Reloading for the rest of us

Someone give me a lesson on crimping. Cannelure, roll crimping and taper crimping. According to my Lyman manual, any ammo to be used in revolvers or tubular magazines needs to be crimped. So, choosing between roll crimping or taper crimping. I gather from the manual that roll crimping is used with a canelured projectile while taper crimping is used with a non-canelured? Benefits of either? I assume you need different dies to do a roll crimp and a taper crimp, so I've got to decide on a die and bullet type and stick with it? What is this "factory crimp" die I keep hearing about?
 
It will definitely be lighter duty and may be shorter lived (still long for your average shooter) The only other thing I could see that could be an issue is it may not be quite as consistent in seating depth. I know my dad's Lee single stage ended up getting used for depriming only. It was just a little looser feeling. The RCBS is a lot more solid feeling. It looks like Hornaday is making some really nice turret presses these days.

Northwood said:
Someone give me a lesson on crimping. Cannelure, roll crimping and taper crimping. According to my Lyman manual, any ammo to be used in revolvers or tubular magazines needs to be crimped. So, choosing between roll crimping or taper crimping. I gather from the manual that roll crimping is used with a canelured projectile while taper crimping is used with a non-canelured? Benefits of either? I assume you need different dies to do a roll crimp and a taper crimp, so I've got to decide on a die and bullet type and stick with it? What is this "factory crimp" die I keep hearing about?
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I think a taper crimp is required for rimless cartridges where they use the end of the case to set the depth in the chamber. Where on a revolver they use the head of case to set the depth the cartridge loads into the chamber. (I'm probably not the best to answer this though, I've been out of reloading for a few years. I tend to go though hobbies like candy. I study like hell when I'm into it but then have to relearn a lot later)
 
I may have answered my own question looking through the load data for 357. Seems every projectile suggested in the Lyman manual is canelured. Not whay I found when searching online for 357 projectiles, but the interwebs can be deceiving I guess. So is the selection of the crimp die not as important as i thought?
 
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Northwood said:
I may have answered my own question looking through the load data for 357. Seems every projectile suggested in the Lyman manual is canelured. Not whay I found when searching online for 357 projectiles, but the interwebs can be deceiving I guess. So is the selection of the crimp die not as important as i thought?
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Not every projectile has a canelure, and not every projectile of a given weight and diameter is suitable for a particular cartridge.
As has been mentioned, You'll find three distinct crimp dies and three distinct crimps.. Roll crimps, taper crimps and the Lee Factory crimp.
Taper crimps are used on cartridges that headspaces on the case mouth. Examples would be 45 ACP, 10mm, 9mm, etc.
Roll crimps actually roll material at the case mouth into the canelure in a radius. Examples would be 45 Colt, 357 / 38 Special, 45-70, etc.
The Factory Crimp uses a die that has a collet type setup and actually squeezes the case mouth onto the bullet. Where the crimp is placed is set a the factory, and cannot be adjusted, though the amount of crimp can be.
If the load recipe calls for a crimp, it will specify which type and usually give an indication like "Hard Crimp", "Easy Crimp", "Light Crimp". Magnum handgun loads usually require a pretty firm roll crimp with the case mouth rolled well into the bullet's canelure. Light loads in magnum handguns do not require as much crimp. Try to use only as much crimp as is required to keep the bullet in place during the firing cycle. Over crimping and hot loads measurably decrease the lifespan of a cartridge case. If a case is too long, or to oshort, the crimp will be wrong, a long case give you too hard of a crimp and a short case gives you too shallow of a crimp.

This brings up another topic. Case length. Cases will grow in length over time and repeated firings. Some more than others. Case length should be checked periodically to make sure that the case falls within spec. If it grows to long, it can be trimmed to length with specialized trimming tools. They are actually pretty cheap.

Bullets: You can purchase a bullet of the correct diameter and length, with a canalure and it may still be the wrong bullet for your application. Some of the issues are it may have a canalure, but it is in the wrong location. The bullet jacket may be too strong, or not strong enough. The shape of the nose may be wrong and not feed correctly, though this is an auto loader thing mostly.
 
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xxdabroxx said:
I think the lee press may be the rough country of reloading though. It will work, but it won't be the best. My dad started on a lee single stage, moved up to a RCBS rock chucker (still used for rifle rounds) then when we got into shooting around 1k rounds a month we got the Dillon.

If you are using a single stage to produce a lot of rifle rounds the RCBS charge master works pretty good in my experience. Kinda nice to have something measure out the charges for you.
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I've had absolutely no issues with my Lee equipment, presses or dies. The other manufacturers have more stout presses, but I don't think anyone should shy away from Lee because they don't cost BIG bucks, especially if they are not loading thousands of rounds a week.
 
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egclassic said:
I've had absolutely no issues with my Lee equipment, presses or dies. The other manufacturers have more stout presses, but I don't think anyone should shy away from Lee because they don't cost BIG bucks, especially if they are not loading thousands of rounds a week.
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Lee is good kit. They do feel different than the cast iron and cast steel presses when you use them. Lighter and not as solid. But, even though they are lighter, and feel it, they are just as solid. Lee gear works just fine though despite what they feel like. The only thing I don't like that Lee makes is their bullet casting molds. Even those aren't bad, you just have to fiddle with them to get them to work correctly most of the time. But that's a subject for another thread at another time.
 
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StG58 said:
Lee is good kit. They do feel different than the cast iron and cast steel presses when you use them. Lighter and not as solid. But, even though they are lighter, and feel it, they are just as solid. Lee gear works just fine though despite what they feel like. The only thing I don't like that Lee makes is their bullet casting molds. Even those aren't bad, you just have to fiddle with them to get them to work correctly most of the time. But that's a subject for another thread at another time.
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I've ordered the Lee classic turret kit, their 4 die set (only 5 bucks more than the 3 die set) and a Lyman 1200 pro vibratory tumbler. Now on the hunt for brass, powder, and bullets. Do you guys have any good online sources out there, or should I look around locally? The few sources I've looked at online don't seem to be cheap at all for bullets. Looking for the Hornady JHP 158 gr and the best I've found online is about $18 for 100 which doesn't seem like an awesome deal. Maybe I'll have to start casting sooner than I had thought!
 
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Northwood said:
I've ordered the Lee classic turret kit, their 4 die set (only 5 bucks more than the 3 die set) and a Lyman 1200 pro vibratory tumbler. Now on the hunt for brass, powder, and bullets. Do you guys have any good online sources out there, or should I look around locally? The few sources I've looked at online don't seem to be cheap at all for bullets. Looking for the Hornady JHP 158 gr and the best I've found online is about $18 for 100 which doesn't seem like an awesome deal. Maybe I'll have to start casting sooner than I had thought!
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Try Here: http://www.tjconevera.com/ i buy a lot from him.
You will probably need to buy powder and primers locally as Hazmat fees make it too expensive to buy online. Powder and primers were very hard to find anywhere until about a year ago. After that last shortage (Hoarding) I stocked up.
 
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Alright fellas, here's the load I've chosen for my 357 Rossi 92
20170405_163209.jpg
20170405_163010.jpg

I decided I might as well try the accurate #9 powder as they have that marked as their most accurate load. I've located the bullet and powder, but nowhere in the city had the CCI 550 small pistol magnum primers. I did find some Winchester small pistol magnum primers. @StG58 you mentioned the primer manufacturer possibly having a drastic effect on the performance of the load, and not to stray from the loads given. Should I go ahead with the Winchester primers or try to order CCI's online and probably pay some ungodly charge for hazmat?
 
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Northwood said:
Alright fellas, here's the load I've chosen for my 357 Rossi 92
View attachment 13796 View attachment 13797
I decided I might as well try the accurate #9 powder as they have that marked as their most accurate load. I've located the bullet and powder, but nowhere in the city had the CCI 550 small pistol magnum primers. I did find some Winchester small pistol magnum primers. @StG58 you mentioned the primer manufacturer possibly having a drastic effect on the performance of the load, and not to stray from the loads given. Should I go ahead with the Winchester primers or try to order CCI's online and probably pay some ungodly charge for hazmat?
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Looks like a good load to start with in the Rossi. Go ahead and grab some Winchester primers, BUT, start one half grain above the minimum load. Look online and double check that those Hornady bullets are either flat point or hollow point bullets. That's an absolute requirement for a tubular magazine.

Winchester primers are a little "hotter" than the CCI primers, so stay under the max published load. The hotter primer will build pressure faster, and it may effect your potential accuracy some. It should be a safe and workable load though.

Start at 13.7 grains and go no higher than 14.3 grains until you know how the load is going to react in your rifle. Take a close up picture on the primer after you shoot a few and let's take a look at what you have going on.
 
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StG58 said:
Looks like a good load to start with in the Rossi. Go ahead and grab some Winchester primers, BUT, start one half grain above the minimum load. Look online and double check that those Hornady bullets are either flat point or hollow point bullets. That's an absolute requirement for a tubular magazine.

Winchester primers are a little "hotter" than the CCI primers, so stay under the max published load. The hotter primer will build pressure faster, and it may effect your potential accuracy some. It should be a safe and workable load though.

Start at 13.7 grains and go no higher than 14.3 grains until you know how the load is going to react in your rifle. Take a close up picture on the primer after you shoot a few and let's take a look at what you have going on.
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They are indeed hollow point. For discussions sake, since it will be next week before I get all my shit in the mail and can shoot, what will you be looking for on a fired primer and what will it tell you?
Are there clear signs of a load too hot for a particular application, short of blowing up? How would one know how the load reacts in the rifle?

StG58 said:
Accurate #9 is a ball powder as well, so it should respond well to a slightly hotter primer.
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What is a ball powder?
 
Flattened primers will tell you a load is too hot. Also, in extreme cases the primer can come loose. Just stay under Max and you should be fine.
Ball powders are just that, small spherical balls, sort of the consistency of sand,, just a little bigger. Ball powders measure much better than flake type powders, but most of the pistol powders I use, are flake type. Hp-38 is a very versatile powder too if you can find it.

You might consider picking one of these up:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/HODG...GAGBrDx26XpW_x7zyWcjUhoCRB7w_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Most places that sell magazines carry it, it has tons of loads, but they obviously favor IMR, Winchester and Hodgdon powders.
 
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Out of curiosity I took a look at Accurate power's website and their load data and found that it is wayy different from the load I found in the load handbook as far as min and max load.
20170405_175203.png

Same bullets same powder. The accurate powder website used Winchester small pistol magnum primers and winchester cases as opposed to cci small pistol magnum primers and federal cases in the Lyman book.
Accurate powder shows Min 12.4 gr and Max 13.8 gr
Lyman manual shows Min 13.4 gr and Max 14.9 gr8
Wtf
 
Northwood said:
Out of curiosity I took a look at Accurate power's website and their load data and found that it is wayy different from the load I found in the load handbook as far as min and max load.View attachment 13802
Same bullets same powder. The accurate powder website used Winchester small pistol magnum primers and winchester cases as opposed to cci small pistol magnum primers and federal cases in the Lyman book.
Accurate powder shows Min 12.4 gr and Max 13.8 gr
Lyman manual shows Min 13.4 gr and Max 14.9 gr8
Wtf
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Start low and work your way up, looking for signs of over pressure.
I edited my post above to show you a reloading manual that I buy every other year. Now it won't have loads for Accurate powders but it is a handy manual to have on hand.
 
Is one set of data for rifle and one set for pistol? It looks like the first reloading data is from the rifle section of the Lyman Manual, and the second set is pistol data from Accurate. That makes a difference.
 
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