Steering and suspension help needed

[someguysjeep]

is it missing a couple degrees of separation? the sway link mount looks different then mine did IIRC. and it seems unusual i can look past the bottom of the diff and see a control arm,. maybe my eyes are foggy this morn but is that an LP housing? pinion looks high for some reason , maybe it's the angle?

 

[mrblaine]

Since you have eliminated most the the usual culprits here is a couple of steering box issues you might check.

Steering boxes are designed to have dead spot when output shaft is centered i.e. going straight down the road. Check to see if output shaft is centered when your TJ is going straight. If not adjust the drag link to center the output shaft and then pull the steering and reinstall it in the correct position. Lots of shops when installing a drop pitman arm and new drag link miss this step.

Another thing you might check is the power steer pump pressure.

Every aspect of the steering from the steering wheel down to the output shaft where the pitman attaches is keyed. There is no pulling the steering to reinstall in the correct position since it can not be installed any other way. The consequences of not installing it correctly show up fast.

You are correct that the sector shaft needs to be centered in the non assist position but the draglink adjustment to center the steering wheel does that.

 

[mrblaine]

is it missing a couple degrees of separation? the sway link mount looks different then mine did IIRC. and it seems unusual i can look past the bottom of the diff and see a control arm,. maybe my eyes are foggy this morn but is that an LP housing? pinion looks high for some reason , maybe it's the angle?

Generally the lack of horseshoe centering cams on the lower control arm mounts and the thick sway bar link mounts point to it being an XJ 30. The part I'm a bit fuzzy on is if they continued the thicker mounts for the sway bar links onto the 2000 and 01 Low Pinion versions.

 

[mrblaine]

is it missing a couple degrees of separation? the sway link mount looks different then mine did IIRC. and it seems unusual i can look past the bottom of the diff and see a control arm,. maybe my eyes are foggy this morn but is that an LP housing? pinion looks high for some reason , maybe it's the angle?

Found it, it is a HP 30.

 

[hosejockey61]

What condition are your tires in? I had a guy come into my shop saying another shop quoted him $3k to rebuild the front end. His tires were cupped really bad and in need of replacement. New tires solved his issue completely

 

[SuperTramp]

What condition are your tires in? I had a guy come into my shop saying another shop quoted him $3k to rebuild the front end. His tires were cupped really bad and in need of replacement. New tires solved his issue completely

Tires have about 2k miles on them. One only has 10 miles after I stuck a stick in the sidewall trying to let a car pass me on a narrow dirt road last weekend.

 

[bobthetj03]

Did I see that correct that you measured 2.0* at the front diff flats? I could be mistaken, but you should be able to take that measurement and subtract from 12* for a Dana 30. That would give you 10* of caster.

 

[SuperTramp]

Did I see that correct that you measured 2.0* at the front diff flats? I could be mistaken, but you should be able to take that measurement and subtract from 12* for a Dana 30. That would give you 10* of caster.

I did measure 2, but I don’t think this front axle is original. From what I understand, all 98 TJs would have had low pinion pumpkins. I don’t know what the separation is on a high pinion.

 

[bobthetj03]

I did measure 2, but I don’t think this front axle is original. From what I understand, all 98 TJs would have had low pinion pumpkins. I don’t know what the separation is on a high pinion.

Ok, I didn't know you had a HP30. That changes everything. Carry on. Hope you figure it out. As far as the shimmy at 68. Try rotating tires front to back to see if it's a tire issue. Even new tires could have a slipped belt or something fubar. Quality control these days is far from good.

 

[someguysjeep]

I don’t know what the separation is on a high pinion.

9* for an XJ HP Dana 30......... IIRC. that would jive with the 2* and the heavy 7* (since the top of the BJ is not a machined surface).


12* for TJ Dana 30 LP
and 6* for JK Dana 30 HP, i think.

 

[IJK]

Every aspect of the steering from the steering wheel down to the output shaft where the pitman attaches is keyed. There is no pulling the steering to reinstall in the correct position since it can not be installed any other way. The consequences of not installing it correctly show up fast.

You are correct that the sector shaft needs to be centered in the non assist position but the draglink adjustment to center the steering wheel does that.

Blaine I think we are saying the same thing, use the dragline to center the output shaft on the dead spot in the steering box. Then if the steering wheel is not centered you would pull the steering wheel and rechock it to center.

 

[mrblaine]

Blaine I think we are saying the same thing, use the dragline to center the output shaft on the dead spot in the steering box. Then if the steering wheel is not centered you would pull the steering wheel and rechock it to center.

We are not saying the same thing since the steering wheel is keyed to a specific spot on the steering shaft and is not able to be clocked to any other position. The same holds true for the connection where the steering shaft exits the firewall and hooks onto the lower shaft, and the lower end of that shaft is keyed to the input shaft of the steering gear. The output or sector shaft on the steering gear is also keyed at 4 places or every 90 degrees. Since the full rotation of the sector shaft is right at 90 degrees, it is impossible to install the pitman incorrectly.

 

[IJK]

We are not saying the same thing since the steering wheel is keyed to a specific spot on the steering shaft and is not able to be clocked to any other position. The same holds true for the connection where the steering shaft exits the firewall and hooks onto the lower shaft, and the lower end of that shaft is keyed to the input shaft of the steering gear. The output or sector shaft on the steering gear is also keyed at 4 places or every 90 degrees. Since the full rotation of the sector shaft is right at 90 degrees, it is impossible to install the pitman incorrectly.

Thanks

 

[mrblaine]

Sure, we are saying the same thing, the only difference is you are assuming the Chinese drop pitman arm broaching was correctly clocked when made and the steering shaft is correctly clocked. The OP has checked all the regular culprits for steering problems, the OP is now looking for advice from the pros, like you, for the not so obvious problems to check.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm simply pointing out that your assertion that any clocking can be done is wrong and why, so again, we are not saying the same thing. You can NOT change the factory clocking of any aspect of the steering from the steering wheel down to the sector shaft splines due to all of them being keyed to install in a specific unalterable rotation relative to the next piece in line.

 

[IJK]

I'm not assuming anything. I'm simply pointing out that your assertion that any clocking can be done is wrong and why, so again, we are not saying the same thing. You can NOT change the factory clocking of any aspect of the steering from the steering wheel down to the sector shaft splines due to all of them being keyed to install in a specific unalterable rotation relative to the next piece in line.

Thanks

 

[SuperTramp]

Your analysis works fine if all Chinese pitman arms are correctly clocked when broached. I have on the shelf behind my desk an incorrectly broached drop pitman arm that cause the owner to chase steering problems for months. Buy Chinese parts, when necessary, but verify.

I do not believe the dropped pitman arm has been changed. It has even steering left to right if this makes a difference.

 

[someguysjeep]

I'm digging myself a deeper hole at this point. I took the upper control arms off today and adjusted them one 360 degree turn tighter (i.e. the ends of the control arms got closer together. It now seems to have even less return to center than before. I took a couple measurements with a small angle finder just to see if I'm even in the ballpark.

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what if you went 2 turns the other way, just to know?
if 1 turn added some put that turn back and give it 1 turn more the other way see what that does for it, maybe.
eliminate everything b4 spending $. some are making it on 4-6* 7.7 (if that's accurate) seems the other side of needed.

 

[SuperTramp]

A little update, several months later…

I replaced the steering box with a red head unit. Though I’d say it improved the overall steering, it did not help with the return to center or the wobble.

Just because I was under the Jeep with tools, I decided to play with the lower control arms in the front and I lengthened them 1” on either side. Made no difference, but did bring to light a question. As far as I understand the LCAs are mainly for locating the axle and the upper control arms for adjusting the caster. How do you properly set the position of the front axle?

I’m debating redoing the ball joints and maybe front u-joints as that seems to be where this became a problem.

 

[cpwolf]

A little update, several months later…

I replaced the steering box with a red head unit. Though I’d say it improved the overall steering, it did not help with the return to center or the wobble.

Just because I was under the Jeep with tools, I decided to play with the lower control arms in the front and I lengthened them 1” on either side. Made no difference, but did bring to light a question. As far as I understand the LCAs are mainly for locating the axle and the upper control arms for adjusting the caster. How do you properly set the position of the front axle?

I’m debating redoing the ball joints and maybe front u-joints as that seems to be where this became a problem.

From the How To area, the short answer is to pull the springs. Get the bump stop cup centered on the lower spring perch on both sides.

Then put in springs and at ride height measure the axle to a frame point on both sides so that its exactly square.

Then set uppers for Caster and Pinion angle

 

[SuperTramp]

At least one of the problems was resolved today with tire balancing. The tech said one was so far out that they physically couldn’t put enough weights to correct it. They did what they could, put it on the back and the wobble is gone.

This leaves only the lack of return to center which I think may be the new ball joints. I had a shop install new u-joints, ball joints and hub bearings, as well as a couple other disrelated things and that seemed to be where the issue started. Before I go for replacing the ball joints, is there a test to see if that’s what’s causing the lack of return to center?