The "other" site

[StG58]

While I agree wholly with the sentiment expressed, give me the parameters of what you want to do with your rig and if the criteria includes high levels of durability, performance, and function, at least one of those three names will be applied to the build in some way with some Savvy tossed in somewhere.

I can make your rig work better suspension wise than any thing you've seen or driven in all likelihood and I won't do it without Currie ends.

I will also be a snob about winches for a lot of reasons but mostly because I despise Chinese copy machines and the companies that do it.

Not an arguable point, nor would I presume to try with certain parts. O2 sensors? Nope, NGK. Other parts are the same. Spark plgs, oil and air filters...it's a pretty long list.

I'm not convinced that I need, let's say, Currie CA's for what I do with my TJ. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't notice the difference. A JJ control arm is superior, but will it give me enough extra in my usage to make up for the additional expense involved? Don't know that.

I get what you're saying @mrblaine, but not everyone needs or can afford that level of perfection. Some are forced by circumstances to get "good enough" and live with that. By focusing on the best, I don't think we are truly helping everyone as much as we can. That didn't come out right, but you get the gist, I'm sure.

 

[mrblaine]

Not an arguable point, nor would I presume to try with certain parts. O2 sensors? Nope, NGK. Other parts are the same. Spark plgs, oil and air filters...it's a pretty long list.

I'm not convinced that I need, let's say, Currie CA's for what I do with my TJ. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't notice the difference. A JJ control arm is superior, but will it give me enough extra in my usage to make up for the additional expense involved? Don't know that.

I get what you're saying @mrblaine, but not everyone needs or can afford that level of perfection. Some are forced by circumstances to get "good enough" and live with that. By focusing on the best, I don't think we are truly helping everyone as much as we can. That didn't come out right, but you get the gist, I'm sure.

You know who developed the best gas tank skid on the market? I did, but if you dig around you'll not find me offering a blanket recommendation for folks to run it. In fact, just last week I helped a buddy drop his factory skid, I cut it, overlapped the cuts by 1 1/8", welded it back together and now he has a raised gas tank skid that will suit his needs just fine. Point of that is I do get that there is a balance between budget and performance and not everyone needs the best.

The other side of that is all the folks and there are a bunch who started out with a budget lift and within a short period of time have completely replaced every aspect of it so now they have the high dollar kit they wound up with and the cost of the cheap kit added to it plus the cost to swap it all in twice and out twice.

Also why I don't do blanket recommendations. You give me the parameters of what you're trying to do and I'll figure out what works.

We also have to figure out how to deal with those who have champagne desires and beer budgets. I get that we all want stuff, we just need to make sure we can afford it and just because you want something, doesn't mean the rest of the world has to chip in or lower the price just to help you get it.

Are we really focused on the best? I don't really pay that much attention to stuff like that.

 

[Chris]

We also have to figure out how to deal with those who have champagne desires and beer budgets.

That sentence sums it up perfectly.

 

[Umbra]

We do have our own form of snobbery around here though. Think about it for a minute. What is the standard response when someone asks about tires? Shocks? CA's? Winches? We are developing our own group-think here.

Groupthink is a thing with most car groups. But it's not necessarily bad. Often vehicles start to look the same because everybody has discovered what works best through others experiences.

It's only snobbery if folks begin to loudly criticize others that don't concur with the groups opinion.

My Jeep is a weirdo and several here have ribbed me a little about my wheel choice in a very good natured way. It's not meant as (and I don't take it as) criticism or pressure to do something different.

The other 2 remaining forums that I still use suffer BADLY from tribalism. In their world your car must fit into one of two categories or you just ain't as cool as they are. And they'll let you know what they think of your choices, usually without being asked.

It's epidemic in the classic car world.

I just don't see it here much.

 

[mrblaine]

Groupthink is a thing with most car groups. But it's not necessarily bad. Often vehicles start to look the same because everybody has discovered what works best through others experiences.

It's only snobbery if folks begin to loudly criticize others that don't concur with the groups opinion.

My Jeep is a weirdo and several here have ribbed me a little about my wheel choice in a very good natured way. It's not meant as (and I don't take it as) criticism or pressure to do something different.

The other 2 remaining forums that I still use suffer BADLY from tribalism. In their world your car must fit into one of two categories or you just ain't as cool as they are. And they'll let you know what they think of your choices, usually without being asked.

It's epidemic in the classic car world.

I just don't see it here much.

There is a fair bit of a shit storm thread on WF that I was in right after I first joined up. A guy bought a Jeep, mostly or all stock, drove to work and upon arrival, started getting some grief from his co-workers who said he was driving a girly car. He jumped on WF and asked for some low cost simple mods to make his rig appear more manly. Some fucktard posted up his rig as an example of a "manly" rig and I qualified my response first with my/our definition of manly and then pointed out each thing on his rig that would not fit in that definition. Holy crap did I ever offend him and no matter how many times I tried to explain the concept that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, he refused to try and even begin to understand what was being said and just couldn't get over the fact that he drove a poser mall crawler.

I told him over and over that a "manly" rig in my opinion (and it is just that, an opinion) is one that is used in pursuit of manly activities like wheeling and playing in the rocks and not trying to impress the local inhabitants of the gender confused bars and malls. Therefore, his t-case drop, shitty rims, no winch having, plastic fender POS, bullshit color matching interior piece of shit was about as far from manly as you can get while still wearing a penis.

No matter what I said, he could never get the point that my opinion, just like his, was a poor metric of what was manly and what wasn't because everyone has different baselines for how they view things. He never got over being offended that I didn't think his rig was manly. Point of all that drivel is I learned that there is a very large group of folks that so identify with their vehicle choice that any slight towards the vehicle is a personal attack on them. It's also why I suck at marketing. I expect customers to understand what is good about something and be able to spot the truth and not be swayed by bullshit. I learn every day just how wrong I am about that.

I think Chris was even in that thread defending the poor guy.

 

[Chris]

There is a fair bit of a shit storm thread on WF that I was in right after I first joined up. A guy bought a Jeep, mostly or all stock, drove to work and upon arrival, started getting some grief from his co-workers who said he was driving a girly car. He jumped on WF and asked for some low cost simple mods to make his rig appear more manly. Some fucktard posted up his rig as an example of a "manly" rig and I qualified my response first with my/our definition of manly and then pointed out each thing on his rig that would not fit in that definition. Holy crap did I ever offend him and no matter how many times I tried to explain the concept that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, he refused to try and even begin to understand what was being said and just couldn't get over the fact that he drove a poser mall crawler.

I told him over and over that a "manly" rig in my opinion (and it is just that, an opinion) is one that is used in pursuit of manly activities like wheeling and playing in the rocks and not trying to impress the local inhabitants of the gender confused bars and malls. Therefore, his t-case drop, shitty rims, no winch having, plastic fender POS, bullshit color matching interior piece of shit was about as far from manly as you can get while still wearing a penis.

No matter what I said, he could never get the point that my opinion, just like his, was a poor metric of what was manly and what wasn't because everyone has different baselines for how they view things. He never got over being offended that I didn't think his rig was manly. Point of all that drivel is I learned that there is a very large group of folks that so identify with their vehicle choice that any slight towards the vehicle is a personal attack on them. It's also why I suck at marketing. I expect customers to understand what is good about something and be able to spot the truth and not be swayed by bullshit. I learn every day just how wrong I am about that.

I think Chris was even in that thread defending the poor guy.

I think I remember that!

But if you ask me, that almost comes down to an issue of self-insecurity. I say that because if someone told me that my Jeep wasn't manly enough, I would shrug that off and chalk said person(s) up to being an asshole. I wouldn't let that get to me one bit.

Everyone is different though.

I'm one of those guys where I see one of those overdone TJs (like that one that's going for 125k on eBay in the other thread) and I laugh. Unless that thing was built for a purpose (which I don't think it was built for any other purpose than looks). To me that doesn't look manly, it looks plain silly.

 

[Travis]

I think I remember that!

But if you ask me, that almost comes down to an issue of self-insecurity. I say that because if someone told me that my Jeep wasn't manly enough, I would shrug that off and chalk said person(s) up to being an asshole. I wouldn't let that get to me one bit.

Everyone is different though.

I'm one of those guys where I see one of those overdone TJs (like that one that's going for 125k on eBay in the other thread) and I laugh. Unless that thing was built for a purpose (which I don't think it was built for any other purpose than looks). To me that doesn't look manly, it looks plain silly.

Wait, there was a 125k TJ!? I must have missed that one. Sheesh.

 

[bobthetj03]

Yes there is. I'm not a sheeple, so I tend to walk my own path. Because this is a model specific forum, you are bound to see some leanings to certain products. Hey they work well, and folks who have them want to comment on that. If I have any complaints here, the one thing I'd like to see a little less of is the trashing of certain products or companies. If said product or company didn't work for you, simply say that is didn't work well for you, not X company or Y product is shit. It may be shit, but I don't think anything productive will come of that kind of advise. If you have hard facts as to why something didn't work for you, explain why and provide examples so you can come to a fair opinion. With that said, I do like this place and appreciate all the advise given.

I didn't say that I didn't want to know. If you're boasting something is shit, tell me why.

 

[JeepNWilly]

If I have any complaints here, the one thing I'd like to see a little less of is the trashing of certain products or companies. If said product or company didn't work for you, simply say that is didn't work well for you, not X company or Y product is shit. It may be shit, but I don't think anything productive will come of that kind of advise. If you have hard facts as to why something didn't work for you, explain why and provide examples so you can come to a fair opinion.

I agree with you 100%. I know a ton of people dislike Rough Country and tend to bash them. It doesn't really bother me at all. Yes they are cheap but I have been running them since I started modifying my TJ back on 2006 and have never had any complaints on the lifts. I have been running the Rough Country long arm since 2013 and have been very happy with the ride quality on road (Daily Driver) and also the way it handles off road. My TJ is not a trailer queen so anywhere I wheel I drive it there and back. The farthest north I have driven to a trail is Windrock TN. Someday I will drive it to Moab. Of course I would not mind being able to afford a top of the line suspension lift but I can't.

I can also agree that this forum great with a n awesome group of jeepers:thumbup:. I see everyone being very helpful with no drama which I have experienced in other forums.

Keep up the great work Chris :beer-toast1::ARMS1::thumbup:

 

[mrblaine]

I agree with you 100%. I know a ton of people dislike Rough Country and tend to bash them. It doesn't really bother me at all. Yes they are cheap but I have been running them since I started modifying my TJ back on 2006 and have never had any complaints on the lifts. I have been running the Rough Country long arm since 2013 and have been very happy with the ride quality on road (Daily Driver) and also the way it handles off road. My TJ is not a trailer queen so anywhere I wheel I drive it there and back. The farthest north I have driven to a trail is Windrock TN. Someday I will drive it to Moab. Of course I would not mind being able to afford a top of the line suspension lift but I can't.

I can also agree that this forum great with a n awesome group of jeepers:thumbup:. I see everyone being very helpful with no drama which I have experienced in other forums.

Keep up the great work Chris :beer-toast1::ARMS1::thumbup:

Buddy with a Rubicon bought the RC 4" kit and came to play in JV with us. He wasn't familiar with how to check the set up so he came out with their far too long shocks they had at one point. We're on Outer Limits and he working through an tough little spot when his left rear tire started down the face of a rock instead of up. When it got far enough, it pulled the eye off the shock and let the axle go down further. The over articulation blew up the rear drive shaft CV joint. So, we now have a rig with a blown up rear drive shaft and a useless rear shock. Fortunately we were near the beginning of the trail and were able to get him turned around and his friend was able to help him get back to camp for some sort of a band aid fix so he could get it on the trailer.

 

[JeepNWilly]

Buddy with a Rubicon bought the RC 4" kit and came to play in JV with us. He wasn't familiar with how to check the set up so he came out with their far too long shocks they had at one point. We're on Outer Limits and he working through an tough little spot when his left rear tire started down the face of a rock instead of up. When it got far enough, it pulled the eye off the shock and let the axle go down further. The over articulation blew up the rear drive shaft CV joint. So, we now have a rig with a blown up rear drive shaft and a useless rear shock. Fortunately we were near the beginning of the trail and were able to get him turned around and his friend was able to help him get back to camp for some sort of a band aid fix so he could get it on the trailer.

I actually have never used RC Shocks on my TJ. I run Bilstein front and rear on my TJ.

 

[Chris]

Wait, there was a 125k TJ!? I must have missed that one. Sheesh.

The most expensive TJ I've ever seen... Honestly!

 

[Travis]

The most expensive TJ I've ever seen... Honestly!

Whoa, what a ridiculous looking TJ. Rich people :sconf:

 

[JeepNWilly]

The most expensive TJ I've ever seen... Honestly!

Damn!!!! It must have gold plating everywhere LOL

 

[badlieutenant]

You guys are so awesome, Chris is awesome, and this forum is awesome. As a moderator, I've not once had to step in and "moderate". You guys are all grown ups and we are all here to help each other out and have a good time.

Chris has had to "moderate" a couple times and I think it had something to do with those dirty Canadians and their butchering of the queens language but I'm not sure. Something about Stringer and voyeurism. Something something Canadians something.

/runs and hides from stringer

 

[egclassic]

I like this forum, others not so much.
I was signed up on a boating forum once, and it seemed like the same user always showed up in EVERY post just to say something to be an Ass. Some of the Harley forums I have joined are the same, a bunch of Douche Bag know-it-alls!
What really gets me is when someone comments on your post, but has nothing useful to add but to try and Belittle someone!

 

[Germanshepherd]

And also the reason I only use and promote this forum. When I got my jeep I joined all of the forums including this one and did not take me long to ditch the others and just use this one.
Everyone is helpful, not judgemental and act like grown ups. Great job to Chris, badLT and my fellow jeepers!!

 

[billiebob]

Yes, many thanks for putting up with us

 

[Rob5589]

I like this forum, others not so much.
I was signed up on a boating forum once, and it seemed like the same user always showed up in EVERY post just to say something to be an Ass. Some of the Harley forums I have joined are the same, a bunch of Douche Bag know-it-alls!
What really gets me is when someone comments on your post, but has nothing useful to add but to try and Belittle someone!

Blah blah blah, whatever dude...:meparto::SimpHomer:

 

[BendLarry]

I'm new to Jeeps and to this site but I have developed and moderated a couple of forums on different subjects.

Here is my 2 cents worth. I have found this site to be very informative, there is a lot of knowledge here. For the most part it is noob friendly. There is one snob here however. I recently posted pictures of my Jeeps bumpers and asked if anyone knew who made them.
This guy who I don't need to name came back with, "poor design I wouldn't run either of them". No explanation just his snobby opinion. I didn't ask who would run them, just if anyone knew who made them. I don't have thin skin, if my stuff is crap just tell me why you think so, don't just make unfounded broad statements that offer no useful info. Other than this dude everyone has been very welcoming and I'm learning a lot.
Chris... you are great and show a lot of interest in helping people and promoting this site. As far a search engines go, most don't help all that much. Many people, including me first start off asking Google questions which often brings them to sites like this one.
If a site or some members don't like answering noob questions, then my advise would be not to post anything in response to "dumb ass noob questions"
Thanks Chris and everyone else who has offered their experience and thoughts.