I don't need to re-read what you said, you claimed leaf spring vehicles benefit from antiswaybars in the same way our coil-sprung TJs do and I vehemently disagree with that.
Replacing my TeraFlex front sway bar to stock Mopar?
- Thread starter gg1
- Start date
Then I need you to explain how an antisway bar can stabilise a coil spring. Especially an Antirock that has rod end on either end on the links.
Here is a leaf setup where the builder is interested in controling movement with a antisway bar.
Lest this thread degenerate further into a pissing contest, let's remember what OP asked in Post #1:
I think we can all agree that the answer is "yes."
I think we can all agree that the answer is "yes."
Agreed, it has gotten pretty stupid at this point.Lest this thread degenerate further into a pissing contest, let's remember what OP asked in Post #1:
I think we can all agree that the answer is "yes."
Not to mention rear sways n an XJ. If you take the front off even a XJ gets a little squirmy and it has leaf rears.
I've explained why if anyone would bother to understand... The XJ is actually a good example.
OP
Lest this thread degenerate further into a pissing contest, let's remember what OP asked in Post #1:
I think we can all agree that the answer is "yes."
Thanks. This is really all I needed. I am running without a front sway bar and have the links tied up. It rides fine, but rolls way more. I am an old driver that has driven all kinds of cars from the '50s, 60's and so-on. My Jeep without a front sway bar is okay and I live in an area with a ton of windy lousy pothole filled roads, not to mention some of the steepest roads in the world, not just the USA. Now would I want to keep it the way it is? No. Jerry has it right, but in my case it isn't all that horrible. I just take it easy, sort of. It might be because ALL my suspension parts are new and of the highest quality, (no chinese garbage). That doesn't hurt.
Thanks for all the input. This week I will have the stock stuff on my Jeep and most likely all new. Used isn't much of a savings as I get 20% off from dealers. I don't care about $20 here and there for a 14 year old part vs. new. I'll take the new.
Its probably a matter of the factory control arms vs some high articulation aftermarket ones. I can see where the Factory control arms are "stiffer" side to side than a control arm with a johnny joint in it. The factory stuff needs to flex and the metal has a "spring rate" that will resist motion without a sway bar. Running aftermarket arms, designed to flex with as little binding as possible, will not resist the body roll like the factory ones will. I can see why one would notice a drastic difference...and why Jerry's experience is frightening vs yours being "ok."
Sway bars control sway and nothing else. They minimize body roll by trying to force both sides of an axle to go up and down at the same rate at the same time. For a stock Jeep this will likely help the Jeep spin out before it tips over. As we lift our Jeeps and increase tire size the effectiveness of the sway bar avoiding a roll over is greatly reduced. The roll bars still help the Jeep corner with less body roll.
If you frequently use your Jeep for something like rock crawling where you need high articulation the sway bars work to your disadvantage. My Jeep does double duty so I connect my front sway bar for crawling and reconnect it for street use. Like many others I choose not to run a rear sway bar for convenience understanding I am giving up some street stability and decreasing the safety of the vehicle. I drive it with full knowledge of the probability of rollover if a high speed evasive maneuver were to be attempted. I still feel the Jeep is safer than a motorcycle but it needs to be operated with care.
If you frequently use your Jeep for something like rock crawling where you need high articulation the sway bars work to your disadvantage. My Jeep does double duty so I connect my front sway bar for crawling and reconnect it for street use. Like many others I choose not to run a rear sway bar for convenience understanding I am giving up some street stability and decreasing the safety of the vehicle. I drive it with full knowledge of the probability of rollover if a high speed evasive maneuver were to be attempted. I still feel the Jeep is safer than a motorcycle but it needs to be operated with care.
Correct. And of equal importantance in the case of the Antirock, they work to keep the body centered between the articulating axles.
You might be surprised how much better the Jeep crawls rocks when fully connected with a softer front like the AR.
OP
AR looks very similar to TeraFlex in design. I have no interest in any system like that. Way over the top. I will stick to a stock setup that will move more for a better ride. It rides like a dream with everything up there disconnected I have to say. Like a Caddy. lol
X2, exactly. Keeping the front & rear axles working together instead of fighting each other like using an Antirock up front and having no antiswaybar in the rear wouldn't allow the suspension to work as well as it would with a rear antiswaybar. That's what I run for rock crawling... an Antirock up front and a rear antiswaybar.
This is a very hotly debated issue where folks tend to be very opinionated. We have front and rear antirocks on the Ultra 4 cars I work on but we don't run them on our rock crawlers. In my opinion it really depends on the particular suspension setup and the trail, sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. While I like Antirocks for many applications it should be understood they are one element in a package, maybe better in one case, maybe not in another. I am sure there have been times where it would have helped me on one obstacle and hurt me on the next, lots of variables...
The way a TJ axle is setup the arms form a parallelogram box with some torsional rigidity, for it to move up on one side and down on the other is must deflect the rubber in the link bushings or flex the axle mount so this gives it some resistance to sway even when the bar is disconnected. This became very apparent recently when I was cycling my front suspension setting up the bump stops in my front end. A three link, Y link or a four link with one telescoping arm does not have this resistance to sway. The antirock can replace the sway resistance or add more sway control on one of those, it can also add adjustability/control by changing the effective arm length. I am also curious about the dual rate sway control devices using co-axial rods and tubes where two different levels of sway control mode can be easily selected (street/crawl).
I am still relatively new to the Jeeping and crawling world with a Jeep that is an ongoing work in progress. Keeping an open mind, sifting through info provided to determine what is best is always a challenge.
Just to add to your post, the factory arms can actually twist a bit to help with articulation. That is why they are not fully boxed.
X2. While the TJ control arms look to have a weak and poor design, the opposite is actually true... engineers would call the design "elegant" for its simplicity and ability to provide structural strength together with flexibility where needed at a low cost. Not many designs can claim all of those benefits.
OP
So a follow up on me riding without a front sway bar. Some idiot cut me off in a very aggressive manner and it created a situation that I had to negotiate a curve in the road at a speed that wasn't going to happen. I hit the brakes and tried to turn enough, but was out of room. My only option was drive into the grassy area ahead that thankfully wasn't protected with a guardrail. I am not saying, I could possibly have hit the brakes even harder, but I took the route that was a guaranteed one. When hitting the brakes hard and trying to turn the front twisted and my tires didn't care for that amount of weight on one side. I suspect this situation would have been much more controlled with a sway bar since both tires would have shared some of the burden to a point. Sway bar should be in place this coming week and my Jeep is going to be sitting anyway because I am driving my car for a bit. An interesting morning for sure.
gg1 said:
Mr. Bills said:
gg1 said:I have a sway bar in the rear. Just no front, so no big deal.
Mr. Bills said:
gg1 said:
One of the perks of being an old fart is the acquired skill of acting prophetic and wise while saying "I told you so."
Just kidding. I'm glad you weren't hurt.
Blank
TJ Enthusiast