Input shaft not aligning to pilot bearing

[B1Toad]

Should I unbolt the transmission and bolt the engine in first, then slide the trans up? I've been debating unbolting the driveshafts to do that for a couple days now

Well I've never mated a standard with the engine swinging on a hoist but I do know that with the engine bolted securely in place it was very easy to slip the transmission into place, all of 5 minutes. You might have to raise the Jeep though to get it under there.

The cheap HF transmission jack works very well. The only drawback is the adjustable tilt doesn't work that great so I used plywood shims instead.

 

[TonyArms]

Well I've never mated a standard with the engine swinging on a hoist but I do know that with the engine bolted securely in place it was very easy to slip the transmission into place, all of 5 minutes. You might have to raise the Jeep though to get it under there.

The cheap HF transmission jack works very well. The only drawback is the adjustable tilt doesn't work that great so I used plywood shims instead.

I have one of those jacks. I've used it to replace rear subframes. i've even built an adjustable table for it to get it high enough to work with my 4 ft lift.

 

[TNHEADDUCK]

Should I unbolt the transmission and bolt the engine in first, then slide the trans up? I've been debating unbolting the driveshafts to do that for a couple days now

Yes, I would think it would be hard to stab the trans if you have 2 things moving. I have never tried it that way or left the driveshafts hooked up either. I have probably put in 50 or so throughout the years.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Yes, I would think it would be hard to stab the trans if you have 2 things moving. I have never tried it that way or left the driveshafts hooked up either. I have probably put in 50 or so throughout the years.

It doesn't sound like he's got two things moving, I think the trans is installed and he's trying to install the engine. But maybe I've misread it.

 

[mrblaine]

I won't install a transmission to an engine without guide bolts installed.

Nor will I and it helps to have a second set of eyes to watch the relationship between the bellhousing and back of the motor to get them parallel both ways. Look from the side, look from under. When it is parallel, the pilot on the input shaft will line right up.

 

[WyattCrafty1]

It doesn't sound like he's got two things moving, I think the trans is installed and he's trying to install the engine. But maybe I've misread it.

It is but the trans moves a little, even being bolted to the plate. I'm working on unbolting the thing right now

 

[freedom_in_4low]

It is but the trans moves a little, even being bolted to the plate. I'm working on unbolting the thing right now

That seems like a bunch of work but ok.

I've put transmissions in where engine was already there and I've installed engines where transmissions were already there...didn't seem like either one was any easier than the other, just different. The key either way is having control of the pitch of both components.

My favorite was to assemble engine and transmission as a unit and then put them both in together but I haven't done that on a tj so I don't know if it's doable without pulling the grill and condenser.

 

[WyattCrafty1]

T

That seems like a bunch of work but ok.

I've put transmissions in where engine was already there and I've installed engines where transmissions were already there...didn't seem like either one was any easier than the other, just different. The key either way is having control of the pitch of both components.

My favorite was to assemble engine and transmission as a unit and then put them both in together but I haven't done that on a tj so I don't know if it's doable without pulling the grill and condenser.

the entire front end is torn apart already to make it easier to put the engine in. This one doesn't have A/C, and when I went to unbolt the transmission and just do it that way, the nuts inside the frame that hold the plate on either broke off the welds, stripped, or something else I'm not figuring out. It's extremely frustrating, but I guess I just have to shimmy the engine on from the front now. Damn Jeep.

 

[zachpeakee]

Should I unbolt the transmission and bolt the engine in first, then slide the trans up? I've been debating unbolting the driveshafts to do that for a couple days now

You're absolutely going to catch HELL trying to mount the transmission if the engine isn't mounted.

I swapped my transmission the first time with the TCase installed, and that was hell in itself.
Second time was a breeze with everything unbolted, and just installing the transmission.

If you've got driveshafts and everything still attached, Engine just free-swinging from a hoist/etc, I completely understand now why there's an issue.

It's finnicky. You've got about 1" of lee-way for it to connect. Any additional angles or extra oddities involved are just going to delay you further.


As far as the stripped Skid Plate bolts, they're nutserts, I'd bet they ARE stripped, they're practically irreparable, and replacing them SUCKS.
I used a cutoff wheel, and "X" scored the nutserts, then punched them out, grinded everything back flat, polished with a flap disc, and reinstalled new ones.

@mrblaine sells a kit on Black Magic Brakes. Pair that with his Nutsert Tool.
It makes the headache a little more tolerable.

Also to note, I would be extremely hesitant on NOT replacing the nutserts, depending on how many are stripped.
They're the only thing holding your skid-plate on, and the skid-plate is the only thing holding your transmission.
Drop a skid plate, and the guts of the jeep drop with it.

Best of luck to you!
You're in something I like to call a "shituation"

 

[WyattCrafty1]

You're absolutely going to catch HELL trying to mount the transmission if the engine isn't mounted.

I swapped my transmission the first time with the TCase installed, and that was hell in itself.
Second time was a breeze with everything unbolted, and just installing the transmission.

If you've got driveshafts and everything still attached, Engine just free-swinging from a hoist/etc, I completely understand now why there's an issue.

It's finnicky. You've got about 1" of lee-way for it to connect. Any additional angles or extra oddities involved are just going to delay you further.


As far as the stripped Skid Plate bolts, they're nutserts, I'd bet they ARE stripped, they're practically irreparable, and replacing them SUCKS.
I used a cutoff wheel, and "X" scored the nutserts, then punched them out, grinded everything back flat, polished with a flap disc, and reinstalled new ones.

View attachment 494021

View attachment 494022

View attachment 494023

@mrblaine sells a kit on Black Magic Brakes. Pair that with his Nutsert Tool.
It makes the headache a little more tolerable.

Also to note, I would be extremely hesitant on NOT replacing the nutserts, depending on how many are stripped.
They're the only thing holding your skid-plate on, and the skid-plate is the only thing holding your transmission.
Drop a skid plate, and the guts of the jeep drop with it.

Best of luck to you!
You're in something I like to call a "shituation"

The driveshafts are on, I never took the trans out. Engine replacement. It's still connected but I should probably replace the "nutserts", as you call them, and go from there. I was really hoping to have it done this week, but I suppose that's simply not possible at this point. If I drop the transmission and bolt in the engine, would it go in easier, do you think? Again, the transmission and driveshafts are still in, and I'd honestly prefer to refrain from dropping the tranny, but if it's the only way then I suppose it has to be done. Could I attach the engine as it stands, do you think? Or would it be more of a headache?

 

[zachpeakee]

The driveshafts are on, I never took the trans out. Engine replacement. It's still connected but I should probably replace the "nutserts", as you call them, and go from there. I was really hoping to have it done this week, but I suppose that's simply not possible at this point. If I drop the transmission and bolt in the engine, would it go in easier, do you think? Again, the transmission and driveshafts are still in, and I'd honestly prefer to refrain from dropping the tranny, but if it's the only way then I suppose it has to be done. Could I attach the engine as it stands, do you think? Or would it be more of a headache?

I've never personally swapped an engine WITHOUT also dropping the transmission, so I'm not sure.
When I swapped my NV3550 for my current AX15, I just unbolted everything, pushed the trans jack out of the way, and muscled the trans back onto the engine, then reinstalled everything (Transfer case, driveshafts, etc.)
Took all of 15 minutes to get the transmission from the floor, onto the engine.

I would assume it would be significantly more difficult to align the engine to the trans, just due to the weird angles you need and wiggle room available.
It's difficult enough to align a transmission as is, but it's a lot more manageable than trying to align an entire engine. (especially a heavy ass 4.0)
The transmission is only about 120lb by itself.

IF it were me, and the engine was already out, I'd just go ahead and drop the Trans, install the engine, sort out the stripped nutsert issue, and reinstall transmission.

The fact that your nutserts are stripped, you have to drop the skid anyways to fix them.
Engine is already out, so realistically you're only 6 nutserts and 2 driveshafts away from the transmission being dropped.

At this point, i'd 100% drop it all, make the repairs, and throw it back together the easier way.
Also gives you a chance to replace any leaky transmission/TCase seals in the process.

 

[WyattCrafty1]

You're absolutely going to catch HELL trying to mount the transmission if the engine isn't mounted.

I swapped my transmission the first time with the TCase installed, and that was hell in itself.
Second time was a breeze with everything unbolted, and just installing the transmission.

If you've got driveshafts and everything still attached, Engine just free-swinging from a hoist/etc, I completely understand now why there's an issue.

It's finnicky. You've got about 1" of lee-way for it to connect. Any additional angles or extra oddities involved are just going to delay you further.


As far as the stripped Skid Plate bolts, they're nutserts, I'd bet they ARE stripped, they're practically irreparable, and replacing them SUCKS.
I used a cutoff wheel, and "X" scored the nutserts, then punched them out, grinded everything back flat, polished with a flap disc, and reinstalled new ones.

View attachment 494021

View attachment 494022

View attachment 494023

@mrblaine sells a kit on Black Magic Brakes. Pair that with his Nutsert Tool.
It makes the headache a little more tolerable.

Also to note, I would be extremely hesitant on NOT replacing the nutserts, depending on how many are stripped.
They're the only thing holding your skid-plate on, and the skid-plate is the only thing holding your transmission.
Drop a skid plate, and the guts of the jeep drop with it.

Best of luck to you!
You're in something I like to call a "shituation"

How expensive are the nutserts? I would like to get that done, and I think it would make life easier in the long run

 

[zachpeakee]

How expensive are the nutserts? I would like to get that done, and I think it would make life easier in the long run

About $100 total, for everything.

You can grab the nutserts here:
https://blackmagicbrakes.com/ols/pr...late-sae-12-13-nutsert-for-87-02-jeep-yjtj-03
and the nutsert installation tool here:
https://blackmagicbrakes.com/ols/products/nutsert-setting-tool-sae-for-87-02

 

[P man]

How expensive are the nutserts? I would like to get that done, and I think it would make life easier in the long run

Black magic brakes is a supporter of this forum so that's where most guys buy the nutserts from. If you want excellent product and service talk to Blaine.

 

[WyattCrafty1]

I've never personally swapped an engine WITHOUT also dropping the transmission, so I'm not sure.
When I swapped my NV3550 for my current AX15, I just unbolted everything, pushed the trans jack out of the way, and muscled the trans back onto the engine, then reinstalled everything (Transfer case, driveshafts, etc.)
Took all of 15 minutes to get the transmission from the floor, onto the engine.

I would assume it would be significantly more difficult to align the engine to the trans, just due to the weird angles you need and wiggle room available.
It's difficult enough to align a transmission as is, but it's a lot more manageable than trying to align an entire engine. (especially a heavy ass 4.0)
The transmission is only about 120lb by itself.

IF it were me, and the engine was already out, I'd just go ahead and drop the Trans, install the engine, sort out the stripped nutsert issue, and reinstall transmission.

The fact that your nutserts are stripped, you have to drop the skid anyways to fix them.
Engine is already out, so realistically you're only 6 nutserts and 2 driveshafts away from the transmission being dropped.

At this point, i'd 100% drop it all, make the repairs, and throw it back together the easier way.
Also gives you a chance to replace any leaky transmission/TCase seals in the process.

Alright, I figured it'd be easier that way. Thanks so much. You've got a good point about the seals as well, and would I have to drop the trans entirely, or just enough that I can get stuff lined up? I really don't want to have to pull the shift knob and boots.

 

[TJuser]

I just replaced my clutch this weekend and didnt have a tranny jack and had to do it in a cold shed with a gravel floor lol

What worked for me was 3 ratchet straps. those are legendary. use 2 to basically sling the transmission and put the hooks in the holes in your frame. Then the 3rd strap i hooked to the transmission and front axle to pull it forward. Like others have said, make sure the angle is right. Then I got it close enough for the threads on a couple bolts to catch, and basically used those as an aligning tool

The nice thing about having it slung by the straps is you dont have a jack in the way, you can push the tranny around under the jeep relatively easy and you can raise and lower it (although be careful). And when raising it up, ratchet it up into place again

 

[freedom_in_4low]

I just replaced my clutch this weekend and didnt have a tranny jack and had to do it in a cold shed with a gravel floor lol

What worked for me was 3 ratchet straps. those are legendary. use 2 to basically sling the transmission and put the hooks in the holes in your frame. Then the 3rd strap i hooked to the transmission and front axle to pull it forward. Like others have said, make sure the angle is right. Then I got it close enough for the threads on a couple bolts to catch, and basically used those as an aligning tool

The nice thing about having it slung by the straps is you dont have a jack in the way, you can push the tranny around under the jeep relatively easy and you can raise and lower it (although be careful). And when raising it up, ratchet it up into place again

That's how I used to do it. Dropped the transmission out of my Bronco II, then dropped another one out of an Explorer in a gravel driveway in the cold, took it home and installed it in my B2. Did the same with the C6 in a full size Bronco when I tore out the center of the flex plate and had to replace it. I found it easier to move around in the sling than I did with the trans jack when I did my AX15 swap in '22. Next time I pull a transmission I'll probably go back to the ratchet strap sling.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Alright, I figured it'd be easier that way. Thanks so much. You've got a good point about the seals as well, and would I have to drop the trans entirely, or just enough that I can get stuff lined up? I really don't want to have to pull the shift knob and boots.

I'm not sure it would be worth the effort if you didn't have it disconnected from everything.

 

[TNHEADDUCK]

I would think if you had a buddy or 2 to help watch the gap between the trans and engine you could get the motor to go on the input shaft with some line up bolts and persuasion if your not wanting to fix the skid nutserts right now.

 

[WyattCrafty1]

I would think if you had a buddy or 2 to help watch the gap between the trans and engine you could get the motor to go on the input shaft with some line up bolts and persuasion if your not wanting to fix the skid nutserts right now.

Alright, but what if the gaps are the same. I did this last weekend, had a few buddies over, and the gaps were the same all around, but no progress. Input shaft and clutch splines were aligned. Should I take the clutch off and check pilot bearing fitment again?