It doesn't need to be that way. And those of us who have achieve it are not using the springs to tune the ride.
Spring Rate Effect On Ride Quality
- Thread starter TJim
- Start date
It doesn't need to be that way. And those of us who have achieve it are not using the springs to tune the ride.
I don't fully disagree with the sentiment but generally if something is good, then going the same direction but further should be better which means to improve the ride quality of a stock height rig, we should lower it. That brings in a host of other issues in that the tuning range for the damper gets very small. Very small ranges require a large increase in damping because there isn't much time for the shock to do its job. It has to slow down the tire movement in a short distance or the suspension will just be hitting the jounce bumper at every road event. The consequence of that will be a much firmer ride quality perception.
I tried to pay attention driving through out pothole ridden streets to work.
A lot of what I felt was side to side. I could see better shocks slowing this motion. It was also easy to see the affect of a solid axle. Hitting a rough patch on the passenger side transfered to driver's side more than the minivan. But the Jeep rode over it better up down. Likely due to way bigger tires not dropping as much into the same holes.
There are so many variables. And like you're saying, with this sort of vehicle, likely easiest to control with shocks. Side to side sway and the heavier weight of the solid front axle and larger tires don't help.
In my neck of the world, every spring cars get towed after their airbags go off and axles get damaged from hitting potholes. Last year they closed a city street completely because it was too dangerous, tore it all out and rebuilt it.
So there isn't a smooth ride in any vehicle on our patched up streets. Larger tires help keep you from dropping into something you don't see to avoid.
A lot of what I felt was side to side. I could see better shocks slowing this motion. It was also easy to see the affect of a solid axle. Hitting a rough patch on the passenger side transfered to driver's side more than the minivan. But the Jeep rode over it better up down. Likely due to way bigger tires not dropping as much into the same holes.
There are so many variables. And like you're saying, with this sort of vehicle, likely easiest to control with shocks. Side to side sway and the heavier weight of the solid front axle and larger tires don't help.
In my neck of the world, every spring cars get towed after their airbags go off and axles get damaged from hitting potholes. Last year they closed a city street completely because it was too dangerous, tore it all out and rebuilt it.
So there isn't a smooth ride in any vehicle on our patched up streets. Larger tires help keep you from dropping into something you don't see to avoid.
Here, ride is affected most by not paying attention to the road and having too high of expectations. I'll show a photo of our paved goat paths some time.
Even low end shocks versus worn out OEM shocks helped. Adjustable shocks would more. But I'm not bump averse, so I wasn't really bothered with either. I grew up on a gravel road that was maintained by the county once a year. I see little point trying to smooth out the ride of my Jeep. I'd rather spend the effort on off road stuff. If that gives me a better ride, I'll take it.
Even low end shocks versus worn out OEM shocks helped. Adjustable shocks would more. But I'm not bump averse, so I wasn't really bothered with either. I grew up on a gravel road that was maintained by the county once a year. I see little point trying to smooth out the ride of my Jeep. I'd rather spend the effort on off road stuff. If that gives me a better ride, I'll take it.
If we would have the flying cars they promised us we wouldn’t be talking about silly springs. No need for suspension when we’re floating......
I have a couple questions that I feel are relevant to the topic
is spring rate the main difference between a "quality" spring vs a "budget" spring? or is a quality spring achieved by other factors such as material, how its wound etc?
what I have gathered is we should pay more attention to buying a good quality, properly fitting shock than worrying about which coil springs to use, is that accurate?
is spring rate the main difference between a "quality" spring vs a "budget" spring? or is a quality spring achieved by other factors such as material, how its wound etc?
what I have gathered is we should pay more attention to buying a good quality, properly fitting shock than worrying about which coil springs to use, is that accurate?
Spring free length, compressed length and longevity of spring without sagging are all considerations when choosing a quality spring.
The reality is the difference between a budget spring and a quality spring is mostly perception of brand by a huge margin. It is very similar to welding. Lots of shit welders live by the mantra of "it may not look good but it will hold" which is bullshit. The techniques and practices that produce a good weld also produce a good looking weld. Their rebuttal is that just because weld looks good doesn't mean it is good which is again, bullshit. Good practices that produce good welds also produce good looking welds.
The same is true with springs. The rules that determine how to make a spring and what to make it out of generally produce something that works. There are minor differences but a budget spring will not function long as a spring if it is not produced to sound manufacturing practices required to make a spring. In other words, outside of some fancy stuff that matters little, there is not a lot of difference.
Rubicon88
TJ Addict
OP
Not at all! I am quite satisfied. For my use at least.
I am perfectly confident that I wouldn't notice much difference if I installed Pro Comp's, RC's or any other "mainstream" spring instead of my OME 2" Light duty springs too.
A lot of times though I discuss with people or check videos that claim that Spring Rate could play its role. That's why I wanted to start a discussion to talk about it.
I don't have the experience yet, since I have only used 2 different springs on my TJ (stock, and current OME), so I can't really compare anything. Something that excited me though is really understanding why something is happening and IMHO this can be achieved only by discussing with the more experienced ones.
*You cannot imagine what kind of nonsense I've heard in local forums/groups etc.
For example, before installing my lift I asked in a local forum If I should install OME HD or LD. Someone responded that I should install HD because LD will sag faster. I asked WHY? He responded that they are "harder". I told him that they have exactly the same Spring rate, and the HD is only .5 inch taller than the LD. He then told that that doesn't matter HD should be more durable.... I never responded. It was a waste of my time.
(Sorry, this was a bit off topic, I just wanted to tell you what kind of non sense you deal with over here)
PLUS, I value talking and learning by more experienced people that can justify what they are saying, and not only giving false advices that if you ask them why, they cannot even respond)
Spring rate myths are generally acquired honestly before one understands how things work. The single biggest contributor to the mythology is very few springs give the same ride height. So an owner who has compromised shock travel that is biased so there is very little shaft showing at ride height will swap in a slightly to more than slightly taller spring and then report that Brand X makes an awesome riding spring. The reality is he corrected the shock bias to some degree and gave the shock time to do its job which removed a lot of felt harshness he had previous.
The other giant issue is looking at the shock length offerings. There is no such thing as a shock that will work for 2-4" of lift or 4-6" of lift. There will be some point in those where it works pretty well and a whole bunch of other points where it is highly compromised and will either have too little or too much shaft showing at ride height.
Rubicon88
TJ Addict
This is fact...and a funny one to me...
Many moons ago people would swear by what grandaddy would say.
Winchester is the best. Must be true.
Valvoline oil is the best. Quaker state will sludge you up.
Must be true.
Ford is better than Chevy.
Must be true.
Fast forward to present day...
Grandaddy is dead..
Ford vs. Chevy is dead...
Nobody shoots anymore so who cares if Winchester is better than Remington....dead..
Motor oil...forget Valvoline. Now you've got Redline, Royal Purple and so on...
We've got a whole slew of people that will literally fall on their sword over a brand/type of tire...suspension lift...shocks... and so on.
They love to claim "theirs" is the best and drive that shit home regardless. How do they know? They don't really. It just happened to be the one they chose to purchase so in fear of egg on face they need self preservation and a pat on the back for their brilliant purchase.
Back to your subject.
Could a coil impact ride? Sure. But not one that really fits...or at least how it fits like the factory designed.
What is the coil spring diameter of the TJ? (The thickness of the coil windings) About 1/2-9/16 ...somewhere in there.
So if we increased our winding size to 1 inch...or 1.5 inch ... something would definitely change. Would that fit in the spring pad and pocket and play nice? If it fit you'd have a spring that only have a few windings for a TJ height.
That THICKER spring would make an already rough riding little bitch into an immovable object (suspension)...because the TJ is too light to even make said spring move. It would just sit there with no movement.
So yes its possible a coil could impact ride but not as the coils that fit and are of the design to be enough to hold the weight of the machine without being immovable.
As far as the coils for the TJ...obviously they don't all share the same spring rate but the difference between them is negligible. Splitting hairs.
The shock on the other hand will impact the ride. Tire pressure will impact the ride.
Heavy accessories (winch and bumpers etc.) will impact the ride.
So for a pea brain such as myself this is what I am gathering from youThis is fact...and a funny one to me...
Many moons ago people would swear by what grandaddy would say.
Winchester is the best. Must be true.
Valvoline oil is the best. Quaker state will sludge you up.
Must be true.
Ford is better than Chevy.
Must be true.
Fast forward to present day...
Grandaddy is dead..
Ford vs. Chevy is dead...
Nobody shoots anymore so who cares if Winchester is better than Remington....dead..
Motor oil...forget Valvoline. Now you've got Redline, Royal Purple and so on...
We've got a whole slew of people that will literally fall on their sword over a brand/type of tire...suspension lift...shocks... and so on.
They love to claim "theirs" is the best and drive that shit home regardless. How do they know? They don't really. It just happened to be the one they chose to purchase so in fear of egg on face they need self preservation and a pat on the back for their brilliant purchase.
Back to your subject.
Could a coil impact ride? Sure. But not one that really fits...or at least how it fits like the factory designed.
What is the coil spring diameter of the TJ? (The thickness of the coil windings) About 1/2-9/16 ...somewhere in there.
So if we increased our winding size to 1 inch...or 1.5 inch ... something would definitely change. Would that fit in the spring pad and pocket and play nice? If it fit you'd have a spring that only have a few windings for a TJ height.
That THICKER spring would make an already rough riding little bitch into an immovable object (suspension)...because the TJ is too light to even make said spring move. It would just sit there with no movement.
So yes its possible a coil could impact ride but not as the coils that fit and are of the design to be enough to hold the weight of the machine without being immovable.
As far as the coils for the TJ...obviously they don't all share the same spring rate but the difference between them is negligible. Splitting hairs.
The shock on the other hand will impact the ride. Tire pressure will impact the ride.
Heavy accessories (winch and bumpers etc.) will impact the ride.
Often perception is reality and we need to open our eyes and use facts and real life experience as a buying guide not brand name and what the internet says
If we are comparing only jeep tj coil springs the difference between all manufacturers is very slight for most end users with the shock being a much bigger factor in ride quality
Nope, road condition and speed first. If you go slow enough over a pothole, you don't even know it is there.
Rubicon88
TJ Addict
It's negligible provided all things are equal.
Same tire and psi...shocks...equipment.
Honestly the biggest difference is insignificant differences.
Like finish. Some do a better job of powder coating than others.
It could be hard to tell in Arizona but in the rust belt it's easy to spot. Would that really impact the function? Not really. At least not for 50 years or so.
In the end though all this stuff is all on the end user.
What might be a perfect ride to driver A is complete shit to driver B and vice-versa. Nobody is wrong.
What is wrong is jamming "their" brand down the throat of said user just because. You'd think they get commission on this shit but they don't....which makes it even more strange. That's why I say WTF. How can people lack so much confidence they feel the need to give self ribbons for a purchase nobody else gives a shit about.
Rubicon88
TJ Addict
Not in PA.
If you go too slow in PA you know they're there alright.
Go slow over some of our potholes you need 4 low and lockers to climb out.
Our potholes are like this
You know they're there alright.
So in other words we need to factor in road condition and speed before we make a decision as to whether we like how a particular spring rides..and understand that on a crappy road you will get a crappy ride regardless of manufacturer