All things welding
- Thread starter AirborneTexasRanger
- Start date
I've only used the muriatic acid on clear zinc, since RoHS started the process of making yellow zinc extinct. My main personal concern isn't zinc contamination of the weld, it's health. The zinc oxide gas generated is not good to breath, and that's of particular concern to me.
Possibly TMI: My father and his brother both died horrible deaths from ideopathic pulmonary fibrosis, which causes lung tissue to degrade over time and stop pulling oxygen from the air into the blood. Those with it gradually suffocate to death. Ideopathic means they don't know what causes it. Because two siblings died from it, they were both in a long-term study at the University of Denver, as are myself and my two brothers, as the second generation (fortunately, none of us has any symptoms, yet.) The researchers there are working through a theory that a particular gene sequence is required, but something environmental triggers it. They are close to identifying the gene sequence, but the environmental triggers are still a mystery. For that reason, I'm very careful with keeping odd things out of my lungs. I saw him tortured trying to breath the last six months of his life, and I'm doing everything I can to die some other way...
It's funny because the fumes from muriatic acid aren't exactly healthy, either. But at least with that, I can do is outside, and I just set the part in the acid and walk away for a few minutes.
since you said the environmental triggers are still a mystery I take it there's no big obvious thing they had in common, like both smoking cigarettes for decades or both having careers as fabricators.
My dad is on amiodarone for a-fib, which has pulmonary fibrosis as a side effect so he's been under close watch to make sure he's one of the lucky ones that don't seem to be affected. He'll probably stop at any sign of it, as he's only 73 (his mom is still kicking it at 97) and living with A-fib would be steeply preferable to suffocating.
Stay healthy man, nobody can look out for your health as well as you can.
They both were in the Korean War. They both worked at a paper mill, but in totally different areas/roles. And they both tore down a building by hand for side money when they were in their late teens/early twenties, and that building was likely loaded with asbestos. Neither smoked, although my father occasionally smoked cigars, but there's not a lot of inhaling of smoke with those, I understand (I've never partaken). Fortunately, I only have one of those in common with them. I worked summers in the same paper mill while in college (great money!) So, a total of 9 months in the mill, compared to 35 years for each of them. I pray every day that I don't show symptoms. I have other health issues, but only the pulmonary fibrosis really puts the fear of God into me, as they say...
Thanks - it's appreciated. Life is short!
Some small tacks/welds. The muriatic acid worked really well on the zinc, I wasn't expecting so much effervescence though!
This was my first one. I took a grinding disc to the sides of the nut I was welding. I torqued my track bar bolt to 130 ft/lbs (MC specs). The tacks held, but my bolt stripped at 100ish ft/lbs. When backing the bolt out with the impact, the tacks broke free. My welder volts were setting "D" and wire speed was 8.
![20240302_171714[1].jpg](https://wranglertjforum.com/attachments/20240302_171714-1-jpg.506586/ "20240302_171714[1].jpg")
![20240302_171728[1].jpg](https://wranglertjforum.com/attachments/20240302_171728-1-jpg.506587/ "20240302_171728[1].jpg")
Built another one with a piece of scrap and this time used the muriatic acid. This one held together and I was able to get to 130 ft/lbs. Same settings, Volts on "D" and wire speed at 8.
![20240303_160540[1].jpg](https://wranglertjforum.com/attachments/20240303_160540-1-jpg.506588/ "20240303_160540[1].jpg")
![20240303_160609[1].jpg](https://wranglertjforum.com/attachments/20240303_160609-1-jpg.506589/ "20240303_160609[1].jpg")
I will say that even though it is a small welder with limitations, it is nice having a piece of equipment that I can do something like this on and not have to worry about buying a new flag nut or trying to find someone else that can help.
This was my first one. I took a grinding disc to the sides of the nut I was welding. I torqued my track bar bolt to 130 ft/lbs (MC specs). The tacks held, but my bolt stripped at 100ish ft/lbs. When backing the bolt out with the impact, the tacks broke free. My welder volts were setting "D" and wire speed was 8.
Built another one with a piece of scrap and this time used the muriatic acid. This one held together and I was able to get to 130 ft/lbs. Same settings, Volts on "D" and wire speed at 8.
I will say that even though it is a small welder with limitations, it is nice having a piece of equipment that I can do something like this on and not have to worry about buying a new flag nut or trying to find someone else that can help.
Yeah, zinc is highly reactive and loves the chlorine in the acid!
I'm waiting for the welding experts to chime in, but your welds look too
Edited to correct an error.
Last edited:
OP
Correct, but I think you meant convex. Voltage is too low or wire feed speed is too high. Also could be you're moving too fast or the zinc is preventing fusion. IIRC "D" is the highest voltage setting? Try lowering your wire speed & tack the full length of the side of the nut instead of just a small spot.
Yes, D is the highest voltage setting. Will play with wire speed a bit.
OP
In case anyone was wondering, this is what happens when your settings are too low or you're moving too fast. This particular butt weld was made on 2 pieces of aluminum at approximately 100A & I moved really fast. For reference, this thickness is usually welded around 130-140A. I should have snapped a pick of the weld before I broke it but I forgot. You can see half of the weld in the first pic. Appearance wise it's not terrible, a little cold but that's what I was going for & I had difficulty keeping that pace.
Anyway, that bottom picture you can see that the base metal & weld metal did not fuse together. Actually the base metal didn't even melt into the weld at all. The weld just sits there on top. Both sides were welded, but I ground down one side so I can break it at the joint easier but clearly even 2 passes was not enough heat to fuse the plates together. You wont have this drastic difference with steel because aluminum cools faster because it dissipates the heat better than steel, but it's a lot easier to demonstrate this with aluminum. A lot of people don't see a cross section of a weld so I thought this might help some people.
Anyway, that bottom picture you can see that the base metal & weld metal did not fuse together. Actually the base metal didn't even melt into the weld at all. The weld just sits there on top. Both sides were welded, but I ground down one side so I can break it at the joint easier but clearly even 2 passes was not enough heat to fuse the plates together. You wont have this drastic difference with steel because aluminum cools faster because it dissipates the heat better than steel, but it's a lot easier to demonstrate this with aluminum. A lot of people don't see a cross section of a weld so I thought this might help some people.
OP
OP
Not too bad, but here's my honest feedback
First picture: Excellent fusion, a little too much wire. Most likely moving to slow
Second picture: Excellent fusion, way too much wire. Definitely moving too slow
Third picture: Don't whip & pause vertical. Straight drag up & watch the sides for fusion
Fourth picture: Excellent fusion, a little too much wire. Most likely moving to slow
Fifth picture: Some fusion, but again don't whip & pause vertical. Slight side to side motion just to get fusion on the sides.
I could probably tell you more if I saw the back side and you break them & give me a clean picture of the break
First picture: Excellent fusion, a little too much wire. Most likely moving to slow
Second picture: Excellent fusion, way too much wire. Definitely moving too slow
Third picture: Don't whip & pause vertical. Straight drag up & watch the sides for fusion
Fourth picture: Excellent fusion, a little too much wire. Most likely moving to slow
Fifth picture: Some fusion, but again don't whip & pause vertical. Slight side to side motion just to get fusion on the sides.
I could probably tell you more if I saw the back side and you break them & give me a clean picture of the break
Well. The weld didn't break 
Backside
Placed it in the vise and repeatedly twisted with a pair of channel locks. The coupon itself tore just before the weld.
I'll try and cut it it in half with a cut off wheel tomorrow
Backside
Placed it in the vise and repeatedly twisted with a pair of channel locks. The coupon itself tore just before the weld.
I'll try and cut it it in half with a cut off wheel tomorrow
OP
Well. The weld didn't break
Backside
View attachment 506758
Placed it in the vise and repeatedly twisted with a pair of channel locks. The coupon itself tore just before the weld.
View attachment 506759
I'll try and cut it it in half with a cut off wheel tomorrow
The base metal is supposed to break first. I just wondered how it would break & if the weld broke first I could identify any problems.
Your penetration looks really good, except for that little bit towards the end of the weld on the backside. If I had to guess I'd say you had a tack there which takes a bit more voltage to melt the thicker metal from the tack.
You done good tworley
That's exactly what it was too, a tack before I placed it in the vise to fully weld. Thanks!
OP
Spatter/Buck Shot/BBs, whatever you wanna call it will tell you a lot about how you're welding. The two most common causes of spatter are how you hold the gun & machine settings, but unclean base metal can also contribute. I can't stress enough that clean metal is essential for quality welds. I usually grab a flap disc &grind away any coatings on both sides & the back at least ½” - 1" depending on the thickness. For thinner material I also grind the backside because the heat will pull these contaminants into the weld puddle.
What causes the spatter is the force of the arc pushing molten metal out of the weld puddle. If you put too much of an angle when you're welding it will kick out a bunch of large droplets typically shot out in the direction the nozzle is pointing that you can usually see while you're welding. Easy fix, just bring your gun back to more of a perpendicular angle to the weld. If you've got a bunch of smaller specks of spatter all over the place then your arc is most likely unstable. No problem, there's a few easy things you can check. The nozzle could be clogged up with spatter which prevents the shielding gas from doing it's job. The contact tip could be worn out or loose which will cause fluctuations in the amperage. The wire could be feeding erratically so check that the drive wheels aren't too tight or too loose. Check to see if the wire roll is dirty & while you've got the lid open check to see if the connections are dirty as well. Make sure your ground clamp is connected properly both at the machine & to a clean metal spot on the work piece. All of these things cause the amperage to fluctuate & they're relatively easy to diagnose & fix.
If none of those things are the issue then start to check the settings. Typically spatter occurs when voltage is too low or amperage is too high. I keep a slide rule I got with my first machine which will get me in the ball park of good settings Welder Settings Guide. If you are trying to fine tune the setting, then only adjust either amps or volts but not both at the same time. Run a couple of passes on a scrap piece. If you are still getting a shit load of spatter then it is most likely you. Pay attention to the distance from the weld gun & the weld puddle. Too far away can cause the arc to move around & the shielding gas isn't doing its job either. If I'm being honest, the person welding is most likely the problem, but I can help you fix that.
Getting rid of spatter can be a pain in the ass too. Typically I use a chipping hammer, but I should mention that even though its called a hammer, you don't use it like one. It works better by scraping like a spatula. In hard to reach areas you can use a burr bit, metal putty knife, cold chisel or even a file.
The other thing about spatter is that it gets EVERYWHERE. It will find its way into every little nook & cranny then try to start fires. It also likes to get into the creases of your clothes or down your shirt, up your sleeve & sometimes it will burn right through your clothes and leave a nice little blister to remind you to wear your PPE. If you get spatter on a tattoo it will burn through the ink & you'll need a tough up...ask me how I know.
What causes the spatter is the force of the arc pushing molten metal out of the weld puddle. If you put too much of an angle when you're welding it will kick out a bunch of large droplets typically shot out in the direction the nozzle is pointing that you can usually see while you're welding. Easy fix, just bring your gun back to more of a perpendicular angle to the weld. If you've got a bunch of smaller specks of spatter all over the place then your arc is most likely unstable. No problem, there's a few easy things you can check. The nozzle could be clogged up with spatter which prevents the shielding gas from doing it's job. The contact tip could be worn out or loose which will cause fluctuations in the amperage. The wire could be feeding erratically so check that the drive wheels aren't too tight or too loose. Check to see if the wire roll is dirty & while you've got the lid open check to see if the connections are dirty as well. Make sure your ground clamp is connected properly both at the machine & to a clean metal spot on the work piece. All of these things cause the amperage to fluctuate & they're relatively easy to diagnose & fix.
If none of those things are the issue then start to check the settings. Typically spatter occurs when voltage is too low or amperage is too high. I keep a slide rule I got with my first machine which will get me in the ball park of good settings Welder Settings Guide. If you are trying to fine tune the setting, then only adjust either amps or volts but not both at the same time. Run a couple of passes on a scrap piece. If you are still getting a shit load of spatter then it is most likely you. Pay attention to the distance from the weld gun & the weld puddle. Too far away can cause the arc to move around & the shielding gas isn't doing its job either. If I'm being honest, the person welding is most likely the problem, but I can help you fix that.
Getting rid of spatter can be a pain in the ass too. Typically I use a chipping hammer, but I should mention that even though its called a hammer, you don't use it like one. It works better by scraping like a spatula. In hard to reach areas you can use a burr bit, metal putty knife, cold chisel or even a file.
The other thing about spatter is that it gets EVERYWHERE. It will find its way into every little nook & cranny then try to start fires. It also likes to get into the creases of your clothes or down your shirt, up your sleeve & sometimes it will burn right through your clothes and leave a nice little blister to remind you to wear your PPE. If you get spatter on a tattoo it will burn through the ink & you'll need a tough up...ask me how I know.
I also use ear pro to keep spatter from getting in the ear. Not pleasant.