05 Flame Red TJ Build
- Thread starter JMT
- Start date
That sucks, I hate shims under the bearings. Arghhhh.....Not looking forward dot the Dana 30
Yea the Dana 30 has them under the bearings on the carrier, but that isn't bad. You just hone out a set of carrier bearings that you can put on and take off by hand. Then start with the exact same shims that were there to start with. Check your backlash. If it is good you are golden and you press on the real ones although you want the carrier to fit tight so you may need to add equal amounts of shims to both sides to tighten it up. You want it to go in pretty tight. Enough so that you need to use a prybar to get it back out.
If you have too much or not enough backlash then you remove or add shims till you get the right backlash before pressing on your bearings. Then once you get the backlash correct as I said before then add equal amounts of shims to make the carrier go in tight.
It is actually easier than out board shims in my opinion because it is all together in one piece. Then you just put it in. If the shims are on the outside you are thing to pry it in with a bunch of loose shims. But you don't have to buy and extra set of bearings if the shims are on the outside.
I hope that makes sense. I don't think you should worry about the Dana 30 it is going to be so much smaller than your 44, that you are going to thing it is a toy like Matels, my first front diff! It is going to go great. Especially when you have such super stars her to support you.
I wish I could move to Texas for a week, and drink beer, and do gears in the Man Cave! I mean what is better than that?
a bit expensive, but if you plan on doing gears more than once, this tool makes it nice.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N6SZ742/?tag=wranglerorg-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N6SZ742/?tag=wranglerorg-20
Actually that is reasonable in my opinion, but probably not after you get done buying gears, bearings, and lockers. I have seen name brands for go just shy of 500. That is really tempting. But I am knocking on wood when I say this. Every rear end I have built, I have never rebuilt, so there are a lot of years in between me building rear ends, so as you say it is pretty expensive for not really being used that much. And now pretty much all of the diffs I am going to build are most likely going to be the same ones so having a set of honed bearings should suffice in my case.
What I really would like is a real press. I might scour craigslist for a used one. I have just been using hammers, sockets, pipes and assembly lube in the past.
Harbor Freight is your friend.
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-H-Frame-Industrial-Heavy-Duty-Floor-Shop-Press-60604.html
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-H-Frame-Industrial-Heavy-Duty-Floor-Shop-Press-60604.html
So I have been talking to Allen about the Dana 30 and the parts. He says that, so I don't have to order an extra set of carrier bearings, he will set up the master kit for outside shims. Meaning rather than shim behind the bearings I can shim behind the races like the dana 35. I am not sure how I feel about that, as I have never done that, but it seems logical to me, and I do like saving money.
Yeah on the 44 I am pretty sure that the shims are on the outside, but on the 30 they are on the inside. But after a quick google search it looks like I can do it either way. In fact it has been too may years, but it looks like if you install an ARB they make you change it to behind the races. That kind of makes me happy about putting in the E-locker up front.
Weirdly if you use an E-locker they make you buy a different set of bearings. I must be because they change how they are shimmed. I am glad Allen is on top of all of that.
BTW I am ordering my gears, kit, and E-locker tomorrow after my RX appointment, so that should put me on par for @JMT's gear change too. We may have to E-Drink beer in our respective Man Caves that weekend!
Weirdly if you use an E-locker they make you buy a different set of bearings. I must be because they change how they are shimmed. I am glad Allen is on top of all of that.
BTW I am ordering my gears, kit, and E-locker tomorrow after my RX appointment, so that should put me on par for @JMT's gear change too. We may have to E-Drink beer in our respective Man Caves that weekend!
Ok after tireless research I found that ARB does in fact make you change the shims from the inside to the outside, but gives you shims in the kit. I found that Eaton makes you change the shims from the inside to the outside but does not give you shims. In fact they suggest using shims from a Chevy. And that their instructions don't include this information. Lucky Allen is on top of all of this.
From Eaton
"Found the answer. Ended up having to call Eaton. They need to update their instructions.
They told me to use shims from a GM 8.5, 7.5 or ford 7.5 axle.
The E-Locker journal on the carrier is larger than stock thus different bearings and shims. I should have thought about shims when I went out to buy the different bearings.
They also recommended to shim outside the bearing. I am pretty sure every dana 30 I have seen has the shims between the bearings and the carrier.
It would seem shimming the outside would be far easier as I wouldn't have to press off the bearings. Is their an advantage to one way or the other?
"
So far I am less impressed with the Eatons than the ARB, but since I already have the eaton in the rear I don't really want an ARB in the front haha.
I will update you more after talking to Allen tomorrow afternoon.
From Eaton
"Found the answer. Ended up having to call Eaton. They need to update their instructions.
They told me to use shims from a GM 8.5, 7.5 or ford 7.5 axle.
The E-Locker journal on the carrier is larger than stock thus different bearings and shims. I should have thought about shims when I went out to buy the different bearings.
They also recommended to shim outside the bearing. I am pretty sure every dana 30 I have seen has the shims between the bearings and the carrier.
It would seem shimming the outside would be far easier as I wouldn't have to press off the bearings. Is their an advantage to one way or the other?
"
So far I am less impressed with the Eatons than the ARB, but since I already have the eaton in the rear I don't really want an ARB in the front haha.
I will update you more after talking to Allen tomorrow afternoon.
Yes, the Dana 44 has shims in the outside. I would think that with a Dana 30 you could do it either way. All you’re trying to do is get the right spacing on each side for the ring to fit proper in the pinion. That is strange about the ARB. Behind the races? That doesn’t compute to me?!&@$ ELockers must have a different size end cap on the carrier or something to require different bearings and races. Maybe E Locker is the way to go
Ok let me see if I can explain this better.
The reason why the Eaton and the ARB make you shim on the outside is because the collar that holds the bearing is bigger than stock which means the stock shims won't fit on the new carriers. That in itself doesn't mean one is better than the other in itself.
So to break it down on the carrier where you press the bearing on is bigger than the same spot on the stock cast carrier which means the ARB adn Eaton take special carrier bearings. That is not an issue with ARB because ARB gives you a stack of shims with their carrier, Eaton says Oh you can use some out of a chevy but don't supply any. But Allen being smart and cool as he is knows this so he is setting up a master kit with the correct shims for my carrier. So it shouldn't be an issue. But I would have been hosed if I bought this from a company that didnt' know there shit. In fact I read on the Internet that this has happened to a lot of people.
If I had it to do over again, I would have chosen the ARB's. Mostly for the fact that their is a lot more info on them, they have been around longer and nothing seems to be obscure. Also if you have problems with an ARB you can buy just about every part for them, but if you have problems with the Eaton there are a few parts, but mostly you have to replace the whole unit. I also ran front and rear ARB's so I know their longevity. I only went with the Eatons to try something new. I wanted to see if they were any better. Off roading I don't know yet, but installing has been a lot tougher.
Eaton gives you a book on how to install it, It is thick, but generic. It doesn't go into things like shimming on the outside of a carrier in a Dana 30. Also it doesn't have any instructions on how to wire the wiring harness. Although the harness is labeled so it wasn't that hard to figure out. I actually wired my own switches in rather than using the stock ones that came with it.
ARB is a lot more forth coming with instructions and parts. I think for me ARB edges the Eatons out so far (knowing that I haven't tested them off road yet) but if the eatons were a couple of hundred dollars cheaper I might be happier with them as it stands they are not good about literature and they are slightly more expensive than the ARB's.
Once I get them in finally and go try them out and if they are awesome and have longevity. I may like them better or at least as much. It is hard to say but I will update if that ever happens.
I am glad I bought from Allen. I was originally going to buy from Summit and it was a couple of hundred dollars more and nothing on there about needing special bearings for the carrier.
I know, but let’s see how it turns out. And I’m not sure why @ac_ said the E-locker was slightly more expensive than ARB. I was thinking the opposite after the onboard air, etc... is all set up.
And @ac_, I think you’re explaining it well. Allen is the man. Good call going with him....It’ll turn out well
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