So far not impressed with Johnny Joints

i'm trying to follow the trail.
that statement leads me to believe that 100% of the expected deflection during articulation will come from a singular end and no force will be shared through the arm to the other joint.
It'll be shared fairly evenly between both ends if both ends have the same joints in them.
 
i'm trying to follow the trail.
that statement leads me to believe that 100% of the expected deflection during articulation will come from a singular end and no force will be shared through the arm to the other joint.

Think of a heim joint vs a rubber cleavite bushing. That is the type of thing you are trying to compare. Note the use of the words joint and bushing. If you don't understand this, then you need to study the differences between the Johnny Joint and the Duraflex bushing.

In your case, both ends by themselves are fully capable of supporting the misalignment caused by a 12" travel shock. The JJ will simply move along with the suspension. The DF bushing will need to stretch to achieve that movement. However, the JJ will misalign long before the DF feels the need to deflect. The only action that the DF bushing will do is rotate in the mount and misalign a bit side to side from the track bar shift.

The only way to get the DF bushing to do it's share is the work is to use a second DF bushing or a bonded rubber cleavite bushing.
 
Think of a heim joint vs a rubber cleavite bushing. That is the type of thing you are trying to compare. Note the use of the words joint and bushing. If you don't understand this, then you need to study the differences between the Johnny Joint and the Duraflex bushing.

In your case, both ends by themselves are fully capable of supporting the misalignment caused by a 12" travel shock. The JJ will simply move along with the suspension. The DF bushing will need to stretch to achieve that movement. However, the JJ will misalign long before the DF feels the need to deflect. The only action that the DF bushing will do is rotate in the mount and misalign a bit side to side from the track bar shift.

The only way to get the DF bushing to do it's share is the work is to use a second DF bushing or a bonded rubber cleavite bushing.

thank you.........PERFECT explanation, this 1 i can completely understand.
and this i can also equate to offset deflection at similar forces, would not be similar.
the rubber is gonna always pull back or fight the motion the JJ is free to move within its space
 
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thank you.........PERFECT explanation, this 1 i can completely understand.
and this i can also equate to offset deflection at similar forces, would not be similar.
the rubber is gonna always pull back or fight the motion the JJ is free to move within its space

Good. Now think about which is better suited to do what is being asked. Is it the one that simply moves around to where it needs to go, or the one the needs to stretch and deflect from it's neutral resting position?
 
it's no comparison as you've all tried to convince me this whole time.
how could i favor/choose a joint that fights the motion i need to occur.


I SEE THE LIGHT!
 
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....
how could i favor/choose a joint that fights the motion i need to occur.


I SEE THE LIGHT!

It really is that simple. :)

To be somewhat fair, the movement likely isn't going to be restricted by the bushings once a 4000lb Jeep is added to the equation. But why have that resistance to movement if it isn't serving a purpose.
 
i agree, i could survive it, it'would not be a huge hindrance. maybe it's not "top of the list" but it's on the list now.

i've already exceeded what others have told me is very ambitious for the travel capabilities of our TJ's. and the argument is legitimate with me potentially expecting a liitle more from the joints than most ask of them.

the exaggerated limits should be met with minimal resistance and an equally shared load between ends.
 
What you'll get with JJs on both ends is a pair of joints that are free to move as needed. Two will misalign far more than is ever needed or even physically possible. The greased and preloaded bearing surfaces is very robust and long lasting. The preloaded races are far more important than most understand. And, while it (thankfully) hasn't been brought up, the poly races provide more than sufficient isolation from the road where that matters.
 
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Put a MC arm on a vise and articulate the joints, then do the same to a Currie arm with JJ's. The amount of resistance that the Duroflex bushing has is pretty much the same. For me, it comes down to ease of maintenance.
 
Put a MC arm on a vise and articulate the joints, then do the same to a Currie arm with JJ's. The amount of resistance that the Duroflex bushing has is pretty much the same. For me, it comes down to ease of maintenance.

When checking clearances with a floor jack, cycling an axle with JJs is noticably easier and freer than an axle with DF bushings. Again, I don't know how much this matters on the trail with the full vehicle weight working against the suspension, but in my experiences I can't say they are pretty much the same in terms of resistance to movement.
 
When checking clearances with a floor jack, cycling an axle with JJs is noticably easier and freer than an axle with DF bushings. Again, I don't know how much this matters on the trail with the full vehicle weight working against the suspension, but in my experiences I can't say they are pretty much the same in terms of resistance to movement.

I don't think it matters much either, so again, it comes down to ease of maintenance for me. All I need is a hammer, a vise, and a set of snap ring pliars, oh and magical grease.
 
gentlemen, i feel i owe everyone an apology over my intrusion into this thread.

in my haste to attempt to help, i picked up the wrong pieces when i went to inspect 1.
and most of my end of what turned into a joint performance debate is ignorance and misinformation.

it truly was an honest mistake ( i grabbed the wrong joint to reference), but i understand the ramifications of misinformation and will do my best to avoid this in the future.

TBH i didn't even recall buying additional joints other than JJ's, it was a total CRS moment.
 
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I had some Currie JJ races that have been overgreased. As Mr.Blaine says, it extrudes polyurethane out of the washer. I found a lot of these when I rebuilt a used set of arms. I ended up putting rebuild kits in all the joints. Even as "bad" as these were, the person originally running these arms hadn't noticed a degradation of performance. I probably could have used them, but I just decided to replace them for peace of mind.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/my-04-rubicon-build.4191/page-20#post-336954


1592248167735.png
 
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Helpful post... I couldn't get grease into my new control arm JJs and thought I was crazy. After some clickity clackin on the old Google machine it's good to find out its a common theme with them.