something in the field. Hell, even my in-Jeep GPS will attach to my WiFi and update itself.

I (now) hate the damn things because of all the damage they have done to the world. Yea, it started as "its a stupid, overpriced luxury/toy, nobody with half a brain would want to deal with this crap", but it has morphed into "This thing is the at or near the core of everything that is wrong with the world and society." Of course what REALLY rusts my finger cymbals is the EXPECTATION that I have one of the fucking things. Much like a so-called "JoyMaker" in an old and forgettable SF novel from the 1960s, its cost is considerable and if you don't pay, pay, pay, pay for the "privilege" of having this thing, you are a second class citizen.

People's slavish devotion to these things is sickening, and apologists SWARM out of the woodwork anytime anyone DARES to figuratively say "The emperor has no clothes". All for something that really SUCKS on multiple levels. As I've said before, my trip to Egypt really rammed home how terrible these things are and the damage they are doing to the world. When you see a culture that has not YET been completely destroyed by these fucking devices from Hell, it becomes painfully obvious. Subsequent research has shown me that my dislike was hitherto rather simple minded.

So yes, I am "serious". I'm about as serious as a fucking heart attack or cancer. These things are the #1 vector for sheer evil in our society, in countless ways. There is plenty of discussion and books on the subject for those who aren't too addled to investigate. Most people actually know this, or at least a good part of it - but not enough people care. I say its all about the PHOOOOOONNE, but it really is all about THE MACHINE.

A certain apologist of my acquaintance on another forum - he supposedly works "high up" in the TelCo industry - just posted about how LG has just come out with some kind of automotive telematics unit with something like 12 5G antennas. Oh this is just so WONDERFUL, cars will be able to move ENORMOUS amounts of data. Yea, and TelCos - the robber barons of our time - will make a mint off of this bullshit. Yea, he's an apologist for all this crap, he works in the industry - of course he is! Root cause: Smartphone tech. And on and on and on.

 

[macleanflood]

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Cherry Picking. Moving the Goalposts. Moving the Goalposts. Appeal to Cost - False Equivalence! Appeal to Inconvenience - Slippery Slope. Appeal to Ridicule - False Dilemma (no pun intended). False Compromise - Poisoning the Well, and Hasty Generalization, but at least Anecdotal Evidence. Sweeping Generalization, of the many things it does - Hasty Generalization. False Dilemma - Appeal to Personal Preference. False Dilemma - but Appeal to Personal Preference. Anecdotal Evidence.
Causal Oversimplification. Appeal to Ridicule, but it has morphed into "Causal Oversimplification." Appeal to Emotion. False Analogy, Appeal to Cost and False Dichotomy.
Hasty Generalization, and Poisoning the Well anytime anyone DARES to figuratively say "Appeal to Ridicule". Sweeping Generalization. As I've said before, Anecdotal Evidence. Hasty Generalization, it becomes painfully obvious. Confirmation Bias.
So yes, Appeal to Conviction. Appeal to Emotion. Causal Oversimplification. Appeal to Vague Authority. Bandwagon Fallacy - but Appeal to Popular Belief. Causal Oversimplification.
A certain Ad Hominem - Appeal to Questionable Authority - just posted about how Anecdotal Evidence. Appeal to Ridicule. Yea, and Appeal to Motive - Poisoning the Well. Yea, Circumstantial Ad Hominem - of course he is! Causal Oversimplification. Proof by Assertion.

Fify.

 

[jjvw]

Fify.

He does not care. And he will never care.

 

[Zorba]

He does not care. And he will never care.

You are correct. I don't care about apologetics for the PHOOOOOONNE. People are free to do what they will - so you do you. Just don't ask me to participate. Talked to a service guy just today - he absolutely HATES his smartphone. I gave him alternatives, he seemed interested. He's hardly alone.

 

[jjvw]

You are correct. I don't care about apologetics for the PHOOOOOONNE. People are free to do what they will - so you do you. Just don't ask me to participate. Talked to a service guy just today - he absolutely HATES his smartphone. I gave him alternatives, he seemed interested. He's hardly alone.

Since you don't care so very much, you should quit bringing it up all the time.

 

[Zorba]

Since you don't care, you should quit bringing it up all the time.

I wasn't the one who brought it up.

 

[jjvw]

I wasn't the one who brought it up.

You are the one who made it about yourself.

 

[Zorba]

You are the one who made it about yourself.
View attachment 706960

Yea, and your point is? I made an observation that it would be nice if there were an alternative to a phucking PHOOOOOONNE. Someone else decided to ramp it up from there.

 

[jjvw]

Here is a relevant and useful critique of phone connectivity with a vehicle from realworld experience. This is offered with the understanding that somewhere in this thread, @4x4 EVC already stated he wants a simple user interface with the EV system.

On my TJ, I use the SwitchPros control panel for lights, air compressor, lockers, etc. The basic installation of connecting wires together allows for simple on/off functionality.

Using the SwitchPros app on my phone via Bluetooth, I have access to vast amount of button programing, functions and behaviors to design a fairly complex switching system. In the future, the moment this app disappears and the existing setup gets reset, I lose all this additional functionality and the control panel returns to basic on/off push button functionally.

 

[4x4 EVC]

Make it viewable on something besides a damn PHOOOOOONNE, and it might a good thing!

I don't know @Zorba , most people have phones and I was thinking this cheap, embedded camera would be BT enabled so, an easy grab.

But, yes, if someone installed a nice digital dash of almost any kind, you could plug it in to that such that you could see inside you back battery box with ease.

I'm going to make a wild guess here, but based on your distaste for your phone's OTHER functions, I guess we could tap it out via a connected cord to a plug that could easily go into any dash.

AND, if you hate even the camera technology, I wont talk about putting it on the CAN Bus network so it can be readable by virtually everything.

Nope, not me, I wont discuss connectivity, not me, no way!

Where is my smoke signal blanket, I know i had it just the other day when I was ordering DoorDash....

- Patrick