What Difference Do Shocks Make?
- Thread starter jjvw
- Start date
OP
After today's adventures, I can reconfirm that shocks have a tremendous influence on how the vehicle behaves. This AllTech tune is pretty great even at its softest setting on the adjustors. The Fox off the shelf tune is pretty terrible. Identical shocks with very different tunes. This difference between tunes is far greater than any drive after Discount Tire has filled my tires up to 45psi from my normal 25psi.
Anyone who thinks they can fix the ride with springs needs to remove the shocks and go for a drive and think about how much even a bad shock does to dictate the ride.
I agree. I had to drive my truck down the street without rear shocks one time. The bouncing at 1 mph is amazing. It is also a great way to show leaf springs (which don't use control arms) go from very soft to very stiff with the addition of a shock.
OP
Earlier today, I couldn't believe how much the Jeep bounced around and occilated after I simply jumped into the seat without rear shocks. Everyone should try this just to experience it.
Another thing I noticed when I swapped shocks was the change in ride height. I gained half an inch swapping oil to nitro charged.
OP
Someday I'll measure it again, but I recall that change to be only a small fraction of an inch.
OP
I've driven a couple of his tunes. Neither one is like the other. One is similar to, but different than, what I have.
I did not mean I was surprised shocks have that much effect. Shocks by far have the largest impact on ride quality, no arguments there whatsoever. I specifically budgeted for the outboard so that I could run quality shocks with good travel.
I meant to write that I was not expecting the LSC settings would have that much of a clear difference. Even within 2-3 clicks you can tell the ride quality changes. I thought it would be a more subtle but after Paul explained what was happening I understood why.
OP
The last part of today's experiments is done. I am now running a pair of $7 junk yard Ford F150 shocks in the rear. 10.5" travel and about 2" shorter extended than my Foxes. They aren't awful. And they might be slightly nicer than the Fox tune. But don't mistake this as a recommendation! I'll only have these installed for as long as I have to.
jesseshoots
TJ Enthusiast
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the stock fox shock tunes are garbage! I haven't run them on a TJ but I've run them on both JK's and JL's and they suck on those too. They have the exact same characteristics you describe for the TJ versions.
I have the same setup. 11" ranchos up front, 12" Fox RR outboard rear.
I recently purchased all the things needed to tune shocks myself. I have a set of 12" RR that were tuned firm by Fullstack. They were very stiff and speed bumps, potholes, tabletop crosswalks, and such were brutal. I feel like it would knock the air out of me unless I was doing 35-40 mph... at that speed, it was actually pretty smooth. Off-road, it was very harsh. Where I live all of the trails are littered with small rocks and the constant small bumps just shook me and the jeep apart... unless I was driving crazy fast... Then it was pretty nice, but that's not the type of driving I am looking to do.
My jeep is very light, no spare, no rear seat, minimalist bumper, etc and the tune just wasn't right for my jeep. @pcoplin had offered to retune them for free but he got me thinking, "what if I could do it myself?" I purchased the regulator, hose and fill valve, spare shims, seal kits, and everything else I might need. Paul at Fullstack is so awesome that he sent me a set of shims setup for a light tune, so I could put them in myself. The difference was night and day. Much smoother, much less pain, but still not the right tune for my light jeep, my driving style, and the terrain I drive. So after a ton of research, I came up with my own tune.
I started with a very light .008 stack (#35 from fox) and added a small shim between the two largest to create a small flutter valve. Nothing crazy there.
Now the jeep is very smooth on the bumps, the dips, the tabletop crosswalks. Off-road it's great. I ran broken arrow this morning and it was smooth and controlled. Not too much head toss, Easy coming down off rocks, no bottoming out.
I'm not done tinkering, but I'm very happy with what I have now. I need to get the jeep out into the open and start going faster to see how it does. I've re-valved the shocks 4 times in the past few days.
The best part is I can go from getting the floor jack out to bolting everything back together in about an hour.
Speaking of shocks, why is it I almost only see Fox shocks being used on outboard applications? I know King and RadFlo both make decent shocks from what I've heard.
I suspect it has to do with packaging and size constraints (and the Fox being a good fit), but I'm just curious. @pcoplin, aren't you running Kings or RadFlo shocks?
I suspect it has to do with packaging and size constraints (and the Fox being a good fit), but I'm just curious. @pcoplin, aren't you running Kings or RadFlo shocks?
So glad it's working out for you! The fact you have 7-8 inch uptravel is great, too. You can run nice soft valving if you like, and not blow through to the bump stops.
Radflo does make very nice 2.0s. The only issue is that they only offer a 7/8 shaft (cost is more than Fox) and the larger 8AN hose to the reservoir. Stiffer, and again more cost. The Fox is a better value for the TJ IMO.
King doesn't offer 2.0s in a remote reservoir.
Does that shaft present any other issues aside from cost?
Also, I assume RadFlo doesn't take half a year or more to deliver on orders like Fox does? That has to be the most annoying thing with Fox is how long it takes to get some shit from them.
I need shocks for my outboard, hence my inquiring mind
The Fox 2.0s with LSC are backordered until at least February.
Does that shaft present any other issues aside from cost?
Also, I assume RadFlo doesn't take half a year or more to deliver on orders like Fox does? That has to be the most annoying thing with Fox is how long it takes to get some shit from them.
I need shocks for my outboard, hence my inquiring mind
The Fox 2.0s with LSC are backordered until at least February.
Yes, right now they are about 8-10 weeks. And they most often deliver when they say they do. Have only had two orders that were delayed.
No issues except cost and stiffer hose routing (longer hose too IIRC). And they do 10% off for a three day period for Black Friday. Cool thing with them is you can spec your valving, hose ends (90 or stright), ect.
I know @David Kishpaugh ended up with a set of mine that he set up on a TJ, maybe he can speak to the hose routing.
Does that shaft present any other issues aside from cost?
Also, I assume RadFlo doesn't take half a year or more to deliver on orders like Fox does? That has to be the most annoying thing with Fox is how long it takes to get some shit from them.
I need shocks for my outboard, hence my inquiring mind
The Fox 2.0s with LSC are backordered until at least February.
Have you checked on 11s lately? I haven't in a few weeks. I do have a couple LSC adjusters here and two12s. Haven't fully perfected the tune with the LSC yet, though. Fox does the same standard 30/90 with their LSC shocks, but when I put a quite light stack in Sri's it's still rough as hell.
The 11" shocks with LSC are the ones that are backordered. I haven't checked on the 12", but last time I did, they had them in stock.
I know I could fit 12" in the front if I wanted to, but it would be really tight, and I think more work than it's ultimately worth.
I'm going to shoot you a PM so I don't derail this thread.
Has anyone gotten good results tuning Bilstein 7100s for the tj? They seem to meet all the requirements for an outboard. They are also available in a “short body” configuration for the 10”, 12”, and 14” travel lengths which should make the outboard process easier too.
OP