The Bargain Box

starkey480 said:
Nope. An LSD is different than an automatic locker. Grizzly and Detroit are both automatic lockers. Trutrac is LSD. Both my dads Jeep and mine came with trutracs and they sucked for any kind of rock crawling.
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I understand that an "auto" locker like a lunchbox or a detroit locks and unlocks automatically. However, an LSD still engages and disengages each wheel based on torque load. They are essentially doing the same thing different ways are they not? Not trying to split hairs. I'm really just trying to figure out what the lock up rate is on a say a detroit or grizzly vs a truetrac? This always ends up being a point of contention where some people swear by the truetrac and some people swear by the detroit. Terrain is a huge factor and we have a lot of loose dirt and clay here, lots of rocks as well. I'm looking to fill my needs the best way and I don't want a full on locker. By the way I really enjoy these challenging conversations because at the end, we all learn something new.
 
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Wildman said:
Remember his terrain and type of wheeling is different than what you are doing in AZ. When I was stationed in MD the type of wheeling I did on the east coast you don't lift a tire as much.

Bargain,
If you THINK you might ever go to a 35" tire then build your Dana 35 now to handle it. There is no point in spending that kind of money twice. And If you're going to be getting 33" tires when you regear and add lockers then I would look at 4.88 gears over 4.56 gears.
Again if you think you might at some point go to 35" tires you'll be glad for the little deeper gears.

But I'd rather be overgeared and drive a little slower on the highway than be undergeared and not have the gearing.
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I did seriously consider that, I'm actually thinking about going smaller not larger.
 
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Wildman said:
Remember his terrain and type of wheeling is different than what you are doing in AZ. When I was stationed in MD the type of wheeling I did on the east coast you don't lift a tire as much.

Bargain,
If you THINK you might ever go to a 35" tire then build your Dana 35 now to handle it. There is no point in spending that kind of money twice. And If you're going to be getting 33" tires when you regear and add lockers then I would look at 4.88 gears over 4.56 gears.
Again if you think you might at some point go to 35" tires you'll be glad for the little deeper gears.

But I'd rather be overgeared and drive a little slower on the highway than be undergeared and not have the gearing.
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Bargain Box said:
I understand that an "auto" locker like a lunchbox or a detroit locks and unlocks automatically. However, an LSD still engages and disengages each wheel based on torque load. They are essentially doing the same thing different ways are they not? Not trying to split hairs. I'm really just trying to figure out what the lock up rate is on a say a detroit or grizzly vs a truetrac? This always ends up being a point of contention where some people swear by the truetrac and some people swear by the detroit. Terrain is a huge factor and we have a lot of loose dirt and clay here, lots of rocks as well. I'm looking to fill my needs the best way and I don't want a full on locker. By the way I really enjoy these challenging conversations because at the end, we all learn something new.
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Theoretically like wild man said as long as you don’t lift a tire the LSD should split the power between the 2 wheels. I just remember struggling with our LSDs but my terrain is definitely different and tire lift city.
 
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starkey480 said:
Theoretically like wild man said as long as you don’t lift a tire the LSD should split the power between the 2 wheels. I just remember struggling with our LSDs but my terrain is definitely different and tire lift city.
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I think that highlights the weak point. The auto lockers do tend to do a better job with a wheel in the air where an LSD is more about even bias so if it's full slip (wheel in the air) it tends to start letting you down. You can always cheat and use the handbrake to trick an LSD haha. Thanks for the deep thoughts. Love the insight and counter points.
 
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Bargain Box said:
I think that highlights the weak point. The auto lockers do tend to do a better job with a wheel in the air where an LSD is more about even bias so if it's full slip (wheel in the air) it tends to start letting you down. You can always cheat and use the handbrake to trick an LSD haha. Thanks for the deep thoughts. Love the insight and counter points.
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Theoretically if you do LSD, then 27 spline 1541h shafts should be fine as well.
 
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starkey480 said:
Theoretically if you do LSD, then 27 spline 1541h shafts should be fine as well.
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That is actually the path I was looking and had several people including the gear shop who said it was a safe setup. It's also like 400-500 cheaper. Again, I'm not settled and can be persuaded.
 
Bargain Box said:
That is actually the path I was looking and had several people including the gear shop who said it was a safe setup. It's also like 400-500 cheaper. Again, I'm not settled and can be persuaded.
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I think it just depends what you want to do with it. 90% of wheeling situations you’ll probably be fine with the LSD, especially with the front locker. If you are thinking about rock crawling then rear locker for sure. But idk if y’all even have rock crawling out there. Never been to NC!
 
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starkey480 said:
I think it just depends what you want to do with it. 90% of wheeling situations you’ll probably be fine with the LSD, especially with the front locker. If you are thinking about rock crawling then rear locker for sure. But idk if y’all even have rock crawling out there. Never been to NC!
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We definitely have rocks out here. Just a lot of red clay and loose dirt as well.
 
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The hardest part is always trying to decide what to do. I know I researched and read and listened a lot when I started. But I had years of reading all the different mags when I finally bought my first 4x4. Plus I had real world application from living in places where 4WD was a NEEDED thing not a I want thing.

Try to balance what you want with what you need. If you are driving your rig 90% on the street then maybe a auto locker in the rear isn't the best bet. I ran a Detroit auto locker in the rear of my TJ and it was my DD but I'd had auto lockers before so I knew what I was getting into.
 
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Wildman said:
The hardest part is always trying to decide what to do. I know I researched and read and listened a lot when I started. But I had years of reading all the different mags when I finally bought my first 4x4. Plus I had real world application from living in places where 4WD was a NEEDED thing not a I want thing.

Try to balance what you want with what you need. If you are driving your rig 90% on the street then maybe a auto locker in the rear isn't the best bet. I ran a Detroit auto locker in the rear of my TJ and it was my DD but I'd had auto lockers before so I knew what I was getting into.
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It is not a daily driver. I drive it around for fun or to the trail. I have two other vehicles. Comfort/noise are not a concern luckily. She's the ugliest garage queen ever haha.
 
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Bargain Box said:
It is not a daily driver. I drive it around for fun or to the trail. I have two other vehicles. Comfort/noise are not a concern luckily. She's the ugliest garage queen ever haha.
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Then build it to play with.
If you can afford it even if you aren't going to be installing 35" tires get a Super35 kit.
 
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LSDs, Trutrac included will provide 0 power when you lift a tire. Tapping the brakes can help a *little* but not enough to rely on as a general technique to make up for not having a locker when you need one. This is especially evident with a MANual transmission. I have TruTracs front and rear btw (and love them). You just have to know their limitations and adjust expectations accordingly.

My TJ is a daily driver and the on road characteristics matter greatly to me in addition to wheeling East cost trails vs left coast rocks. That being said, if it was a secondary fun vehicle, I'd do an auto-locker.
 
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Staying with the bargain theme I got an open box Bestop Trektop for only $348 shipped. I can't get it completely on yet because it's not warm enough to let the fabric stretch so the zippers are extremely tight and I don't want to damage it.

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Replaced the transmission mount since mine was badly dry rotted. I also did some rust mitigation on the rails and skid. I forgot to take after shots when I was done sanding and repainting the rough areas. At least it's done.

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