A potentially simpler approach to upgrading your TJ audio

[bobthetj03]

If you're talking about the overhead rear speakers, yeah that location sucks. I have mine dialed way down. Down so far that I only need the headunits power, and they're still dialed down. It's a horrible location. I don't use mine for added bass (I may change that with different drivers and crossover values at some point), but for added spacial sense. In other words, my system sounds "bigger" overall when they are on, but you don't notice that they are, until you turn them off.

I'd suggest a subwoofer, if you don't have one, and working on the dash mounts, as they are full of open spaces that cause the little to no bass response that everyone gets from them. If you want the sound higher up at ear level, you'll need to do something other than just the dash locations.

Not to brag, but my setup works and sounds great (parked or at surface street speeds with the top down), and isn't all that expensive.

I have an 8" slimline sub in the center console, which helps a ton, but I still don't feel like I hear the full range, like a piece is missing. It sounds good, but I feel like it could be better. I have played around with the EQ settings till I felt I had a good range. None of the preset settings sounded good to me. I'm not looking for miracles, but improvement can be had. The Polk DB's are crisp and sound good. I put foam enclosures in the dash speakers with polyfill, and added some stuffing to the rear pods as well. I used to have 6.5's in the pods, but went back to 5.25's when I purchased the Polks. I can literally tell no difference between the 2 sizes, probably as a result of having to dial them down so much.

 

[skrelnik]

Awesome, I was hoping they would. 5.25 for me are just not normal. I do Commerical A/V installations so 6.5 seems more normal. This will be only the second time IBe replaced components in an automotive environment. Next I’ll swap the front 4x6 out with a larger size as well. @skrelnik what DSP do you use?

I use Audiotec-Fischer's DSP software tool. They make a bunch of amps with built in DSPs, and they are awesome if you like tuning car audio. I have their Match M 5DSP, which is a 5 channel amplifier and 7 channel DSP, then I have an Arc Audio amplifier powering two other channels, but controlled by this M 5DSP. The size of the device is only 1.3" x 3.5" x 4.3", it's not cheap but this packs a lot inside a small box.

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/product-archive/amplifiers/m-5dsp

 

[Jamison C]

and using a $20 inline tweeter to piggyback off the coaxial 5.25" speaker is a great addition

This is exactly what I did. Though I crudely RTVd it to the 5.25 pod since this all came used from my Pontiac, it still makes a world of difference in separating the highs and mids. It feels “crisp.”

 

[Airjunky]

Is it possible to fit 6.5” speakers in the 5.25” locations in the sound bar without serious modifications? I have infinity kappas currently but one is blown (not by me!) so I’m thinking of putting 6.5s so I don’t have to crank the volume up so loud.

Oh yea, they will fit. And filling the void with polyfill or old pillow stuffing will help too.

You can upgrade the dash speakers to 5.25"s with rear baffles & stuffing too.

I added a pair of inexpensive Rockville tweeters on top of the dash too. Or Jamison Cs tweeter mod would be good & out of sight.

All of this definitely helps the overall effect. More full bodied, less rattling/vibrating, separates the highs & lows, etc.

 

[TDB55]

Oh yea, they will fit. And filling the void with polyfill or old pillow stuffing will help too.

You can upgrade the dash speakers to 5.25"s with rear baffles & stuffing too.

I added a pair of inexpensive Rockville tweeters on top of the dash too. Or Jamison Cs tweeter mod would be good & out of sight.

All of this definitely helps the overall effect. More full bodied, less rattling/vibrating, separates the highs & lows, etc.

How are you wiring the tweeters? Tapping the front speaker wiring?

 

[Jamison C]

How are you wiring the tweeters? Tapping the front speaker wiring?

Yes. That’s actually how it was ran from the factory in my Pontiac. They require such little power it’s not pulling any quality from the dash speakers.

 

[darkmavis]

I’m glad I’m not alone in this venture! I can barely hear the 4x6s in the dash. I’m gonna have to check out the Audiotec-Fischer DSP; that looks way fun to work with. One other question for @Jamison-c did you have to custom cut the console to accommodate the sub?

 

[Jamison C]

I’m glad I’m not alone in this venture! I can barely hear the 4x6s in the dash. I’m gonna have to check out the Audiotec-Fischer DSP; that looks way fun to work with. One other question for @Jamison-c did you have to custom cut the console to accommodate the sub?

My Jeep came with a factory sub and box. I just had to modify the box a tad because there are some baffles behind the sub that were in the way of the new sub. You just cut them away with a dremel and the sub fits nicely. There’s lots of write ups on it if you google the mod.

 

[skrelnik]

I’m glad I’m not alone in this venture! I can barely hear the 4x6s in the dash. I’m gonna have to check out the Audiotec-Fischer DSP; that looks way fun to work with. One other question for @Jamison-c did you have to custom cut the console to accommodate the sub?

The Audiotec Fischer DSP software is software and compatible with many of their amplifiers. This M 5DSP is my third amp from them, and I sold the other two on forums. They are very easy to sell.

They are also hard to buy as there are not many distributers. If you do want to buy one you should contact Don at his audio shop, he will give you the best price. I buy a lot of my stuff through him, then either Crutchfield or Sonic Electronix.

https://unexpectedcreations.com/

 

[darkmavis]

if I put the sub in the console, I may cut a 3-4” hole and use an A/V rack fan grill to protect it be make it look like clean. I like the idea of having it closer than under the rear seat or on the rear door. Thank y’all for the suggestions on the amp and DSP!

 

[hardtopper]

I'm waiting for someone to get really crazy, like with a fake spare tire that's actually an 18" sub, ported into the cabin. Be the enclosure!

 

[89grand]

If anyone is curious, here is my setup.

My headunit is a Pioneer media player, it plays all of my music from a USB thumb drive. Headunits don't matter that much, but look for built in crossovers and front, rear and subwoofer RCA outputs.

My A-pillar speakers are these, they work fantastic. I can almost guarantee no one else uses these. They run from 320hz and up.

https://www.parts-express.com/tang-band-t1-1828s-speaker-module-5-1-4-x-2-1-8--264-947
My dash speakers are these Dayton midbass speakers. The mounting surface is completely sealed. The back is left open for good reason. These have the t/s parameters to work in this type of install. These run from 80hz to 640hz.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...uminum-cone-midbass-neo-driver-4-ohm--290-216
My sports bar speakers are Pioneer Premier 6.5", but they are turned down so low, that just about anything can be used there. They play from 80hz and up, again at low level.

My amp that runs the front is a Kicker Key 180.4. It is setup for bi-amp mode and runs the front dash mounted woofers and A-pillar wide bands. It has built in DSP and I used the provided mic to do time alignment, auto eq and auto crossover adjustments. It works great and is very small.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079K3ZGR5/?tag=wranglerorg-20

My subwoofer is a Rockville RW10CA. This thing is surprising. It looks like a swap meet POS, but actually performs pretty well. It's mounted to my tail gate.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019Z3R582/?tag=wranglerorg-20

My car has better equipment, but this is a noisy Jeep, so I used what I needed to, and nothing more. It sounds quite good. Better than any headunit, front and sound bar coaxial setup by far.

 

[TDB55]

Oh yea, they will fit. And filling the void with polyfill or old pillow stuffing will help too.

You can upgrade the dash speakers to 5.25"s with rear baffles & stuffing too.

I added a pair of inexpensive Rockville tweeters on top of the dash too. Or Jamison Cs tweeter mod would be good & out of sight.

All of this definitely helps the overall effect. More full bodied, less rattling/vibrating, separates the highs & lows, etc.

How did you put baffles and stuffing behind the front speakers? I put new speakers in a few months ago hurriedly but don’t remember what it looked like behind the speakers.

 

[Airjunky]

How did you put baffles and stuffing behind the front speakers? I put new speakers in a few months ago hurriedly but don’t remember what it looked like behind the speakers.

Use those cloth baffles you can scrunch into any space. I stuffed a little old pillow stuffing in there too. Supposed to make the speakers project forward better, more full sound, etc. Made more difference in the sound bar than the dash, and huge overall.

The Install Bay IBBAF55 5" to 5.25" Foam Car Audio Speaker Baffle (Pair) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N4DP5Y7/?tag=wranglerorg-20

 

[89grand]

I hate to say it, but those foam baffles really won't do much, nor does polyfill. I've tried the polyfill before and all it did was collect dust back there. The biggest issue the stock dash speakers have, is that the mount is full of gaping holes, and that leads to bass cancellation because the rear sound waves from the speaker interact with the front. Not unlike holding a speaker in your hand and playing it. It will have no bass.

If you use a small sealed pod, it eliminates the front to rear sound wave cancellation, but then restricts the speakers ability to make bass because it's too small, so you end up with excessive upper bass, which not only sounds bad, it also gives the impression of no lower bass.

The absolute simplest and most effective approach, baring something very complex, is to simply seal the front of the mounting surface and do nothing behind the speaker. This works, and works very well in comparison to anything else I've tried.

As the mount is from the factory, you can see how the rear wave can and does cancel out the front wave, causing very weak bass.

And then below, you can see how I sealed the mounting surface, and the bass is dramatically improved. There is nothing going on behind the speaker at all. Just the mounting surface is sealed off, and this prevents the rear sound waves from negatively impacting the front wave.

 

[darkmavis]

That’s a great idea of sealing the space off, it will act somewhat of a backcan and result in better sound quality

 

[Damageinc]

This is very important. My perspective of “good” may differ dramatically from yours, or Jerry’s. But how do you find the right speaker for a factory system?



This is key. Matching impedance and RMS ratings are vital to making sure a head unit and speakers function together within their optimal range. But how do you pick the right speaker if you don’t know what the factory head unit is pushing? (Assuming you’re like me and want to retain the factory look). Only way to accurately find that out is to hook it up to a dyno and I doubt anyone has done that with a factory Chrysler radio.

I believe most factory radios push 2ohms instead of 4. I would imagine they don’t push more then 20W so it wouldn’t surprise me if the factory TJ radio was pushing 10W RMS/2ohms or less. Any premium system is going to have a proprietary factory amp.

Hi, I just bought the Sony Mex xb120bt head unit paired with a sound storm lopro8 sub and was thinking 5.25 kicker front and 6.5 Polk sound pod. Any thoughts on that combo.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_158XB...fwR-MOiOtN5fZFTWc7OkCmg7o72OKk6QaAgdfEALw_wcBhttps://www.sonicelectronix.com/ite...jqG6cWiotLpWCvQ4z2opQ_lIRAbXpwrQaAgymEALw_wcBhttps://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DB652/Polk-Audio-DB-652.htmlhttps://www.crutchfield.com/p_20646CC54/Kicker-46CSC54.html

 

[Airjunky]

Hi, I just bought the Sony Mex xb120bt head unit paired with a sound storm lopro8 sub and was thinking 5.25 kicker front and 6.5 Polk sound pod. Any thoughts on that combo.
https://www.sonicelectronix.com/ite...jqG6cWiotLpWCvQ4z2opQ_lIRAbXpwrQaAgymEALw_wcB

I tried a similar Soundstorm compact sub in another truck and ended up sending it back. I have a pair of Kickers in there now and have a lot more boom.
Bottom line....get a full return warranty no matter which one you try.
As for the baffles and stuffing, I agree that it won't help nearly as much as a solid enclosure. But knowing that that wasn't possible in the TJ, I decided to try it anyway considering the cost. I was really surprised in the end.

 

[89grand]

You don't need a full enclosure, in fact, it's better not having one as it would need to be too big, and most car speakers are not designed to be in an enclosure anyway, just a decent sized space the seals the front of the speaker from the back, like a car door, rear deck or dash location.

In the Jeep, the dash location has big gaps around the mounting surface, and that causes a lot of bass cancellation because the rear sound waves interact with the front. If you seal up the mounting surface, the rear wave cannot do this because the rear sound waves cannot wrap around to the front of the speakers and instead is redirected back towards the firewall. One doesn't need foam baffles, polyfill, or tiny enclosures, you just need to seal off the mounting surface, and that's it. It's even easier than doing the other stuff that doesn't really work.

I made up this cheesy graphic, but hopefully it can illustrate why sealing the dash baffle works, and why not doing it causes weak bass response in these Jeeps. The red is the front sound waves. The green is from the the rear of the speaker and is 180 degrees out of phase from the front sound waves.

 

[ubicorn]

You don't need a full enclosure, in fact, it's better not having one as it would need to be too big, and most car speakers are not designed to be in an enclosure anyway, just a decent sized space the seals the front of the speaker from the back, like a car door, rear deck or dash location.

In the Jeep, the dash location has big gaps around the mounting surface, and that causes a lot of bass cancellation because the rear sound waves interact with the front. If you seal up the mounting surface, the rear wave cannot do this because the rear sound waves cannot wrap around to the front of the speakers and instead is redirected back towards the firewall. One doesn't need foam baffles, polyfill, or tiny enclosures, you just need to seal off the mounting surface, and that's it. It's even easier than doing the other stuff that doesn't really work.

I made up this cheesy graphic, but hopefully it can illustrate why sealing the dash baffle works, and why not doing it causes weak bass response in these Jeeps. The red is the front sound waves. The green is from the the rear of the speaker and is 180 degrees out of phase from the front sound waves.

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I appreciated all of your posts on this topic. I was going to get new speakers but I am going to start here instead. I don't need terrific sound, just a bit better than what I have now. This was very helpful.