Introduction - EV time for TJs

[4x4 EVC]

Oh, how about a friggin COMPUTER? Or hell, even that backup screen that our Benevolent OverLords forces us to have - make it useful for something.

So, look @Zorba , I failed to see the group ragging on you about this, I PROMISE, I was just kidding and that I will scroll down before I comment or pile on.

Sorry about that.

BUT, I think you might consider the idea that we only use stupid computers, HeathKits, strictly 8080 chips, none of the flashy 8086 crap you see almost everywhere (...in 1985...).

My moto: If you can't do it with 32k of onboard memory, you're probably thinking too hard.

- Patrck

 

[4x4 EVC]

Sometimes I feel like you can't possibly be serious. No one on earth wants to carry a computer around with them or half a dozen different single-purpose devices to do things that a single 5" display can do perfectly well. I get that a phone isn't the best tool for everything and I agree with you that they're overpriced and on the deleterious affects it's had on society at large (though most of them probably fall more on social media)....but it is the best tool for some things. It's not a good key fob, word processor, spreadsheet editor or flashlight but it's a better GPS than any GPS I've ever had, it's a better point and shoot camera than I've ever had, it's a better OBD2 scanner than I've ever had, and cost less than what I would have paid for all of those devices individually if they worked even as well at their purpose as the phone does.

I think what you hate is the channel it provided to allow billionaires to manipulate and enshittify, and you're blaming the tool instead of the people using it for the wrong purposes and get a weird kick out of being deliberately obtuse and obstinate about it.

Personaly, I'm just so happy someone on this site used the word 'deleterious', golf clap to you @freedom_in_4low!

 

[jjvw]

I don't know @Zorba , most people have phones and I was thinking this cheap, embedded camera would be BT enabled so, an easy grab.

But, yes, if someone installed a nice digital dash of almost any kind, you could plug it in to that such that you could see inside you back battery box with ease.

I'm going to make a wild guess here, but based on your distaste for your phone's OTHER functions, I guess we could tap it out via a connected cord to a plug that could easily go into any dash.

AND, if you hate even the camera technology, I wont talk about putting it on the CAN Bus network so it can be readable by virtually everything.

Nope, not me, I wont discuss connectivity, not me, no way!

Where is my smoke signal blanket, I know i had it just the other day when I was ordering DoorDash....

- Patrick

If there is anything of value to take from his frequent luddite adjacent diatribes, the tech needs to be simple, effective, and minimally intrusive. But I think you already understand and want that.

 

[4x4 EVC]

Let's see here. "Better GPS". Nope. "Better camera". Nope - yes they can take good pix, but at their considerable price they should! And you still have to hold the balky thing - nver mind that they've destroyed photography and vidography. 5 inch display - yea - that's a HUGE part of the problem with the thing (no pun intended). I can see using a tablet for something like this - you're still stuck with the braindead OS that spies on you, and the crippled UI, but at least the display is of a marginally useful size and you have some control over what gets telemetered over the Internet. I really have yet to see how a PHOOOOOONNE is the "best" tool for anything, of the many things it does - badly. If I need to interface something with a screen into my Jeep - or whatever - it had better have a damn decent screen, decent OS, and a damn keyboard - read: Laptop. Or a long USB cable or WiFi connection gets me to a desktop with multiple large screens that make the job easy to deal with - but a laptop will do if I really need to do something in the field. Hell, even my in-Jeep GPS will attach to my WiFi and update itself.

I (now) hate the damn things because of all the damage they have done to the world. Yea, it started as "its a stupid, overpriced luxury/toy, nobody with half a brain would want to deal with this crap", but it has morphed into "This thing is the at or near the core of everything that is wrong with the world and society." Of course what REALLY rusts my finger cymbals is the EXPECTATION that I have one of the fucking things. Much like a so-called "JoyMaker" in an old and forgettable SF novel from the 1960s, its cost is considerable and if you don't pay, pay, pay, pay for the "privilege" of having this thing, you are a second class citizen.

People's slavish devotion to these things is sickening, and apologists SWARM out of the woodwork anytime anyone DARES to figuratively say "The emperor has no clothes". All for something that really SUCKS on multiple levels. As I've said before, my trip to Egypt really rammed home how terrible these things are and the damage they are doing to the world. When you see a culture that has not YET been completely destroyed by these fucking devices from Hell, it becomes painfully obvious. Subsequent research has shown me that my dislike was hitherto rather simple minded.

So yes, I am "serious". I'm about as serious as a fucking heart attack or cancer. These things are the #1 vector for sheer evil in our society, in countless ways. There is plenty of discussion and books on the subject for those who aren't too addled to investigate. Most people actually know this, or at least a good part of it - but not enough people care. I say its all about the PHOOOOOONNE, but it really is all about THE MACHINE.

A certain apologist of my acquaintance on another forum - he supposedly works "high up" in the TelCo industry - just posted about how LG has just come out with some kind of automotive telematics unit with something like 12 5G antennas. Oh this is just so WONDERFUL, cars will be able to move ENORMOUS amounts of data. Yea, and TelCos - the robber barons of our time - will make a mint off of this bullshit. Yea, he's an apologist for all this crap, he works in the industry - of course he is! Root cause: Smartphone tech. And on and on and on.

Ummmm, is this a bad time to bring up my eventual option of offering telemetric views of your EV Jeep, for the following:
- Charge status (SoC - State of Charge)
- Remote start
- Remote KILL (someone might steal it, I don't know, )
- Mi/kW/$ - tracking the cost of each mile, a MPG type thingy but super accurate.
- Location - I'm been lost, it's scary.
- Live video feeds.
- Drone follow feature (think Speed Racer and that homming pigion thingy but for your Jeep to video you while you try to drown my EV Jeeps - Booooo).
- Other stuff I haven't thought of yet but will think of, eventually. Jeepers are kinda' cut from a certain nerdy bolt of cloth, sorry.

Seriously, I hate to dissuade you of continuing to engage with us but, there are certain computers I will be using in all EV Jeeps.

BUT, if keeping a tally of all things computer in your rig, I do remove all the PCU, MCU and the like computers before we do the other stuff, so, less computers.... sorry, I need um, they do stuff.

- Patrick

 

[4x4 EVC]

Here is a relevant and useful critique of phone connectivity with a vehicle from realworld experience. This is offered with the understanding that somewhere in this thread, @4x4 EVC already stated he wants a simple user interface with the EV system.

On my TJ, I use the SwitchPros control panel for lights, air compressor, lockers, etc. The basic installation of connecting wires together allows for simple on/off functionality.

Using the SwitchPros app on my phone via Bluetooth, I have access to vast amount of button programing, functions and behaviors to design a fairly complex switching system. In the future, the moment this app disappears and the existing setup gets reset, I lose all this additional functionality and the control panel returns to basic on/off push button functionally.

<<< what he said...less, simplier, but, some PLC stuff (PLC - Programable Logic Controller stuff, aka, little tiny computers, Arduino, Pi, nice things...)...

 

[4x4 EVC]

If there is anything of value to take from his frequent luddite adjacent diatribes, the tech needs to be simple, effective, and minimally intrusive. But I think you already understand and want that.

More golf claps for 'luddite' and 'diatribes' - great words, super fun insults.

- Patrick

 

[4x4 EVC]

Apparently, I've lost complete control of this thread.

So be it, but look at this, my new shop with Jeeps in it.

The white one is a 1976 CJ-5. I didn't want to take it but the owners tugged on my heartstrings with 'This is our family Jeep and now that out son is 21, he wants to drive it BUT, he doesn't wrench and we don't want to pay maintenance on it for the rest of his or out lives.'

Surprisingly, not an uncommon refrain, Cool.

The front Jeep is a 2003 RHD TJ.

I got 40 or so of these to do.

This one is about 90% done.

Part of our Fleet work we do.

That's why I'm here, given how we have a live TJ conversion line open, I wanted to get more TJs to do at the same time.

Hardly any computers in these, you can't even see them from your porch.

- Patrick

 

[jjvw]

<<< what he said...less, simplier, but, some PLC stuff (PLC - Programable Logic Controller stuff, aka, little tiny computers, Arduino, Pi, nice things...)...

The best design is the design that is invisible and effortless. No one really cares how you get there. It just needs to work well and be reliable. I suspect an EV converted vehicle requires some amount of end-user customization for driving styles. And that customization needs to be accessed though some kind of digital interface. Again, however you get there, that interface needs to effortless to access and understand.

 

[Zorba]

If there is anything of value to take from his frequent luddite adjacent diatribes, the tech needs to be simple, effective, and minimally intrusive. But I think you already understand and want that.

Correct - and tech needs to be completely absent when its not absolutely necessary. I have yet to see why a computer of any kind is necessary in any vehicle, much less an EV. Maybe the PWM, or AC controller is best implemented with a computer, but no screens or bullshit as far as I'm concerned.

I just *love* fools people who call me a "luddite" - when I've forgotten more about computers and tech than most will ever know.

 

[lBasket]

Can confirm that a TJ will in fact float down a river given the opportunity

 

[jjvw]

Correct - and tech needs to be completely absent when its not absolutely necessary. I have yet to see why a computer of any kind is necessary in any vehicle, much less an EV. Maybe the PWM, or AC controller is best implemented with a computer, but no screens or bullshit as far as I'm concerned.

I just *love* fools people who call me a "luddite" - when I've forgotten more about computers and tech than most will ever know.

Luddite adjacent. Everyone knows you do computery things.

And many of us are aware that the first electric vehicles date back to the mid-1800s. Here is a non-computerized 1909 Studebaker electric car. We can do better than this by allowing technology in.

 

[Zorba]

... We can do better than this by allowing technology in.

Of course we can, no argument. That doesn't mean a bunch of gratuitous crap, it means tech that actually improves the product. A bunch of screens, networks and smartphone bullshit isn't an improvement.

 

[jjvw]

Can confirm that a TJ will in fact float down a river given the opportunity

I remember and can also confirm.

 

[4x4 EVC]

The best design is the design that is invisible and effortless. No one really cares how you get there. It just needs to work well and be reliable. I suspect an EV converted vehicle requires some amount of end-user customization for driving styles. And that customization needs to be accessed though some kind of digital interface. Again, however you get there, that interface needs to effortless to access and understand.

Interestingly, I tend to over think stupid small stuff when I should be focusing on production.

Apparently, I harbor some deep seated belief that the engine bay should have varying degrees of symmetry and clean design.

Maybe it's some sorta' childhood trauma associated with my love of vintage Jags and Aston Martin engine bays.

I've channeled it to accessibility and instability (a derivative of modular design to allow for the ultimate goal of User installability).

It's a process, I'm seeing someone about it.

~~~~
Yes, I not only think you're correct about customization, on a handful of levels.

First, the primary profile from the Inverter which is also called the controller in this case. That's a big one that you can, with great caution, adjust a bunch of things related to Single Peddle mode and Regen and stuff...

Then there's the BMS (Battery Management System) profile - this will be a handful of settings related to cooling timing and some actions that can be triggered by various actions in the BMS - SoC, pack temps, motor temps, stuff...

And, I have manual switches for Regen Levels, clutchless shifting, and if equipped, secret buttons to display status info for the entire system while the vehicle is off (ultimately, telemetrically available and BT if within range).

The thing is, moving to an electric platform, opens up so many customization opportunities that are 100% end User driven.

Here's one: 48v winches. Imagine what the torque of a 48v winch could tug (V=IR if you're feeling like channeling your high school algebra mad skills).

Anyway, yes, so much customizability and custom add-on's I can't even imagine at this point.

Hope that somewhat addresses your comments @jjvw .

- Patrick

 

[4x4 EVC]

Correct - and tech needs to be completely absent when its not absolutely necessary. I have yet to see why a computer of any kind is necessary in any vehicle, much less an EV. Maybe the PWM, or AC controller is best implemented with a computer, but no screens or bullshit as far as I'm concerned.

I just *love* fools people who call me a "luddite" - when I've forgotten more about computers and tech than most will ever know.

I'm pretty sure @jjvw meant luddite in a loving way...I could be wrong....

Funny story, AC does NOT need any real smarts to run. I only know that because I didn't know a single thing about AC and controls and flap door vacuum or actuator doors but now I do. Like: I had to design a real pre-charge circuit for the Guchen AC compressor to protect it against inrush.

YES, there's a lot in the sentense but none of it needs a computer to execute your ideal HVAC settings in your open air Jeep.

Color me surprised also.

- Patrick

 

[Zorba]

I'm pretty sure @jjvw meant luddite in a loving way...I could be wrong....

It gets tiresome.

 

[jjvw]

It gets tiresome.

Agreed. It is tiresome to see you complaining about phones all over the place.

 

[Zorba]

Agreed. It is tiresome to see you complaining about phones all over the place.

The root of all evil. But its not personal (just business as Roth would say).

 

[4x4 EVC]

The root of all evil. But its not personal (just business as Roth would say).

The root of all evil is interference and lack of empathy to ones fellow man.

It's the lack of imagination and patience to fully understand the natural state of all thing is change - for which the ONLY plausible 'cure' is adaptability.

Hence: Adapt or die.

Not cell phones. (not land lines, not telegraphs, not smoke signals, not petroglyphs, not a whisper of change carried on the gentle breeze.)

Focus Gentleman,

Old ass Jeeps, modern motor swap, nothing more, nothing less.

It's as simple as this: if you like electric tooth brushes, you'll get this.

If you don't and consider the intrusion of change in your life an afront to your personal understanding of your choices, that's fine but, projecting your societal fears on this one issue just because you own a Jeep is nothing more than leaning against a windmill.

I mean it, if you have an electric tooth brush, you'll be my customers, eventually.

If not, not much you can do about it but stomp your feet and shake your fist at the powers that be.

Victor Hugo summed it up rather nicely: 'Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come.'.

Obviously, he was speaking directly to how much torque you make at 1rpm in all EV motors, obviously....

- Patrick

 

[jjvw]

The root of all evil is interference and lack of empathy to ones fellow man.

It's the lack of imagination and patience to fully understand the natural state of all thing is change - for which the ONLY plausible 'cure' is adaptability.

Hence: Adapt or die.

Not cell phones. (not land lines, not telegraphs, not smoke signals, not petroglyphs, not a whisper of change carried on the gentle breeze.)

Focus Gentleman,

Old ass Jeeps, modern motor swap, nothing more, nothing less.

It's as simple as this: if you like electric tooth brushes, you'll get this.

If you don't and consider the intrusion of change in your life an afront to your personal understanding of your choices, that's fine but, projecting your societal fears on this one issue just because you own a Jeep is nothing more than leaning against a windmill.

I mean it, if you have an electric tooth brush, you'll be my customers, eventually.

If not, not much you can do about it but stomp your feet and shake your fist at the powers that be.

Victor Hugo summed it up rather nicely: 'Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come.'.

Obviously, he was speaking directly to how much torque you make at 1rpm in all EV motors, obviously....

- Patrick

A valid position one could take against a phone interface to an EV conversion is concern about what happens after we move past that tech. This is the same position I have regarding the SwitchPros app being the only access to the programming features. I do not know the answer. I am also not immediately opposed to a phone interface.

I do know that this is also not the issue to get hung up on.