Power Tools: Battery Power vs Air Compressor

[sab]

I'm waiting for the new one with lower profile head to be for sale.

If you’re referring to what they’re calling the flathead grinder, I just got one today. They are available. I got mine from AcmeTools.com, and the Honey app gave me about $50 back on it. Here’s the paddle switch version I got:

https://www.acmetools.com/milwaukee...h-no-lock-bare-tool-2886-20/045242566389.html

 

[toximus]

Milwaukee Fuel 10" compound miter saw

I've had one of these (12" actually) and table saw in my Home Depot cart for about 6 months now waiting for some kind of sale but it never has been. I've seen lots of good reviews and real world comparisons but I have a hard time justifying the expense compared to the $250-300 110v version from a cheaper brand. Now that I have some finish carpentry work I need to do I'm reconsidering.

 

[Zorba]

So - how long do the batteries last before needing replacement? If you can find them?

I think in terms of years, or even decades. If I buy a tool today, I expect to be using it 20 years from now. I don't want to keep buying tools, I don't want to keep buying batteries, etc, etc. And I still don't like the weight of battery tools. It just makes sense to me to plug in anything that can be plugged in. Including my lawnmower, although I'd most likely go gas if I had a bigger yard unless I had outlets "farther out" to minimize cord length - 50 ft. of cord is fine, I'm not so sure about handling 100 ft!

From today's little job:

This drill is 50 years old if its a day - it belonged to "Elmer", and is virtually the same model 1/4" drill I grew up with - except its a model or two newer and has variable speed which my childhood drill did not. Its plugged into an outlet less than 6 feet away - why would I use a battery tool?

I have four other drills - (3) 3/8", (1) 1/2" - they all plug in and will be running 50 years from now!

 

[jjvw]

So - how long do the batteries last before needing replacement? If you can find them?

I think in terms of years, or even decades. If I buy a tool today, I expect to be using it 20 years from now. I don't want to keep buying tools, I don't want to keep buying batteries, etc, etc. And I still don't like the weight of battery tools. It just makes sense to me to plug in anything that can be plugged in. Including my lawnmower, although I'd most likely go gas if I had a bigger yard unless I had outlets "farther out" to minimize cord length - 50 ft. of cord is fine, I'm not so sure about handling 100 ft!

From today's little job:
View attachment 308298
This drill is 50 years old if its a day - it belonged to "Elmer", and is virtually the same model 1/4" drill I grew up with - except its a model or two newer and has variable speed which my childhood drill did not. Its plugged into an outlet less than 6 feet away - why would I use a battery tool?

I have four other drills - (3) 3/8", (1) 1/2" - they all plug in and will be running 50 years from now!

i have a few m12 batteries from about 2012-13 that are still in use.

A reason I would never use a drill like that ever again is the spin down when the trigger is released. Using a drill or driver that fully stops when I release the trigger is a level of control I would never give up. Keyless chucks are also quite wonderful. And that drill is heavy and poorly balanced.

 

[toximus]

So - how long do the batteries last before needing replacement? If you can find them?

In 7 years of owning cordless M12 M18 and 20v tools I haven't had a battery go bad. One of them I torched and melted the housing with my plasma cutter and it hasn't had any issues in the years since. One thing that might help is that I do have a rotation of probably 6-7 batteries so I'm not putting all of the wear on a single battery.

Before this, I had a Black and Decker cordless driver and Dustbuster (late 90s I think?). Those 3.6v Verapack batteries junked out and needed replacing every few years. But battery technology has changed significantly since.

 

[Zorba]

In 7 years of owning cordless M12 M18 and 20v tools I haven't had a battery go bad. One of them I torched and melted the housing with my plasma cutter and it hasn't had any issues in the years since. One thing that might help is that I do have a rotation of probably 6-7 batteries so I'm not putting all of the wear on a single battery.

Before this, I had a Black and Decker cordless driver and Dustbuster (late 90s I think?). Those 3.6v Verapack batteries junked out and needed replacing every few years. But battery technology has changed significantly since.

Batteries have most DEFINITELY gotten better - much better. Good to hear they last awhile at least. I just replaced the batteries in our robo-vac (kinda hard to plug one of those in), the original lasted about 2 or 3 years. Batteries have their place, but if I can avoid them, I will.

 

[mrblaine]

So - how long do the batteries last before needing replacement? If you can find them?

It's okay to be willingly behind the times but the comment of "if you can find them?" means you are about as far behind as the Amish. Milwaukee isn't going anywhere any time soon. They have 200 tools in the their M18 line up alone.

I think in terms of years, or even decades. If I buy a tool today, I expect to be using it 20 years from now. I don't want to keep buying tools, I don't want to keep buying batteries, etc, etc. And I still don't like the weight of battery tools.

You really need to get out more. The vast majority of my battery tools are lighter than their equivalent corded counterpart. That and the comparison is highly invalid since I have never seen a corded 1/4" impact driver. There may be one, I'd like to see it if there is.

It just makes sense to me to plug in anything that can be plugged in. Including my lawnmower, although I'd most likely go gas if I had a bigger yard unless I had outlets "farther out" to minimize cord length - 50 ft. of cord is fine, I'm not so sure about handling 100 ft!

From today's little job:
View attachment 308298
This drill is 50 years old if its a day - it belonged to "Elmer", and is virtually the same model 1/4" drill I grew up with - except its a model or two newer and has variable speed which my childhood drill did not. Its plugged into an outlet less than 6 feet away - why would I use a battery tool?

I have four other drills - (3) 3/8", (1) 1/2" - they all plug in and will be running 50 years from now!

While maybe not that old, I have Milwaukee corded 1/2" drive Hole Shooters that I did construction with and even a Milwaukee 7" full metal case grinder with a cord. That dumb thing is so big and heavy I may as well donate it to a museum since I will never use it again.

 

[mrblaine]

One thing that might help is that I do have a rotation of probably 6-7 batteries so I'm not putting all of the wear on a single battery.

I rotate through about 40.

 

[toximus]

I rotate through about 40.

I'm still impressed by the multiple multislot chargers you have going on. I just have the single M12/M18 charger. I'll probably upgrade it to the faster charger if I get the miter saw.

 

[mrblaine]

I'm still impressed by the multiple multislot chargers you have going on. I just have the single M12/M18 charger. I'll probably upgrade it to the faster charger if I get the miter saw.

I said 40 but thinking about it, it could be more or less. I keep a battery in most of the tools and I quit counting at 60 but some of those are woodworking tools so not in those. I don't keep one in the table saw, miter saw, or any of the circular saws, the router, jigsaw, spare Sawzall, or Hole Hawg. I should count sometime but then I'd have to gather them all up and I'm not that interested.

 

[Blackjack]

It's okay to be willingly behind the times but the comment of "if you can find them?" means you are about as far behind as the Amish. Milwaukee isn't going anywhere any time soon. They have 200 tools in the their M18 line up alone.

View attachment 308301


You really need to get out more. The vast majority of my battery tools are lighter than their equivalent corded counterpart. That and the comparison is highly invalid since I have never seen a corded 1/4" impact driver. There may be one, I'd like to see it if there is.

While maybe not that old, I have Milwaukee corded 1/2" drive Hole Shooters that I did construction with and even a Milwaukee 7" full metal case grinder with a cord. That dumb thing is so big and heavy I may as well donate it to a museum since I will never use it again.

This. We are not talking about Sears and their habit of changing battery platforms every four years. With Milwaukee continuing to move into additional work disciplines they are not going anywhere with this battery platform anytime soon.

 

[Zorba]

It's okay to be willingly behind the times but the comment of "if you can find them?" means you are about as far behind as the Amish. Milwaukee isn't going anywhere any time soon. They have 200 tools in the their M18 line up alone.

That's not exactly my intended point. I've heard stories from multiple people: They buy a (brand name) tool or set of tools, with extra batteries. 5 years later (or whatever), the mfg no longer makes the batteries for those tools; they want you to buy all new tools. If - and I say *if* - that's the case, that's a merry go round I refuse to get on. That's smartphone bullshit thinking. Never mind that I don't want to keep buying batteries in the first place, but when the mfg purposely obsoletes batteries in 5 or 10 years - or even 15 or 20 - that's not my idea of a good time. I'm waaaay too cheep for that!

I was always "that guy" where I worked that mgmt and co-workers always came to to do certain tasks because I was taught that way 20 years ago, and I was still doing it "that way" when everybody else had forgotten. I therefore was the only person who even could do the job. The 115 VAC outlet has been around since what? The late 1800s? My father's 1/2 inch Thor drill - as featured in another thread here - is at least 80 years old, perhaps 90. That's the way it should be; will Milwaukee still make battery packs for their current models 80 years from now? Or even 20? 10?

It just doesn't make sense to me to use battery powered tools when a socket is available. That's me - obviously many think otherwise. My son-in-law lives and dies by battery tools and is flabberghasted that I'm not interested. I've borrowed his tools once or twice. You guessed it, the damn battery went dead - and went dead multiple times using a tool for an extended period (hammer drill). So I went to the local pawn shop and picked up a corded hammer drill that was almost brand new for $40, plugged it in and got my job finished.

 

[Zorba]

This. We are not talking about Sears and their habit of changing battery platforms every four years. With Milwaukee continuing to move into additional work disciplines they are not going anywhere with this battery platform anytime soon.

Define "anytime soon". It had better be at LEAST 20 years, preferably 50.

 

[Lou]

Define "anytime soon". It had better be at LEAST 20 years, preferably 50.

I really hope your mindset isnt around in 50 years.

 

[toximus]

Milwaukee is releasing newer more powerful versions of their batteries. Some tools aren't backwards compatible and still have full power (namely the table and miter saw, maybe the angle grinder too). But the batteries are backwards compatible.

That's less due to trying to get you to buy new batteries and more due to scientific improvements in battery technology that wasn't around 5 years ago.

The M12 batteries also have lots of quality 3rd party manufactures making replacements too.

On that note, I would avoid brands like Harbor Freight for cordless tools because I don't have faith in them that they'll still be using the same batteries in 5 years.

 

[toximus]

That's not exactly my intended point. I've heard stories from multiple people: They buy a (brand name) tool or set of tools, with extra batteries. 5 years later (or whatever), the mfg no longer makes the batteries for those tools; they want you to buy all new tools. If - and I say *if* - that's the case, that's a merry go round I refuse to get on. That's smartphone bullshit thinking. Never mind that I don't want to keep buying batteries in the first place, but when the mfg purposely obsoletes batteries in 5 or 10 years - or even 15 or 20 - that's not my idea of a good time. I'm waaaay too cheep for that!

I was always "that guy" where I worked that mgmt and co-workers always came to to do certain tasks because I was taught that way 20 years ago, and I was still doing it "that way" when everybody else had forgotten. I therefore was the only person who even could do the job. The 115 VAC outlet has been around since what? The late 1800s? My father's 1/2 inch Thor drill - as featured in another thread here - is at least 80 years old, perhaps 90. That's the way it should be; will Milwaukee still make battery packs for their current models 80 years from now? Or even 20? 10?

It just doesn't make sense to me to use battery powered tools when a socket is available. That's me - obviously many think otherwise. My son-in-law lives and dies by battery tools and is flabberghasted that I'm not interested. I've borrowed his tools once or twice. You guessed it, the damn battery went dead - and went dead multiple times using a tool for an extended period (hammer drill). So I went to the local pawn shop and picked up a corded hammer drill that was almost brand new for $40, plugged it in and got my job finished.

If cost is the biggest factor in making a tool purchase I agree that used 110v tools from the pawn shop are going to be your best option.

 

[Blackjack]

Define "anytime soon". It had better be at LEAST 20 years, preferably 50.

I would not count on 50 but they are 12 years in and still adding to the line.

 

[roverhi]

Have not had great luck with the Milwaukee 12v batteries though have owned some of the tools for close to 15 years. All the batteries that came with my original purchase in the 2,000 era have died. Later batteries have not had a problem. The 18v batteries have been pretty reliable except one glaringly painful battery from a hedge trimmer. That battery died after a couple years of little very intermittent use. Tried to get it covered under warranty but got the runaround from the local Milwaukee rep trying to prove date of purchase. Be aware that Home Depot doesn't keep records longer than 18months so keep your receipts on these batteries and tools. It got to be such a hassle that I gave up after spending way too much time going up the corporate chain to get Milwaukee to replace the $270 battery.

The aftermarket batteries on Amazon aren't worth a damn. Have bought a couple M12 batteries that look similar to the Milwaukee product but aren't. One set didn't quite fit in the tools and would either shake loose and lose contact without constant attention or took brute force to remove. One set just plain failed in less than a year.

In Milwaukee's defense tools that are going on 15 years old work with the new batteries. The newer batteries have much better technology that are lighter and/or longer running and all are backward compatible. Think the big complaint on battery/tool obsolescence was the translation from NiCad to Lithium technology. NiCad technology sucked and not sorry to have replaced those tools with Lithium technology.

Recently had to use some of my old corded wood working tools and dealing with cords was a pain. Numerous times got tangled in the cord or tripped over the cord pulling the tools off the bench. Good thing those tools are stout and could live through bouncing off a concrete floor. Stilll brought back good memories using my Milwaukee 1/4" drill that helped me build a 32' sailboat in 1974.

We're moving and the compressor won't come with us so looking at battery impact wrench in our new home. The heavy duty impact wrenches pricey and large while the medium duty tools are lighter and compact. Wondering if 600 lb wrench will suffice or do you need 1200 lb????

 

[Pokahpolice]

It just doesn't make sense to me to use battery powered tools when a socket is available. That's me - obviously many think otherwise. My son-in-law lives and dies by battery tools and is flabberghasted that I'm not interested. I've borrowed his tools once or twice. You guessed it, the damn battery went dead - and went dead multiple times using a tool for an extended period (hammer drill). So I went to the local pawn shop and picked up a corded hammer drill that was almost brand new for $40, plugged it in and got my job finished.

How hard is it to swap out a battery? It literally takes 5 seconds. 30 seconds if the walk to the charger is 25 seconds away. You keep one on the charger and one in the tool. It really is that simple. To complain about the battery management but be willing to go get an extension cord, unravel the thing, plug it in, then take care of the cord after but not be willing to swap out a battery and keep one on the charger makes absolutely no sense. You act like a battery gives you 20mins of working time. It’s been said several times, these aren’t our grandfathers batteries. The power and hours you get with today’s tools are vastly improved.

 

[Mike_H]

Add me to the list of guys who have really old Milwaukee stuff, still going strong. I got my first m18 lithium drill and 1/4 impact driver at least 12 years ago. I have four batteries in rotation. I've replaced 1 in all that time. I need a couple more of the 5 ahr ones. They get used, a lot. I have a few DeWalt tools too, but I like my Milwaukee stuff better. Probably just personal preference.