Tired of seeing knock off products pushed here

[Mike_H]

Very few if any electronic items are actually made in the USA. They may be designed and 1st few prototypes made here but mass production generally goes overseas. Yea many of them are build in the same manufacturer plant but you will see many subtle changes to avoid and patent legal battles. I am all for buying Made in the USA but I also work very hard for my money and there some things I just cannot justify. LED lighting is one of them. Rigid is one of the brands that I feel are way over priced. They claim better manufacturing but I have seen personally that their board are very similar to other no name brands. A friend of mine had a 1 yeard old D Series Pod die on him. He had it sitting around so I asked him to let me take a look at it. When I opened it up I found a tiny surface mount component that had completely come of the board. I went ahead and soldered it back on problem solved. I inspected the rest of the board and saw typical manufacturing lack of solder on all the components. for household electronics is fine as they do not bounce around but for vehicle use it was not good enough. I went ahead an re-soldered a lot of them before I closed up the light.

Hmmm, interesting failure mode. Solder is not designed to be a mechanical bond, generally. I don't know that much about SMD stuff, so maybe those pads are more durable, but for a typical component that would go through a wave machine, you want the component to have a mechanical connection for durability, solder for connectivity.

 

[JeepNWilly]

Hmmm, interesting failure mode. Solder is not designed to be a mechanical bond, generally. I don't know that much about SMD stuff, so maybe those pads are more durable, but for a typical component that would go through a wave machine, you want the component to have a mechanical connection for durability, solder for connectivity.

when I opened it it looked like vibrations caused the small surface mount component to come loose. If I remember correctly it was a small diode. I had to use fine point tweezers to gab it and set it in place.

 

[Trident72]

I get what your sayin, but dude, 80$ vs 800$ I’ll buy 10 pairs of these and throw em out when they go bad. Are they as good, probably not. Are they INFINITELY better than the stock ones they replaced....you bet!


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[mrblaine]

Good points. Never said anyone buying knock offs made them bad people or deserved to be shamed.

My motivation in sharing the article was just to look at the different build quality between a quality item and a really good (IMO) knock off. A lot of people will argue there isnt any and sometimes use the “they are built in the same plant in China.”

Im no manufacturing expert. I have absolutely no expertise to lay claim that a quality product and a knock off are in fact manufactured in the same plant. However, is it me reading into it too much...To conclude that when I hear, “the two products, one being real at $800 and the knock off being $400 are produced at the same plant,” gives ME the impression they are the same quality and will net the same results?

Otherwise what is the point in mentioning that they are manufactured in the same plant by the same people?

Note: I didnt author the article. Just sharing it based on my opinion that it was interesting.

One thing I often see overlooked in the "same factory" bullshit is that GM produced the Chevette and the Corvette at the same time. It's a GM product so you're getting the same quality, right? No, not right at all. Being produced in the same factory means just that, they are made in the same physical location and that is the only bit of criteria you can use to justify the purchase. You are using all the rest of the bullshit to justify your own beliefs that adhere to your value system which is neither right or wrong but there is no indicator of quality or function that can be counted on due to physical location of production regardless of how much you want it to be so.

FYI, we've put the JW lights up against the Trucklites and we prefer the Trucklites.

 

[mrblaine]

Exactly. But as I mentioned before, this isn't so much an actual informative article as it is SEO clickbait. Headlight Revolution (the people who wrote this "article") are a company that sells headlights for a living. Of course they want you to buy the expensive lights. I have no doubt the JWs are better than the knockoffs, but I'm just saying this is far from an unbiased article. Like you said, they aren't backing up any of their claims with facts or evidence, they're just making unsubstantiated claims based on looking at the headlights side-by-side.

Why does it have to be unbiased to be accurate? Just because the article is biased towards the JW brand doesn't inherently make it inaccurate. Do you know enough about the variances to write an article from an unbiased viewpoint?

 

[Chris]

Why does it have to be unbiased to be accurate? Just because the article is biased towards the JW brand doesn't inherently make it inaccurate. Do you know enough about the variances to write an article from an unbiased viewpoint?

No, but I don’t sell headlights for a living like the guys who wrote that article. Maybe if it had come from someone who had nothing to gain from writing an article like that, then I would give it more credibility.

 

[mrblaine]

No, but I don’t sell headlights for a living like the guys who wrote that article. Maybe if it had come from someone who had nothing to gain from writing an article like that, then I would give it more credibility.

Who do you know that could do a side x side comparison with highly intimate knowledge of brake parts and kits that doesn't also sell them? If I put up the article I created showing the terrible differences between my products and a Made in USA crap knock-off, are you or anyone else going to give it less credibility because I also happen to sell brakes?

At what point are you able to distinguish between knowledge for the customer to help them make an informed decision and marketing hype?

 

[KMG]

The same people who buy imported crap are the same ones who bitch about their taxes going up to help cover the laid off employees who don't have jobs because their company sent production overseas. Pay more upfront for a quality Made in the USA product or pay less for crap now and then pay higher taxes later. We haven't discussed the secondary effect on the economy when US manufactures buy their raw materials local, hire local contractors, maintenance, custodial, utilities, insurance, corporate and property taxes. To me, most people are self focused and short sighted.

 

[StG58]

I've got a little bit of a different spin on this subject. It's not strictly applicable to TJ parts made overseas, but it may shed some light on the subject.

I work for a medical device manufacturing company. We build the highest quality, longest lasting products in the industry. We have for over 50 years now. We sell world wide. If you want THE BEST, most innovative products we are it. Now, that being said we purchase sub-assemblies and components from overseas suppliers. Japan, Austria, Germany supply us with components that we cannot manufacture here in the states for one reason or another. Could we build them in house? Probably. Could we sell them? Possibly here in the states, but not overseas. Our market share would plummet and the cost - benefit equation would just kill us. No sales, no profit, no taxes being paid. Fewer employees in the plant.

The other side of the coin is we have a wholly owned subsidiary in China. It took us two and a half years to get them up to speed so they could manufacture a MUCH simpler product portfolio designed for use in less advanced countries. Same quality and degree of innovation, just a much simpler and less feature laden design. We sank two and half years into the project. They are finally building and shipping one product line that meets our criteria to places like India, Africa, South America and, of course China. We manufacture all of the high precision parts and unique sub-assemblies here and ship them overseas for final processing and final assembly. We would probably sell zero product in those areas if we didn't have the Chinese subsidiary. Our products just cost more than the local economies can support.

There is more to it than just making a blanket statement of "Buy American". The people who make things need to make a living wage, through out the supply chain. When the cost of living gets high enough the choice becomes: Stop selling product. Overseas manufacturing at a lower cost. Only compete at the higher end and have a very limited market.

 

[Chris]

There is more to it than just making a blanket statement of "Buy American". The people who make things need to make a living wage, through out the supply chain. When the cost of living gets high enough the choice becomes: Stop selling product. Overseas manufacturing at a lower cost. Only compete at the higher end and have a very limited market.

That's what needed to be said, and I agree 100%.

That "Buy American" blanket statement doesn't always apply.

 

[lovemachine]

‘Merica!

 

[Fouledplugs]

Support American Companies...?
:tiburon:

 

[BendLarry]

As long as a company can find people who accept their marketing hype, and are willing to pay $800. for HEADLIGHTS!!! they will continue to sell them and continue to try to convince the market they are worth it. Competition is a very good thing, it often times uncovers the gullibility of a market place. A ridiculous high price, for some equates to “the best “ . Smart marketers know how to exploit this segment of the market. I will pay a higher price for things that I assess as critical, but headlights are not one of those things. Jeep headlights suck, but for $100. you can make exponential improvements.


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[Daz7]

FWIW I just received a box of Mopar genuine parts - proudly made in South Korea

 

[ac_]

I know there are a lot of buy American holdouts, but you really aren't even if you are. I mean I used to work for a very famous racing car part company, If you are into racing, you have heard of them for sure. In fact I have seen links to their products on this very forum. I can tell you that they manufacture some of their own parts, but not most. They will have China build parts and then assemble it here. They do have mills, and all of the tools, but they only manufacture things they cannot get China to do to their standards. The upside is they get all of the parts from China and visually inspect and repackage the parts. I worked there about 15 years ago, and it wasn't new back then.

If they buy a part and repackage it, they will site the country where it came from, but if they assemble it and use a Chinese part it may not be stated, or at least that way then.

On the same token, I just bought a Warn winch, and the winch itself is built in the US, but the solenoid pack came from overseas. The ridiculous part is that the solenoid pack is metric, but the winch was US standard. They didn't even try and hide it. So what I am saying is we have to band together and point out good parts, and bad parts, and maybe not be too concerned with where it came from, because chances are it is coming from China anyway.

When I first joined the forum last summer, people suggested to buy a AEV (Chinese) front bumper and stay away from Smittybilt. I did some research and it is the exact same bumper, because Smittybuilt rebrands the Chinese bumper. How the hell are we supposed to know that other than now we know that Smittybilt only sells Chinese parts. So in a sense you are getting the same exact bumper either way, but if you buy from Smittybilt it is 100 dollars more.

When is it OK to buy Chinese, and when is it not?

I personally do like to support a US company, but are there any left? Seriously?
Maybe we should have a sticky thread that only consists of companies that don't use Chinese parts. I bet that list would be small.

I bought a new Warn winch cover for my new Warn winch (made in Korea) if I remember correctly. The disgusting part is the Korean part was 80 bucks. All I know is it wasn't as good as the one i had on my winch 20 years ago that was actually manufactured at Warn. I would definitely buy that one again if I could.

The front bumper I got from Warn, I have no idea where it came from honestly, but the powder coating was sub par. I had to strip it and repaint it.

I will pay top dollar for a good product no matter where it comes from.

I would love to just buy American, but I don't believe it is a choice anymore.

 

[Daz7]

I would love to just buy American, but I don't believe it is a choice anymore.

It's the same world-wide. In our country, they had a made in Australia logo on goods, so you could tell the locally made goods from those imported. It became a farce when companies were importing goods, repackaging them and because they were repackaged locally, they were "made in Australia".

Our government is very open in saying that manufacturing in our country is over. Apparently, we should all be in the service industry. It's a very sad outcome.

 

[Squatch]

It is my opinion (and I really would prefer not to get roasted for simply stating my opinion...), but I cannot help but feel that we, the buying public, did this to ourselves. How many of us had our fathers or grandfathers tell us "You get what you pay for"? Well, it seems that these days, more people want to save a buck and buy the cheapest (excuse me...I meant, "inexpensive") product they can at WallyWorld, rather than pay a little more for a superior product. Do I feel the U.S. used to make superior products? Damn right, I do. And I had the option of buying them. And I exercised that right whenever possible. Know what? I've been ridiculed for being frivolous and blowing money when X-company sells the same thing so much cheaper. Well, guess what? It's not the same thing. More times than not, it's an inferior product in one way or another, and you'll end up replacing it far sooner than you'd like. So when more folks are willing to do just that...buy, replace, repeat...than to buy a quality product to begin with because it costs more up front, then we end up in the hole we're in now. I have a helluva time just trying to find American made products to purchase, now. And when I do find 'em, I pay dearly. The last big example was brake rotors for my 3/4 ton Dodge. I paid $156 each for the U.S. made product. The guy behind the counter was floored because I would not buy the $36 Chinese rotors. Unfortunately, his reaction is the norm, these days, and we're all paying the price, one way or another. Rant over...

 

[billiebob]

It is my opinion (and I really would prefer not to get roasted for simply stating my opinion...), but I cannot help but feel that we, the buying public, did this to ourselves. Unfortunately, his reaction is the norm, these days, and we're all paying the price, one way or another. Rant over...

Absolutely. I bought a Warn M8000 because.... And no, Harbour Freight is not my favorite retailer. I also shop local every chance I get.

 

[ac_]

Absolutely. I bought a Warn M8000 because.... And no, Harbour Freight is not my favorite retailer. I also shop local every chance I get.

Bad news for you the m8000 mechanical part is made in USA but the Solenoid pack is metric. In fact I had to use both metric and standard tools to install mine a month ago.

It was actually a mess too. I got the winch in the original box, everything was sealed, but half the bolts were metric and half were standard and there was a hodgepodge of them. They were in a sealed bag, but there was not a whole set of either. I had to run to the hardware store to complete sets. It came with more mismatched nuts and bolts than I actually had holes for. Same goes with the Warn bumper. Not a matching set of hardware in the package. Nothing was opened when I received it, so it wasn't pillaged. I just figured poor QC especially since the powder coat was horrible on the bumper. I have to say If I didn't own a Warn previously, I would have been seriously disappointed. The fact the winch itself was standard leads me to believe that the winch is still manufactured here with the same quality it used to have, but the peripherals sure don't seem to be.

 

[billiebob]

Only good news 3 years later. As to the Metric/Imperial thing. I live in Canada and bought both sets from Snap On in the 1970s when we went Metric... so Metric/Imperial... no difference for me. 40 years of conditioning. I have zero complaints on anything from Warn, most of my rigging is Warn too.

Theres only like 3 countries in the world that are not metric. The USA, Burma & Liberia. For everyone else, metric is the standard.