Happy Columbus Day

If the EPA existed 100+ years ago, Colorado might have fewer SuperFund sites from unregulated mining operations.

I use libertarianism as a starting point to think about how to find a balance between control and a free for all. I don't trust unfettered laissez faire capitalism to have society's long term interests in mind any more than I trust the government to make choices in my best interest.
I think that's a reasonable way to look at it.

Don't spend take money for the government beyond what is absolutely needed. Don't spend government money unless absolutely needed.

The government will never the the answer to all the world's problems as some would like to believe and the same can be said of the private sector.
 
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A "quick google search" answers that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_politicians_convicted_of_fraud
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes
:p


AOC and Ted Cruz are actually working a rather unlikely alliance against allowing former congressmen/women from becoming lobbyists, which is one of the main ways so many of them gain their wealth from public office.

So there is some reason to have hope for the political system, even though as you mentioned, we have a very corrupt official who was elected president.


And local government/taxes do handle the majority of this. However, there is need of a federal police force above state law enforcement. Reasons for this can be found by looking back at much of what happened during much of the civil rights movement. In particular, just look at Bull Connor.

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So here's my problem with libertarianism. It's the same problem that's coming from a lot of conservative media nowadays, which is that it's mostly arguments against things based on problems with existing things.

You don't like high taxes? Ok, that's fine.
You don't like government corruption? Yea, we agree.

But what *do* you want instead?

We can all agree that tax dollars shouldn't be wasted, should be kept as low as possible, and that they shouldn't be controlled by corrupt officials. However, just calling for and end to all those things is just replacing some problems with even worse ones.

Pointing out problems doesn't do much when you don't have any solutions and libertarianism tends not to have many solutions.

Well thought out and stated.

In the absence of government control, the private sector and the private citizen will rise to the occasion. What particular scenario would you like to hear ideas about what I want?

The Cajun Navy is a fine example of normal people saving lives in natural disasters. As far as government, I would like to see strict term limits on congressional service. Funny that the President has a term limit (law passed by congress) yet there is no congressional term limit. I would also like to see congressional salaries mirror the median household income. Lobbyists should be hung on the steps of the Capitol and instead of tax returns being posted for all candidates, how about medical records with all prescription drugs used?

I also would like for people serving in congress to have made a living in the private sector in which they will have to return to after their very short term "serving the public." The term "service" came about because there was a time when it was less lucrative to serve as a senator than to work in the private sector.
 
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I also would like to make it mandatory that every single voter passes the US citizenship test, and yes, I am talking about those of us born here in the states
 
And local government/taxes do handle the majority of this. However, there is need of a federal police force above state law enforcement. Reasons for this can be found by looking back at much of what happened during much of the civil rights movement. In particular, just look at Bull Connor.

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Democrats were so brutal to those with different skin colors, but a federal police force is a dangerous game of chess. I am not speaking about the national guard here as they are not under federal control, and for good reason.

Who would you suggest be in charge of these "national police?"
 
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That's why I voted libertarian. Even though it was a wasted vote, I felt it was the lesser of many evils, including Trump. I hate that we are continually in a place where voting to keep someone out of office is more important than voting to put the right person in office. I feel like it's been that way my entire adult life.

I feel the same way. I couldn't bring myself to vote for Romney even though apparently he was right about the Russians. Obama and the democrats laughed him out of the building saying "the 80s called and wants their policy back." Fast forward 4 years...
 
John Baron, Pierre Delecto, and Max Power walk into a bar...
 
Well thought out and stated.

In the absence of government control, the private sector and the private citizen will rise to the occasion. What particular scenario would you like to hear ideas about what I want?

The Cajun Navy is a fine example of normal people saving lives in natural disasters. As far as government, I would like to see strict term limits on congressional service. Funny that the President has a term limit (law passed by congress) yet there is no congressional term limit. I would also like to see congressional salaries mirror the median household income. Lobbyists should be hung on the steps of the Capitol and instead of tax returns being posted for all candidates, how about medical records with all prescription drugs used?

I also would like for people serving in congress to have made a living in the private sector in which they will have to return to after their very short term "serving the public." The term "service" came about because there was a time when it was less lucrative to serve as a senator than to work in the private sector.

I guess my questions are really more specific to taxes:
Is your grievance with taxes more related to whether they are at the state vs federal level or is it more with how much we pay in taxes?


If you think less taxes should be paid, then what should be cut and/or where else should funding come from?

I think the Cajun Navy is a good example of the role that non-governmental groups can do to assist, although I don't think it's scale-able to work beyond being a supplemental group to federal aid.

The suggestions for congress are very reasonable, although there are some advantages of having less turnover in congress. In particular, the direction of the country can be really radical with short term limits, making the U.S. an unstable place where programs are created and then cut as are alliances and aid to other countries. At some point, having some stability, even if it is with a crappy situation can be better than a system where we are hot/cold/hot/cold constantly from power changing hands all the time.

Maybe giving congress term limits, but allowing them to be longer than presidential limits would be a good compromise.

I also think the Supreme Court could use some limits, particularly since they don't deal with elections at all.
 
I also would like to make it mandatory that every single voter passes the US citizenship test, and yes, I am talking about those of us born here in the states
We used to have something like that. It was part of what was used to keep black people from voting. Just look up literacy tests and such from the early 1900s.

What you are describing is in stark violation to the voting rights act.
 
I guess my questions are really more specific to taxes:
Is your grievance with taxes more related to whether they are at the state vs federal level or is it more with how much we pay in taxes?


If you think less taxes should be paid, then what should be cut and/or where else should funding come from?

I think the Cajun Navy is a good example of the role that non-governmental groups can do to assist, although I don't think it's scale-able to work beyond being a supplemental group to federal aid.

The suggestions for congress are very reasonable, although there are some advantages of having less turnover in congress. In particular, the direction of the country can be really radical with short term limits, making the U.S. an unstable place where programs are created and then cut as are alliances and aid to other countries. At some point, having some stability, even if it is with a crappy situation can be better than a system where we are hot/cold/hot/cold constantly from power changing hands all the time.

Maybe giving congress term limits, but allowing them to be longer than presidential limits would be a good compromise.

I also think the Supreme Court could use some limits, particularly since they don't deal with elections at all.

Okay, here goes. Abolish the IRS (largest renter of office space in the US) immediately. Implement a flat tax (lets just arbitrarily say 20% here) with no deductions and no low income cutoff. If you make 1 dollar this year, you owe 20 cents. In addition, those that work on W2 can have that money deducted from payroll and need not file at the end of the year.

Abolish the Department of Education - Need I really describe the level of failure here? This should be handled by individual states and be monitored for federal funds if need be, but possibly offer an incentive not for hitting some arbitrary "line in the sand" but for progress across the board. Immediately allow charter schools to open where parents can choose to send their children to their school of choice. Bussing within districts will be provided by the state so that all can attend and schools with exceptional scores that fill up will be subject to immediate funds for expansion to accommodate additional students. Poorly run schools wil close and the property can be used for one of the better run schools to expand and accommodate additional students. We also need more money in our vocational schools.

Ban all college student loans for non traditional degrees (traditional= engineering, medical, law etc) If you want a degree in women's studies or native american dance interpretation, that's cool. GET A JOB AND PAY FOR IT!

Ban additional assistance in the form of welfare and food stamps to families that are already receiving it for the first child and decide to have another child that they cannot afford. In addition, make all welfare money given to able body working age adults temporary. In other words, it runs out at some point so GET YO ASS TO WORK! And if you are already living below the poverty limit, use contraception and don't have another child. Here in La, if you get pregnant and are not married, you get a WIC check even if you are a millionaire. Sure sounds like promoting children to grow up in a single family to me.

Abolish the EPA and federal parks system. Give ownership of those lands to the citizens of the state. There are reasons why middle class neighborhoods are nicer than the projects. When people have ownership of something they are more likely to protect and preserve that asset. Who possibly could be more disinterested in property value than a government bureaucrat (except for tax purposes.) Allow the citizens and the state to prosecute those that litter or pollute these lands, If your state is too lax, you have the choice to relocate, if the state is too tough, business has the right to relocate.

Except in emergencies, congress is in session for two 3 month sessions. If you cant agree and get it done in that time, the voters will elect someone who will. 2 term limit on congressional seats and no lobbyists. Congress pays to get to and from these sessions and all business associated trips will be taken coach class. or preferrably by bus.

Go back to congress voting to send soldiers to war. In an emergency, the president can send troops to other countries, but that time is limited and if congress cannot decide, the troops get pulled back. None of this firing 25 tomahawk missiles crap. We do the damn thing or we stay the hell out of it.

When more power is given to the states (like with legalizing weed) one can choose either not to live in a state or move to a state that more fits your lifestyle.

That's about all I have for now. Please feel free to dissect, but I think I just cut billions from the budget.
 
We used to have something like that. It was part of what was used to keep black people from voting. Just look up literacy tests and such from the early 1900s.

What you are describing is in stark violation to the voting rights act.

Are you saying that black folks are too stupid to pass a test? Sure sounds like those people were.

Maybe this would be understandable in the early 1900's, but in this day and age with the theft dollars we spend on public schools, illiteracy is no excuse.

If they are illiterate, how about we spend some theft funds to teach them to read rather than accept that they can vote without educating themselves on the issues. That's what solidified the two party system that is currently shagging us rotten
 
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Its long time we started expecting people to accept some personal accountability if they expect to reap the benefits of the greatest country in the world. If you can't name the three branches of government and what their responsibilities are, you have absolutely no reason to be voting for those positions
 
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...

If they are illiterate, how about we spend some theft funds to teach them to read rather than accept that they can vote without educating themselves on the issues. ...

That's a slippery slope!
 
Okay, here goes. Abolish the IRS (largest renter of office space in the US) immediately. Implement a flat tax (lets just arbitrarily say 20% here) with no deductions and no low income cutoff. If you make 1 dollar this year, you owe 20 cents. In addition, those that work on W2 can have that money deducted from payroll and need not file at the end of the year.

Abolish the Department of Education - Need I really describe the level of failure here? This should be handled by individual states and be monitored for federal funds if need be, but possibly offer an incentive not for hitting some arbitrary "line in the sand" but for progress across the board. Immediately allow charter schools to open where parents can choose to send their children to their school of choice. Bussing within districts will be provided by the state so that all can attend and schools with exceptional scores that fill up will be subject to immediate funds for expansion to accommodate additional students. Poorly run schools wil close and the property can be used for one of the better run schools to expand and accommodate additional students. We also need more money in our vocational schools.

Ban all college student loans for non traditional degrees (traditional= engineering, medical, law etc) If you want a degree in women's studies or native american dance interpretation, that's cool. GET A JOB AND PAY FOR IT!

Ban additional assistance in the form of welfare and food stamps to families that are already receiving it for the first child and decide to have another child that they cannot afford. In addition, make all welfare money given to able body working age adults temporary. In other words, it runs out at some point so GET YO ASS TO WORK! And if you are already living below the poverty limit, use contraception and don't have another child. Here in La, if you get pregnant and are not married, you get a WIC check even if you are a millionaire. Sure sounds like promoting children to grow up in a single family to me.

Abolish the EPA and federal parks system. Give ownership of those lands to the citizens of the state. There are reasons why middle class neighborhoods are nicer than the projects. When people have ownership of something they are more likely to protect and preserve that asset. Who possibly could be more disinterested in property value than a government bureaucrat (except for tax purposes.) Allow the citizens and the state to prosecute those that litter or pollute these lands, If your state is too lax, you have the choice to relocate, if the state is too tough, business has the right to relocate.

Except in emergencies, congress is in session for two 3 month sessions. If you cant agree and get it done in that time, the voters will elect someone who will. 2 term limit on congressional seats and no lobbyists. Congress pays to get to and from these sessions and all business associated trips will be taken coach class. or preferrably by bus.

Go back to congress voting to send soldiers to war. In an emergency, the president can send troops to other countries, but that time is limited and if congress cannot decide, the troops get pulled back. None of this firing 25 tomahawk missiles crap. We do the damn thing or we stay the hell out of it.

When more power is given to the states (like with legalizing weed) one can choose either not to live in a state or move to a state that more fits your lifestyle.

That's about all I have for now. Please feel free to dissect, but I think I just cut billions from the budget.

That's a complete shift from where we are now. How do we get to what you describe? How do you convince the existing system to erode itself?
 
That's a slippery slope!

How so? I'm not suggesting that we educate them how to vote, I'm saying that we should teach them to read to better their life and have a chance to become a productive member of society. Let's face it. In the next 15 years, anyone that would have had an excuse to be illiterate will have died of old age. Then all you are left with is illiterate people who chose to be that way, and I totally support that choice, but voting in a Federal election without having any way to educate yourself is foolish. That means if those people equal 51% of the population, it's game over.

Allowing people in 2020 to elect the ruling class of a government that they know nothing about its operation or its function and responsibilities is a far slipperier slope than educating voting age adults how to read. This time we got Trump, but unlike in physics, the pendulum swings back further each time gaining momentum. Bush caused Obama, Obama caused Trump, Trump caused...?

Have you ever watched the movie "Idiocracy?" If you have not, I suggest you do. It lays this out perfectly (albeit with a fair amount of satire.)
 
That's a complete shift from where we are now. How do we get to what you describe? How do you convince the existing system to erode itself?

You will never convince the system to erode itself. You have to force them to. The government does not make those decisions, we do. Of the people, by the people and for the people. The further away we get from this, the closer we are to the brink. There are multiple historical examples to reference.
 
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How so? I'm not suggesting that we educate them how to vote, I'm saying that we should teach them to read to better their life and have a chance to become a productive member of society. Let's face it. In the next 15 years, anyone that would have had an excuse to be illiterate will have died of old age. Then all you are left with is illiterate people who chose to be that way, and I totally support that choice, but voting in a Federal election without having any way to educate yourself is foolish. That means if those people equal 51% of the population, it's game over.

Allowing people in 2020 to elect the ruling class of a government that they know nothing about its operation or its function and responsibilities is a far slipperier slope than educating voting age adults how to read. This time we got Trump, but unlike in physics, the pendulum swings back further each time gaining momentum. Bush caused Obama, Obama caused Trump, Trump caused...?

Have you ever watched the movie "Idiocracy?" If you have not, I suggest you do. It lays this out perfectly (albeit with a fair amount of satire.)

I don't disagree with any of that. It just sounds like an endorsement for publicly funded education for the purposes of the betterment of society. Pretty soon the people keep wanting more. ;)
 
You will never convince the system to erode itself. You have to force them to. The government does not make those decisions, we do. Of the people, by the people and for the people. The further away we get from this, the closer we are to the brink. There are multiple historical examples to reference.

How does one educate today's public to not rely so much on government assistance? The publicly funded schools? Was there ever a time when the general public was disciplined enough in their collective thinking to take away things they might benefit from for the sake of ideology?