Is there such thing as a "good" performance aluminum radiator for the TJ?

ICDGary said:
Wanting to do it versus needing to is pure semantics. There is a potential desire due to a possible need for more than OEM brings to the table including the apparent "reserve/excess" capability. I didn't miss anything but perhaps you did. I was simply wondering why there is apparent butthurt over someone suggesting that they have a system that works as well as or better than OEM. I don't understand why someone feels the need to piss in the Cheerios of someone who swapped and is happy with their results. Isn't it their Jeep, not one that runs in JV or is owned by anyone else?
Click to expand...
The issue with these discussions is they are rarely apples to apples. I have no issue with finding a great aftermarket solution that will cool even as good as OEM Mopar does. When I find it and I am on a continual quest to do so, I'll be quite pleased. So far, we have found nothing that is as durable, as efficient or even remotely as cost effective. Until you live and drive in this part of the world, it is hard to understand that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jerry Bransford
jjvw said:
When you say 3 stock radiators in 9 years, were these Mopar radiators? Where were you buying them? About how many miles did they survive? How did they fail?
Click to expand...
Is it hard to predict where this is headed? It is about to slot right over into the suspension category.
 
ICDGary said:
Wanting to do it versus needing to is pure semantics. There is a potential desire due to a possible need for more than OEM brings to the table including the apparent "reserve/excess" capability. I didn't miss anything but perhaps you did. I was simply wondering why there is apparent butthurt over someone suggesting that they have a system that works as well as or better than OEM. I don't understand why someone feels the need to piss in the Cheerios of someone who swapped and is happy with their results. Isn't it their Jeep, not one that runs in JV or is owned by anyone else?
Click to expand...

Precisely the ONLY reason I've finally spoken up. There are 6 ways to Sunday but if you're not in agreement with certain people on here you get their wrath. This forum can help a lot of people BY a lot of people with experience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: txbemis69
Squirrel Trap said:
Chris said YOU not lots of guys and there are a lot of guys not setting shit up correctly so I stand by it...this isn't my first f'ing rodeo.
Click to expand...
I'll repeat a little story simply for the sake of redundancy. Several years ago, a feller moved down here in July from the PNW. After a few days I noticed that he didn't drive his Jeep during the day. His answer to my query as to why was that it overheated and the only way he could drive was at night when it cooled down below 90 and he had to drive with the heater on full blast. I fetched up the Mopar parts, cleaned it out and got it back in tip top shape. He could now drive in our near continual 100 degree temps with no issues.

I asked him why he hadn't addressed it sooner. He related that it never got even a smidgen of a needle width over 210 no matter what he was doing up north. I solved his problem the same way I've solved it in 30 other TJ's with cooling system problems here where it gets a bit warmer. That tells me all I need to know about Mopar stuff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tworley, Jerry Bransford and B252
ICDGary said:
Not to pour gas on what appears to be just an ember of dischord, but all parties are correct. The engineers at Jeep spec'd out a decent (adequate plus a certain overkill factor) cooling system to be sure.
Click to expand...

Spec'd out well enough in fact to work for their specific middle east vehicles. Being the inquisitive sort that likes to know such things, when I discovered that there was a Middle East optioned package for the cooling system, I dug up the part number and purchased one. When it arrived, the only thing that is different is the flanges are mirrored since the ME option is a right hand drive. The actual cooling portion of the radiator is the same as the US option. That is a considerable overkill factor for most of the US.

That being said, there are a number of aftermarket possibilities that could be every bit as effective. Obviously (or at least apparently) those who run in @Jerry Bransford neck of the woods don't need them so they get no "press" from that end. That is excellent as those apparatuses aren't free and there's no sense in paying for parts one doesn't "need" when instead we can pay for other parts we "want".
Click to expand...

I highlighted the most important part of that. Yes, I do not discount that there exist options that could work. We have yet to find any that actually do work in this part of the world with a sort of qualified MAYBE for one option and that is the high dollar version from Northern. It was used when the high dollar option from Wizard cooling failed miserably. The reason it is a "maybe" is while it has thus far lasted a year with no problem with leaks or efficiency, the expense is terrible for us. It is a 500 dollar radiator and the labor to install it is almost the same since you have to remove the grill to put it in the rig. That is silly not to mention that the flanges are terrible and do not fit the TJ core support and they should for that kind of money.

There are folks in other automotive disciplines that do need enhanced capability in that regard and they can find it in the aftermarket. @Chris needs something for a non OEM setup, so it is perfectly logical and likely that his salvation will indeed come from a modified or custom arrangement.

There is nothing inherently wrong with or lacking in electric fans, aluminum radiators, or combinations of the two. I have been using both in motorsports effectively for nearly 4 decades in disciplines from SCORE to NASCAR and many in between.
Click to expand...

And therein lies the giant problem in these discussions. The TJ does not respond the same as other vehicles in different disciplines do to commonly solved problems. We have no issues using electric fans and aluminum radiators in our race program. I asked the builder of those to make me a set up for the TJ and he refused since his previous efforts failed. He now has a new radiator he said we might try, it's only a 1000 bucks plus the fan if I want to give it a shot.

Lots of folks act like I or we have something against aluminum radiators and electric fans and I simply do not. What I have is a lot of experience fixing cooling system issues and none are fixable in this area with those parts that are even close to as effective as the stock set up.
To imply they "do not work" in general or are somehow "less than" the OEM system is wrong and flinging virtual poo at a viable solution to some members needs. They are simply an alternative, and within that realm of alternatives there are parts that are more suitable for certain applications and other parts that are less suitable. Just as we have many experts here for certain parts or subsystems, there are others out there who have the cooling side of things pretty squared away.
Click to expand...
In context, I can fling lots and lots of poo because no one has yet shown up with an aluminum radiator and electric fan that works down here. When I find that answer and it is even remotely close to OEM performance, I will use it and tell others that they can do the same with some reasonably accurate assurance of an acceptable level of performance.

I know the OEM radiator will go away before long and I need that answer. I fix way too many rigs not to have it and we are in near panic mode scrambling for that alternate solution. The other most concerning issue is the Mopar stuff has gotten so expensive now that the alternate solution makes even more sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ICDGary, psrivats, StG58 and 1 other person
At the risk of dropping an unwanted and only marginally useful turd into the shallow end of the pool...

There are a bunch of TJ specific parts that fall into the same bucket as radiators and heater cores. The biggest return for the time wasted here is sharing non-OEM substitutes that actually work.

Carry on...
 
  • Like
Reactions: ICDGary
Squirrel Trap said:
With respect to those who believe 100% in the stock radiator. No the stock radiator is not superior to a high quality radiator and electric fan setup. I've ran both and would NEVER go back to the crap stock plastic bs cheaply made junk that comes stock. They are garbage and no the OEM is not any different than the chinese made ones. Plastic mated to metal, absolute crap, am I saying they can't last, no, do they sometimes, you're completly full of shit if you say they are quality.
Click to expand...
And this is where whatever well meaning intentions you may have had fully shit the bed. Yes, the OEM is a quality piece since I have solved every single overheating and running hot issue with them and nothing but them for many years in an area where we depend on our cooling systems being in tip top shape. I've run and been around Mopar, Griffin, CSF, Northern, Wizard, Champion, Mishimoto, and several no name parts store offerings. That and I fix lots of rigs folks bring to me with cooling issues. Not a single time has a Mopar Part let me down and my attrition rate with them is zero. Zero is no failures in the short term, no failures in the long term and many of these are going on 10 years since I have fixed them. If you line up all of the radiators I mentioned above, I will step past all of them for free and buy the Mopar. I simply don't have time to dick around with a warranty issue where I have to swap out a radiator for free. But there again, all in context, I need anything I install to work, know it will work without question, and have a very high level of certainty that I can make that happen.


Where do you think MOPAR is getting them, they aren't made here. They are the same garbage period. Are there badly made aluminum radiators, yes. Are there high quality ones that are inexpensive, YES! Go to ebay, search performance cooling or ozcooling products. Well made kits that work, way better than stock and for the money amazing. Could you get a bad product, maybe but the customer service is good enough and you can get a 1yr warranty through square that covers everything and labor 100%. Close to 5000 positive ratings for performance cooling products.
Click to expand...

I've long given up on country of origin as any sort of a pedigree. I use lots of parts that aren't US made and they are without exception, durable, well made, and high value.
My experience: 3 stock radiators in 10 years and I finally decided to go aluminum with an electric fan. Higher capacity in fluid, more engine bay room, less rotating mass in that no fan or clutch. Again tons of experts on here and fine, I'll respect your opinion but you're wrong. It's called physics and although I'm not dynoing anything and trail use vs highway use are two different animals, there is parasitic power loss in the use of a fan clutch and fan vs electric. Heat transfer is better and combined with the added fluid capacity, electric fan and heat transfer my engine maintains a more stable temperature by leaps and bounds especially on the trail when you need it most going 6 miles in 4 hours. Engine runs smoother, power is smoother and quicker off the pedal but not by leaps and bounds. Power gain on my 4cyl, yes! how much, probably not more than a few but by percentage on a 4cyl, 37" tires, long arm suspension, G2 dana44 front and 8.8 rear axles 4.88 with ARB's. Ax15 and an Atlas 4sp...significant enough to notice especially going up inclines on the hwy etc. Around town and on the trail, insignificant outside of runs smoother, better pedal and cooling much more consistent.
Click to expand...
I find it a bit odd that you mention physics and it is clear from your comments about 1, 2, and 3 row radiators that you actually understand none of it. If you would like a better understanding of the how and why of radiators, start a thread and we'll get some good discussion going that will likely help everyone learn. Oh, and I am not wrong, not by a long shot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tworley, FTI76, jjvw and 1 other person
StG58 said:
At the risk of dropping an unwanted and only marginally useful turd into the shallow end of the pool...

There are a bunch of TJ specific parts that fall into the same bucket as radiators and heater cores. The biggest return for the time wasted here is sharing non-OEM substitutes that actually work.

Carry on...
Click to expand...
If you have a non OEM sub that works as well as the OEM radiator does, spit it out, I'm all ears in case you haven't gleaned that from my novels on the subject. I'm in pursuit of that answer, with serious intent.
 
Griffin radiators use epoxy, cant be repaired. I have a US radiators triple pass radiator behind a 572 hemi...I would call it an equivalent to a Mopar unit.
 
Squirrel Trap said:
Ya because that was what was said...
Click to expand...

You didn't respond to this thread and say, "There are also a lot of guys setting them up incorrectly."?

Because that's what I was responding to. Blaine has installed so many different aluminum radiators and never had any real luck with them, that I just thought I'd let him know that maybe he was one of those guys who was setting them up incorrectly.

Obviously I'm being a smart ass, but I find it quite interesting that a guy who spends a good chunk of his time building these rigs hasn't yet found an aluminum radiator that is worth a damn.

Look on the bright side. Once the OE Mopar part supply dries up, then we'll all be at the mercy of the Chinese (i.e. Mishimoto garbage) and any other local auto part store brand we can find. ;) At that point we'll be forced to run any radiator we can find, including some of the sketchy aluminum ones.

I don't have enough experience to comment on any of this first hand. I'm just going off of what I've heard from Blaine and many others.

Either way, this has turned into quite a lively discussion (I don't mean that in a bad way either), and discussions are good, so carry on!
 
  • Like
Reactions: ICDGary
Well you wont get a good radiator for $250 like a mopar unit, plan on spending about 4 times that amount. Buy Hey Chris, you can sell your old setup to get a good one! :giggle:
 
Does anyone have a answer to the original question?
It’s been proven on this form that the OEM radiator is quality and does the job
However there might be some times when more performance is needed, V8 swap, supercharger etc ...
At some point OEM may not be available
We already know which all aluminum are Junk.
Recently had a conversation with a rep from a major all aluminum manufacturer. He told me the problem with the TJ is the core support actually flex’s a little which is causing cracking in the all aluminum radiator since it is more ridged
I have a good friend right now who is testing a BE COOL radiator right now there answer to this is rubber bushing at mounting holes and only using 4 bolts to hold in place.
So back to the original question is there a good all aluminum radiator for the TJ available?
 
Davidtj said:
Does anyone have a answer to the original question?
It’s been proven on this form that the OEM radiator is quality and does the job
However there might be some times when more performance is needed, V8 swap, supercharger etc ...
At some point OEM may not be available
We already know which all aluminum are Junk.
Recently had a conversation with a rep from a major all aluminum manufacturer. He told me the problem with the TJ is the core support actually flex’s a little which is causing cracking in the all aluminum radiator since it is more ridged
I have a good friend right now who is testing a BE COOL radiator right now there answer to this is rubber bushing at mounting holes and only using 4 bolts to hold in place.
So back to the original question is there a good all aluminum radiator for the TJ available?
Click to expand...
If you have ever had a grill shell out of the vehicle, the last term you would use to describe it is flexible or a little bit flexible. It takes about 30 seconds of examination, a bit of critical thinking, and a small bit of knowledge about material strength to figure out that anyone who says the TJ grill flexes is pretty much full of shit.

Look at how the OEM radiator is mounted to the mounting flanges. The two plastic end tanks have small recessed areas molded into them that a #10 size machine screw with a square head is slid into. There are two at the top and bottom on each side in the slots. The mounting flange has holes that fit over the screws and then a Keps nut is threaded on and tightened down.

If the grill shell flexed, it would rip those tiny little screws right out of the plastic. Of all the issues and problems I've read about over the years, the failure of that attachment method has never been brought up or mentioned and I've never seen it on any used radiator I've messed with either.

The other thing that is overlooked is how the grill is mounted. There is a center mount with two snubbers at the outer corners on top of the frame. As the frame flexes under articulation, one side moves up and compresses the snubber and the other side just lifts off the frame since the shell can pivot on the center mount.

I know from a design failure that if you try to mount the shell to the frame at the corners and eliminate the center mount, it will tear up the mounts, or rip the bolts out of the corners of the shell and even then, it won't damage the radiator.

As for the 4 bolt mounting. Take a look at the flange sometime. Once you figure out that the flange is about 3" wide and unable to flex laterally since that is a very large shear plane, you'll understand that 2 bolts, 4 bolts, 6 bolts, or 20 won't change anything. It should be noted that the 05-06 that come to us leave the factory with 2 bolts per side. I suspect that is not because there was an issue with damage but because they figured out the flanges don't flex and it only needs 2 per side. The reason I think that is we have seen quite a few with just the upper bolts holding them in. (not recommended)
 
Last edited:
crackedcornish said:
https://www.championradiators.com/store/3542644/home?gclid=CMj7s8PNsM4CFVFbhgodKkID9Q
I use a Champion rad and have no complaints at all with its quality
Click to expand...
We live about 5 miles in a straight line from Champion. Their quality is hit or miss and they pander to ignorance in that they still sell and recommend 2 and 3 row radiators for the TJ in the standard core depth. I asked once why they did that and they said their customers wanted 2 and 3 row radiators. They should have spent some time on education instead.
 
Top Bottom
Back