Slick rock 4-wheeling technique question

Does your Jeep steer alright with the lockers in? Only reason I unlock is so I can steer more easily and relax a little more while going through the trail. I could drive around with my lockers in if I wanted to, but it would be a little more work. I only found I needed my lockers 3-4 times through all of hells revenge. Just seems a little odd to me to leave them on all day when I only needed them a couple times.
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I’m with you on this one, can’t imagine leaving my rear elocker on the entire day on the trail. Works great for me when crawling on obstacles but the jeep handles so much better with it off.
 
No reason to unlock on slickrock that I can figure. Everyone is going slow anyway. Where are you going?

A Jeep goes through Hell’s Revenge in 3-5 hours. A motorcyle in 27-29 minutes. If you want to go faster and have easier steering, get a motorcycle.
Not everyone drives slow. We like to drive at a pretty good clip. With my daughter and exploring/pee breaks I think we did the triple trail in 4 to 5 hours.
 
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Unless you have a front locker, there isn't any reason you'd have to put it in 2wd just to turn as it turns the same in 4wd as 2wd, if the diffs are open.

So how is that possible without a center differential? Is it just a function of the Wrangler's short wheelbase? If I'm making a turn in 4WD with solid traction (like pavement) on all four tires I can feel it start to bind up. The shorter wheelbase makes sense though as the tracks of both axles are much closer to one another.
 
So how is that possible without a center differential? Is it just a function of the Wrangler's short wheelbase? If I'm making a turn in 4WD with solid traction (like pavement) on all four tires I can feel it start to bind up. The shorter wheelbase makes sense though as the tracks of both axles are much closer to one another.

Part of the hang up is from the cognitive dissonance between what we think we know to be true and what reality is. Yes, there is binding that will occur. Yes, the tires will occasionally hop and skip and squeal. The power steering's bypass valve might sound cranky when it does it's job. But the Jeep isn't fragile and will handle the stress just fine. It's similar to my assertion that the locked front diff is not where most of the inability to steer comes from. Most assume it to be the opposite.
 
This is a pretty interesting thread.

We have no slickrock that I'm aware of anywhere near me so I looked up what it is. Apparently it's rock with a sandpaper texture, (sandstone?) and metal horse shoes would slip on the rock's sloping surfaces so early settlers called it "slickrock".

Considering it's nothing like mud, how necessary is a locked differential when driving on slickrock?

Is it worse when it rains and how often does it rain there?

Studded snow tires cut into ice. I wonder if they would cut into the slickrock and gain traction or would the metal studs slip like the metal horse shoes. HMMM...
 
Part of the hang up is from the cognitive dissonance between what we think we know to be true and what reality is. Yes, there is binding that will occur. Yes, the tires will occasionally hop and skip and squeal. The power steering's bypass valve might sound cranky when it does it's job. But the Jeep isn't fragile and will handle the stress just fine. It's similar to my assertion that the locked front diff is not where most of the inability to steer comes from. Most assume it to be the opposite.

I mean I guess. When I hear and feel the tires hopping, skipping and squealing and sense the binding in the transfer case between the front and rear axles my tendency would be to drop into 2WD to relieve it. Cognitive dissonance is a real fancy way to describe me not wanting my shit to break on top of a rock two miles into a trail.

Considering it's nothing like mud, how necessary is a locked differential when driving on slickrock?

Excellent question. I don't think it comes into play until you're dangling a wheel in the air and still need that axle to do stuff. There's plenty of that on the more difficult trails in that area.
 
It's similar to my assertion that the locked front diff is not where most of the inability to steer comes from. Most assume it to be the opposite.

Ive read this thread a couple of times now. Where does the inability to steer come from then? Maybe I need another cup of coffee..
 
Ive read this thread a couple of times now. Where does the inability to steer come from then? Maybe I need another cup of coffee..

The rear, mostly.

The locked rear has no differential action, so the locked tires will push the vehicle straight forward in line with the wheels.

The locked front also has no differential action, but the steering will still pull the front end in the direction of turned the wheels.

When the rear is unlocked, allowing the rear differential, the locked front will let the Jeep steer again.

My last trip to Moab was done with only the front locker, which I never unlocked. Steering was never an issue. When I get my rear fixed, we'll go for a drive now that I have independent F/R control. It's pretty interesting. Having learned this almost by accident, it's even more interesting to me that ARB, Jeep, and likely others require us to lock the rear first before the front.
 
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My last trip to Moab was done with only the front locker, which I never unlocked. Steering was never an issue. When I get my rear fixed, we'll go for a drive now that I have independent F/R control. It's pretty interesting. Having learned this almost by accident, it's even more interesting to me that ARB, Jeep, and likely others require is to lock the rear first before the front.

Interesting. I need to research it just a bit more.

I might need to look into the ARB bypass mod, I always thought they were able to be operated independently until I finally installed my front ARB in 2017. I was a bit disappointed
 
John Currie agrees with me, too. :)

If mine wasn't a daily driver and snowy streets wasn't a reality, having a Detroit front and selectable rear sounds very appealing.
 
Your paranoia comes from the idiots claiming armageddon if you leave it in 4WD on the highway. Pure bullshit. The ONLY time you will regret leaving it in 4WD is in the winter as you try to park between 2 cars at the mall........ and it pushes you straight into a parked BMW.... lol.

That and turning into a parking lot in the winter, click into 2WD when 4WD might push you past the entry.

But the Wrangler 4WD system is plenty tough to stay in 4WD all day.

As a trucker, when fully loaded with like 40,000# on the difs, I would unlock when maneuvering. Mostly because it'll just skid the front tires and keep going straight.
 
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All this talk about coming out of 4wd, turning off lockers, possibly messing up your shit if you don’t, blah blah blah. Nonsense, that’s what I think.
 
I'm not worried about breaking anything if I leave my Jeep in 4lo and the lockers turned on. I leave my Jeep in 4wd all day when off-roading and put it back in 2wd when I hit pavement.

What no one has answered yet is WHY you would leave your lockers on when you don't need them. It just makes life harder. I could drive around with my lockers on all day out in Moab, but what is the point? It just makes the Jeep harder to turn. If I come up to an obstacle where I think I need my lockers, I flip two switches and almost instantly I'm locked in and ready to go.

If you want to work your way through tight switchbacks on a shelf road locked up, be my guest, but I just don't understand it.
 
Ill stay in 4lo all day unless there is a long, easy stretch that I can speed up on. I leave the ARBs unlocked until I need them.
 
I think it's important to add two things to this thread; 1) I have seen numerous times people "think" their lockers were on and they weren't. They then realized it and yelled out the window, "It might help if I had my lockers on." 2) I have also seen situations where people "thought" they didn't need lockers and they got in trouble. These are not always safe situations to drive out of/recover from. I have seen breakage because of this too. I have only been wheeling for 2 years.
 
I'm not worried about breaking anything if I leave my Jeep in 4lo and the lockers turned on. I leave my Jeep in 4wd all day when off-roading and put it back in 2wd when I hit pavement.

What no one has answered yet is WHY you would leave your lockers on when you don't need them. It just makes life harder. I could drive around with my lockers on all day out in Moab, but what is the point? It just makes the Jeep harder to turn. If I come up to an obstacle where I think I need my lockers, I flip two switches and almost instantly I'm locked in and ready to go.

If you want to work your way through tight switchbacks on a shelf road locked up, be my guest, but I just don't understand it.
I worked the tight switchbacks on a shelf road at Elephant Hill near Moab with my front and rear lockers on. The switchbacks are so tight that on one switchback that the designated route is not to make the turn but simply go forward and complete the next straightaway backwards. The others are pretty tight too, but I think I had only one 2-point turn. Of course, you can turn yours off if you want to. I'm just reporting.

I think the answer to WHY is because 1) you don't always KNOW when you will need them (not all lines are intuitive. many are counter-intuitive, especially when in new-to-you terrain) and 2) sometimes you THINK they are on when they are not and 3) then you might be in trouble and not prepared for a safe recovery, and 4) yes, I have seen breakage when this occurred.
 
I worked the tight switchbacks on a shelf road at Elephant Hill near Moab with my front and rear lockers on. The switchbacks are so tight that on one switchback that the designated route is not to make the turn but simply go forward and complete the next straightaway backwards. The others are pretty tight too, but I think I had only one 2-point turn. Of course, you can turn yours off if you want to. I'm just reporting.

I think the answer to WHY is because 1) you don't always KNOW when you will need them (not all lines are intuitive. many are counter-intuitive, especially when in new-to-you terrain) and 2) sometimes you THINK they are on when they are not and 3) then you might be in trouble and not prepared for a safe recovery, and 4) yes, I have seen breakage when this occurred.

I feel like I have enough experience to know when to turn my lockers on. I've wheeled through Moab a few times and at a bunch of off-road parks without issue. And even if I didn't turn my lockers on, I would simply back up and try again. If you come up to an obstacle without your lockers on and break the Jeep because of it, I would say you probably weren't experienced enough to take on that obstacle in the first place.

I also feel like I'm experienced enough to know when my lockers are on. When my front locker stopped working in Moab a few years ago, I could instantly tell that I wasn't fully locked up.

I do feel like there are a few downsides (besides turning) to leaving the lockers on as well. For one, my ARB pump would have to pressurize the system all day if I kept my lockers on. While the pump only runs for a bit every 10 minutes or so to keep the pressure up, it is unneeded wear.

At the end of day, there isn't one correct way to go wheeling. What doesn't make much sense to me might work perfectly fine for you. People wheel with welded front and rear diffs all the time and seem to do just fine, even if I wouldn't want to do it that way. It is all personal preference.
 
John Currie agrees with me, too. :)

If mine wasn't a daily driver and snowy streets wasn't a reality, having a Detroit front and selectable rear sounds very appealing.
When I move north to WA state, I'm probably going to have to switch out my PowerTrax No Slip up front for a selectable Eaton like my rear due to snow and ice. At the same time, some have reported that they learned to drive safely with the PowerTrax up front in the snow and ice. They say it is simply taking the time to adjust to the behavior of the front end, since it won't disengage when turning without traction, and wants to push straight ahead. IDK, I haven't done this myself.

I agree with John and he not only explains but shows how the front is not the issue in turning radius, but the rear. Somewhat counterintuitive but makes sense when you think it through.
 
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