Sab-a-dab-a-doo! The back-country LJ build has officially started

[NashvilleTJ]

The main bar for the SwayLOC, as with the stock bar, would break if you literally flexed to the extremes from one side to the other. It’s limited only by vehicle weight.

Ryan is poking me a bit on this, as I once I flexed the rig in the shop with an engine hoist - Swayloc in the stiff setting. For me, what failed was the steel arm on that side. It folded in slow motion like a wet noodle - literally right before my eyes as I was standing right there in front watching with that tire six feet off the ground.

Unfortunately, one of the very few things of which I don't have a picture.

 

[sab]

Ryan is poking me a bit on this, as I once I flexed the rig in the shop with an engine hoist - Swayloc in the stiff setting. For me, what failed was the steel arm on that side. It folded in slow motion like a wet noodle - literally right before my eyes as I was standing right there in front watching with that tire six feet off the ground.

Unfortunately, one of the very few things of which I don't have a picture.

Wow, the arms are definitely not nearly as capable of handling a side load as they are the vertical load, but I’m surprised the side load was high enough to fold an arm!

 

[BlueC]

For me, what failed was the steel arm on that side. It folded in slow motion like a wet noodle

That's surprising. I would have guessed the link bars would have given way before anything else. Seems like that would be a better safety feature too.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Wow, the arms are definitely not nearly as capable of handling a side load as they are the vertical load, but I’m surprised the side load was high enough to fold an arm!

You and me both. It took quite of bit of pressure on the 30-ton press to straighten it.

 

[sab]

That's surprising. I would have guessed the link bars would have given way before anything else. Seems like that would be a better safety feature too.

As long as they are installed properly (no contact with other objects), those links are only subjected to tensile and compressive loads (no bending). As such, they should be very strong. But then again, that side load failure wouldn’t be something I’d expect, either, so what do I know?

 

[NashvilleTJ]

That's surprising. I would have guessed the link bars would have given way before anything else. Seems like that would be a better safety feature too.

Even more surprising to see half inch steel bending over and cork screwing about a foot from your face (I backed up right away, as you might imagine ). Funny that it happened so slowly - it must have taken 3 or 4 seconds for the bar to twist around to the right.

 

[sab]

The bending could have been reducing the load due to the geometry changing, and it was likely work-hardening (so getting stronger), and that might explain the slow speed. That’s what’s called a yield failure, not an ultimate failure. Yield failures are slower than ultimate failures by their nature. Ultimate failures are always dramatic - usually loud!

 

[Rickyd]

As long as they are installed properly (no contact with other objects), those links are only subjected to tensile and compressive loads (no bending). As such, they should be very strong. But then again, that side load failure wouldn’t be something I’d expect, either, so what do I know?

Suspension flex is going to move the pivot points to the side,introducing side load. Enough flex and a heavy eough rig like his found the limit apparently!

 

[sab]

Enough flex and a heavy eough rig like his found the limit apparently!

Indeed

 

[NashvilleTJ]

... Enough flex and a heavy enough rig like his found the limit apparently!

Indeed

Fat Shamers!

 

[Woodrow]

A curious disruption to that feel and these numbers is that shocks will shift this sense of balance. For years, I have advocated a stiffer Antirock and SwayLoc setting than the loosest setting precisely because of that sense of balance. As soon as the DSC reservoirs went onto my shocks, I very quickly moved my SwayLoc to it's loosest setting and the entire rig is still far more balanced and stable than it was before the DSCs.

Why do you think that is? Although I'm generally familiar with the many of various ways shocks can provide support (mostly from a mountain bike background), I am not versed on your shocks. Are they firmer with respect to low speed compression or rebound damping? Are they a gas shock and so provide some additional spring rate? Or something else?

 

[jjvw]

Why do you think that is? Although I'm generally familiar with the many of various ways shocks can provide support (mostly from a mountain bike background), I am not versed on your shocks. Are they firmer with respect to low speed compression or rebound damping? Are they a gas shock and so provide some additional spring rate? Or something else?

There is a lot going on that I barely understand. All I can say is that what my shocks are doing will make you question everything you thought you knew about what shocks do.

 

[Rickyd]

Why do you think that is? Although I'm generally familiar with the many of various ways shocks can provide support (mostly from a mountain bike background), I am not versed on your shocks. Are they firmer with respect to low speed compression or rebound damping? Are they a gas shock and so provide some additional spring rate? Or something else?

Here's a short article on the fox dsc. Clear as mud!
https://accutuneoffroad.com/articles/how-fox-dsc-dual-speed-compression-adjusters-work/

 

[Woodrow]

There is a lot going on that I barely understand. All I can say is that what my shocks are doing will make you question everything you thought you knew about what shocks do.

Do you adjust the shocks street to trail or for different trails?

 

[jjvw]

Do you adjust the shocks street to trail or for different trails?

I have a definite street setting I gravitate to, and a less defined off-road range that I am still learning about. There are different settings I know will arise based on high speed washboard vs rock crawling as examples because the shock movements are quite different.

 

[Woodrow]

I have a definite street setting I gravitate to, and a less defined off-road range that I am still learning about. There are different settings I know will arise based on high speed washboard vs rock crawling as examples because the shock movements are quite different.

It can take some paying attention and effort to adjust suspension. My Fox MTB rear shock has separate adjustments for high and low speed compression as well as high and low speed rebound. It incorporates an air spring which is adjustable, of course, for both pressure and volume. Pressure adjusts the spring rate and volume effects the ramp up. Significant changes to either will require changing all your compression and rebound settings. It can give me a headache, but is also pretty dang good once its dailed.

I will absolutely look into the Fox DSCs when I outboard/stretch and mid-arm (hopefully next year).

 

[bty34]

The reinforcement pieces are like oddly-shaped weld washers and nut washers that get welded on either side of the frame-side lower control arm mounts to prevent them from folding over if the rig comes down on a rock. The uppers also get a conventional round nut washer to make assembly easier. Here they are after I primed them:
View attachment 597118

To clamp them, Mr. Blaine told me that double-nutting works pretty well using a longer mounting bolt with a spacer and the second nut to clamp the nut plates, so last weekend I made four of these spacers:
View attachment 597119

To install them, I first put the weld washer side on, with a JJ in place:
View attachment 597120

Then I tightened the nut on the other side, taking care to line it up so that the nut washer for the other side is oriented correctly:
View attachment 597121

Next, I put the spacer in place and tightened the second nut down to hold it in place:
View attachment 597122

And now it's lunch time! After lunch, I'll take a wire wheel and remove the zinc primer in the weld area, since, as Jeff pointed out some time back, it's best to not actually weld through the weld-through primer. Then I'll weld those up, along with the upper nut washers. Stay tuned!

Those look good. I don't enjoy straightening those. Much nicer to add some strength ahead of time in the shop.

 

[sab]

I had to work Saturday to catch up on things, so I only had Sunday to work on the LJ. I hate it when work life gets in the way of my build.

I ran out of time to post yesterday, so I'm doing it tonight. Continuing the cutting brakes, I needed to figure out where to mount the lever/master cylinder assembly inside the console. I had made some short levers awhile back (see Post #556) so that I could put the assembly inside the console without the levers hitting the front wall of the console, allowing me to mark the location for the slots on the console. I mounted the console to the floor and set the lever assembly inside. And then I moved the assembly as close to the parking brake lever assembly as I could so that the cup holders would be as useful as possible (not very), with the lever tops almost touching the front inner wall of the console, and marked the holes with a fine point marker:

I used circles inside, and the center dots are only for rough-reference. Next, I used the aluminum backer plate that will go on the bottom side of the tub to more precisely mark the hole centers. To do so, I used transfer screws, one at a time. If you don't know what transfer screws are, they are similar to transfer punches, but they look like set screws with a point on them:

There's one screw at the front and two at the rear of the assembly, so I started with one of the rear screws so that I could use the other rear hole along with the front hole to align it to the circles I'd drawn. After getting it lined up, I lightly tapped the transfer screw itself to mark the center, and then I used a proper center punch to enlarge it. Then, I did the same with the other rear hole, keeping the first transfer screw in place so that I could "feel" the first transfer screw drop into the punch mark. And finally, I did the third one. Here's a photo of the sequence:

Notice how the tub has a radius at the lower right in the photos above? I did, too, and it means that my backing plate has an interference problem:

So, I went to my trusty companion, the hacksaw, for assistance:

Interference problem solved:

Finally, I mounted the assembly:

And the bottom side:

The backing plate is 7071 (just kidding, Savvy-watchers, it's 7075-T6) with heli-coils in the threaded holes for durability. I marked the console at the top of the levers before I removed the console for the picture above. More on that at a later date.

Next up is to plumb the three lines from the master cylinder back to the double 90° bulkhead fittings that penetrate the tub. However, I discovered one problem. The K-Tool flaring tool I bought to make the flares can't be used on such shot lines because the dies are too long, and I can't have two flare nuts on the tube with enough room left to fit in the die. Since I'm using stainless steel brake tubing, and because it's challenging to double-flare stainless tubing, I chose AN fittings because they only require single flares. I have a 37° Rigid flaring tool on the way, as it gets pretty good reviews, and its die is much shorter. I hope it works!

Stay tuned...

See Post #608 for the continuation of the cutting brakes project.

 

[Wildman]

I had to work Saturday to catch up on things, so I only had Sunday to work on the LJ. I hate it when work life gets in the way of my build.

I ran out of time to post yesterday, so I'm doing it tonight. Continuing the cutting brakes, I needed to figure out where to mount the lever/master cylinder assembly inside the console. I had made some short levers awhile back (see Post #556) so that I could put the assembly inside the console without the levers hitting the front wall of the console, allowing me to mark the location for the slots on the console. I mounted the console to the floor and set the lever assembly inside. And then I moved the assembly as close to the parking brake lever assembly as I could so that the cup holders would be as useful as possible (not very), with the lever tops almost touching the front inner wall of the console, and marked the holes with a fine point marker:
View attachment 601780

I used circles inside, and the center dots are only for rough-reference. Next, I used the aluminum backer plate that will go on the bottom side of the tub to more precisely mark the hole centers. To do so, I used transfer screws, one at a time. If you don't know what transfer screws are, they are similar to transfer punches, but they look like set screws with a point on them:
View attachment 601781

There's one screw at the front and two at the rear of the assembly, so I started with one of the rear screws so that I could use the other rear hole along with the front hole to align it to the circles I'd drawn. After getting it lined up, I lightly tapped the transfer screw itself to mark the center, and then I used a proper center punch to enlarge it. Then, I did the same with the other rear hole, keeping the first transfer screw in place so that I could "feel" the first transfer screw drop into the punch mark. And finally, I did the third one. Here's a photo of the sequence:
View attachment 601782

Notice how the tub has a radius at the lower right in the photos above? I did, too, and it means that my backing plate has an interference problem:
View attachment 601783

So, I went to my trusty companion, the hacksaw, for assistance:
View attachment 601784

Interference problem solved:
View attachment 601785

Finally, I mounted the assembly:
View attachment 601786

And the bottom side:
View attachment 601788

The backing plate is 7071 (just kidding, Savvy-watchers, it's 7075-T6) with heli-coils in the threaded holes for durability. I marked the console at the top of the levers before I removed the console for the picture above. More on that at a later date.

Next up is to plumb the three lines from the master cylinder back to the double 90° bulkhead fittings that penetrate the tub. However, I discovered one problem. The K-Tool flaring tool I bought to make the flares can't be used on such shot lines because the dies are too long, and I can't have two flare nuts on the tube with enough room left to fit in the die. Since I'm using stainless steel brake tubing, and because it's challenging to double-flare stainless tubing, I chose AN fittings because they only require single flares. I have a 37° Rigid flaring tool on the way, as it gets pretty good reviews, and its die is much shorter. I hope it works!

Stay tuned...

All I can say is WOW.... I'm not worthy... Between you & Jeff I feel like a total HACK... which I am.

 

[sab]

Have you seen my welds?