LED vs Halogen Headlight

RubiconMike said:
Are these the housings you are referring to Mr Bills?
https://www.quadratec.com/products/97009_6001.htm
Click to expand...

The part # is the same and they look the same so they should be the same.

BTW - There should be a small rectangular paper label on the back of the lenses you are selling with the part number. They are most likely P/N 002395031.

There is some confusion on Amazon as to which is the correct TJ conversion kit because Amazon lists the conversion kit for 7" round headlamps as containing "165mm housings, which is only 6.5". However, several posters on various jeep forums have stated that the 165mm kit linked below is indeed the correct kit for TJ's. There is also Hella product literature on the Interweb indicating that the overall diameter of the 7" conversion housing is 178mm with the lighted area of the lens being 165mm. Therefore, I suspect that the kit on Amazon has the correct P/N 002395031 housings and Amazon's product description is the problem.

Someone else will need to verify that the Amazon kit linked below is the correct kit. I purchased a single E-Code H4 housing when I upgraded the lights on my '06 LJ because I only needed to replace one in the pair of E-Code housings I already had and have used in several jeeps beginning in the 1980's. The new and old housings had identical part numbers but were not perfect matches due to the considerable difference in age and exposure to the elements (something only I seemed to notice) so I ended up purchasing a second new housing to match the one I had just purchased. My good old housing is now on my parts shelf as a spare. Had I known at the beginning that I would be purchasing two housings I would have purchased the kit from the outset because it is less expensive than purchasing the housings individually.

7" Conversion Kit on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G72SKQ/?tag=wranglerorg-20

jgaz said:
Amazon Link to what I believe @Mr. Bills used:

HELLA 002395031 Vision Plus 178mm H4 High/Low Beam Conversion Headlamp https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G76Q2W/?tag=wranglerorg-20
Click to expand...

Yes, that is the link for the single housing. The price varies from week to week. I paid $33.19 each for my housings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: alittleoff and RussTJ
Jeep9748 said:
OK LED experts. I have the JW speaker LED headlights in my 97 TJ. Super awesome illumination, my issue is recently I have a lot of oncoming traffic flashing their lights at me and I flash back showing my brights are not on. so I am torn to put my halogen back in and use h13 XV bulbs. what are the arguments for and against. my real concern is IF the LEDs really are that bright to other oncoming traffic I may cause an accident or someone to wreck. And go....
Click to expand...

I would just lower them a hair and see if the flashing goes down.
 
I think you should sell me your JW speakers and put the halogen back in. Haha... But first i would check your headlight position. JW have pretty good cutoff. Also if you have suspension that flex's a lot on acceleration it will point the light higher when you're getting up to speed and blind oncoming traffic with "JW brightness". But ya, you should still sell em to me for a good price. Haha, good luck buddy.
 
Oh and if your going Halogen. My vote is Cibies with your favorite bulb. The Phillips 130% bulb seems to be a favorite, in your desired wattage ofcourse . The Cibies are considered to be "dare I say" better than the Hellas Ecodes because the light disperses better horizontally and the Hellas low beams and high beams are too far apart. If you aim the low beams properly then the high beam are up in the trees. Aim the high beams properly and the low beam are pointing at the ground in front of you jeep. So you have to find a compromise. The Cibies were hard to get for a while so Hellas kinda took over with vendors but know you can get them on Amazon. There is a great write up comparing the two by someone much smarter than me (one of the headlight gurus). Ill see if I can find it. Either one would be great but for 20 bucks more I'm gonna put my hat in the Cibies ring.

Found it.. great write up.

Cibie vs. Hella E-Codes - ClubRoadster.net https://www.clubroadster.net/vb_forum/25-product-reviews/190170-cibie-vs-hella-e-codes.html
 
Jeep9748 said:
. . . I have the JW speaker LED headlights in my 97 TJ. Super awesome illumination, my issue is recently I have a lot of oncoming traffic flashing their lights at me and I flash back showing my brights are not on. so I am torn to put my halogen back in and use h13 XV bulbs. what are the arguments for and against. my real concern is IF the LEDs really are that bright to other oncoming traffic I may cause an accident or someone to wreck. And go....
Click to expand...

As noted above, your headlights need to be aimed properly and perhaps a bit lower than the norm.

If people are still flashing their lights at you after your headlights are properly aimed then you can presume that the lights are irritating or blinding to oncoming traffic and therefore creating a dangerous situation for them. If that is the case the responsible thing to do is replace your LED headlights with something less irritating.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjvw and alittleoff
In my own observations, most of the 'off brand' LED & HID headlights just suck. People say that they can see the road better at night but, at what cost. If they say that they are aimed correctly, did they aim them against a wall or on a dark street.
Guys, do yourself a favor. If your lights have a definite cut-off beam, that's great. But if it looks like your lights illuminate like a flood light, then all that does is blind the oncoming driver and you get flashed.
I've been using Cibie Z-beams, E-code housings since the early 1980's. And yes they are aimed correctly but, when I get flashed and that's not very often, it's always from very low slung cars where their driving position is probably only 3-4 feet from the ground.
Now, when I'm in my Jeep and a lifted 'bro' truck comes up behind me and their lights are in my mirrors, well those guys are just assholes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shatto and jjvw
Put the Cibie reflectors with Sylvania
9003 bulbs 555302E0-11F7-4BD2-A65E-7D30EA7C6C09.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shatto and alittleoff
Thoughts about headlights.
A couple hundred thousand miles courier driving, let's say thirty thousand at night, and I note that:
1. The cut-off headlights are wonderful on the open road, with mostly even lighting left to right.
2. In traffic in town, cut-off headlights terrify me. I know what is in front of me is lit but I have the sensation that the lights are off in my Tundra but the Jeep feels the same so I drive both with the fog lights on to have more to the side and off the hood light. I've driven cars that don't give the sensation so maybe it is the angle between eye and light.
3. High beams light the world, but are almost useless because of highway reflective signs, etc. which are blinding.
 
Some observations about Hella E-Code halogen headlight aiming:

The charts and illustrations for DIY headlight aiming (including those on the How-To in this forum) show an aiming pattern that is quite a bit higher than the aiming pattern recommended by DanielSternLighting.com, which has a chart showing how much to lower the headlight pattern at 25' based on the height of the headlight axis from the ground. For example, for my lifted jeep the pattern would be lowered 4.5" from the level typically shown on most headlight aiming charts/illustrations.

I first aimed my lights using the method referenced by @Chris in his How-To and observed that the low beams were OK but the high beams were so high as to be useless. Like this:

lowbeam-jpg-6378-jpg.jpg


I then re-aimed my headlamps 4.5" lower at 25' using the Daniel Stern method, under the solid horizontal line shown in @Chris's illustration rather than above it, like this:

Beam_aim.jpg


When the headlamps were lowered the low beams lit up more of the pavement closer to the jeep as would be expected, distances were still lit much better than with the stock headlamps, and the high beams were no longer in the trees and useful again.

My conclusion is that for Jeeps, particularly lifted jeeps, the Hella E-codes need to be aimed lower than is generically recommended. YMMV.

Links:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/how-to-aim-and-align-your-headlights.2218/

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/images/Aim.pdf
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shatto, Chris and Blackjack
Mr. Bills said:
Some observations about Hella E-Code halogen headlight aiming:

The charts and illustrations for DIY headlight aiming (including those on the How-To in this forum) show an aiming pattern that is quite a bit higher than the aiming pattern recommended by DanielSternLighting.com, which has a chart showing how much to lower the headlight pattern at 25' based on the height of the headlight axis from the ground. For example, for my lifted jeep the pattern would be lowered 4.5" from the level typically shown on most headlight aiming charts/illustrations.

I first aimed my lights using the method referenced by @Chris in his How-To and observed that the low beams were OK but the high beams were so high as to be useless. Like this:

View attachment 70811

I then re-aimed my headlamps 4.5" lower at 25' using the Daniel Stern method, under the solid horizontal line shown in @Chris's illustration rather than above it, like this:

View attachment 70812

When the headlamps were lowered the low beams lit up more of the pavement closer to the jeep as would be expected, distances were still lit much better than with the stock headlamps, and the high beams were no longer in the trees and useful again.

My conclusion is that for Jeeps, particularly lifted jeeps, the Hella E-codes need to be aimed lower than is generically recommended. YMMV.

Links:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/how-to-aim-and-align-your-headlights.2218/

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/images/Aim.pdf
Click to expand...

Everyone should take a few minutes and spend some time on Daniel Sterns site. Lots of good lighting information there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aloha Joe and Shatto
Mr. Bills,

I bought the Hella E codes, mostly on your recommendation. No regrets. They are significanly better than OEM sealed units.

I tried adjusting them based on the "How To" thread, but didn't like the results. I was on flat level terrain and had "targets" with crosshairs out to 25'.

Ultimately I covered each headlight, one at a time, and adjusted the other to where the pattern was pointing to where I wanted. I didn't take any measurements, but I'm sure my end results were similar to yours, slightly lower than the crosshairs.
 
I personally think it’s a debate of more light versus better light.

I prefer halogen to LED. Recent LED bulbs are putting out plenty of light and quality bulbs have good cutoff and separation, but I find that the quality of light is degraded due to the inherent (worse) refractive properties of LED lighting.

Basically, LED light seems to cast dark and very defined shadows behind and around obstacles; if there’s a dip in the road, it’s hard to see the bottom of the dip or any detail other than that it exists. With Halogen, the light wave wraps more around obstacles and there’s more of a chance I can see what the road leading into the dip looks like.

I’m not an expert - these are just my observations over a lifetime of driving, and as an engineer who’s been curious and experimenting with LEDs in cars, bikes, houses, flashlights, etc.

LED light does a great job of throwing lots of direct light, but in every application the light quality is degraded. In interior design they grade light quality and LED is roughly 85% compared to 100% for incandescent (last time I checked anyway, and I don’t know what goes into that grading).

Notice how LEDs are directional - if you want a bulb that illuminates the sides inside a housing, there has to be individual sideways facing bulbs. For LED to spread, there has to be multiple bulbs spaced/angled apart. Single bulbs have a spread of only (approx) 5-10 degrees. This says to me that LED light waves don’t wrap around objects in the same way halogen/incandescents do. Even while scuba diving I’ve noticed LEDs are getting so much brighter but it’s actually harder to see details.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flivver250
I can not express the night and day effect I had from the stock TJ headlights to some lovely LED headlights. Now all my exterior lights are all LED. My lightbar, rigid industries light pods and a couple of yellow amazon led pods all shine beautifully. Lightbar is rarely used though. Too dangerous for other drivers on the road. I am sure everyone on here knows this. o_O

IMG_1248.jpg
 
I recently replaced my stock Euro hella lights with new hella lights and new halogen bulbs. I stayed with stock-ish components and it doubled the brightness. I think the reflective surface and exterior glass was getting pitted and dull. Plenty bright enough and the old school look suits my rig. I also have KC halogen spot lights, again old school. Nothing wrong with LED and no doubt they draw considerably less power, but I rarely drive or wheel at night so amperage draw is not a discriminator.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Squatch
Jeep9748 said:
Ok I have reviewed online write-ups and images of the various Headlights. I know that Chris has a post on here about them. I know that most go with the JW speaker LED's. I have recently tried out the Trucklite LED headlights with heater element. They are very crisp and nice. BUT I have put my old upgrades back in. Shortly after getting my TJ I bought a set of JK headlights. They were 20 bucks for the pair. (guy bought the LED HALOS) so I installed them and opted to put in the Sylvania XL bulbs. SO with 20 for the lights and 25 for the bulbs and 8 for the H4-H13 harness adapter I had a great improvement over stock. Now back to my review of Trucklite.....They were bright, but I just can't accept how they look on the TJ. Looks like a weird bug ( almost as bad as an angry bird grill) I have recently put my halogen lights back in. I put the Trucklite Headlights up in the shelves until I can find a use for them. THis is just my
Click to expand...
 
I literally just did this two days ago. I was a little confused by the amazon description also. The Cibie 82440 is what I used.
 
Top Bottom
Back